Why would someone choose a Protestant Religion over Catholicism?

[rinnie]

I think we are ignoring some elephants in the room…

1. Vatican II caused a major upheaval in the Church. For many families who had been Catholic for many generations, “everything that was nailed down was coming loose.”
   Many older people could not make the change; there was no longer a strong faith being lived out in the home. Children began to drift.
2. The abuse scandals have shaken many to their very foundation. They reasoned: “How could one have faith in a Church that allowed this to happen for as long and and on as massive a scale as it did?”

I know that those two things drove families into Protestant Churches. I was a Protestant Pastor and received Catholics into our churches for over 40 years. I remember their stories clearly.

What does Vatican II have to do with People and how they live out their life in their homes? God never changed his commandments nor did Vat.II.

And what does the abuse of fallen Priests have to do with God and his Church? If what you are saying is true, which believe me I know it is, but my point is show me the perfect group of People in this world because you won’t find them.

Tell me this, where do I find Christ outside of the Eucharist outside of the CC?

 

[rinnie]

I can only answer your question from personal experience and not theoretically.

My 2 brothers and their wives left The Church in the late 90s and joined one of those mega-churches founded by 2 guys (non-practicing) from Harvard Business School who decided to create churches based on what people wanted. For instance, they have a Starbucks style coffee bar when you come in and you can take your mocha frappacinos and carmel lattes into the service. They kick back and get entertained for a couple hours in a big amphitheater, where Christian pop bands perform and a lively, likable, good-looking preacher challenges them with easy to follow/how-to instructions for applying biblical messages to middle-class daily problems.

The congregation is broken up into small groups known as “smile groups” (don’t ask me) where they meet in each other’s homes several times a month for potluck, fellowship, advice and support. They have small groups for women, men, those overcoming addiction, they allow divorce and have groups for divorced people to help them find a “good Christian guy or gal,” they employ Christian auto-mechanics who will fix your car and give you an honest estimate, if you’re out of work, they offer job placement services.

I asked them why they left Holy Mother Church and they said that, for them, Sunday Mass felt like nothing more than punching a time card, click…I went, and that was that. At their new church they have instant community of like minded people who want to “truly live the Gospel” and support each other. I guess it never dawned on them that they could have found all of the above, in different ways, in The Church, but that would take work, the hard work of study, prayer and sacrifice. No, this is the easy American Way. Though, I will say, pastors don’t often encourage or challenge their parishioners to learn during the week on their own or grow in their prayer lives.

Other people I have met who choose Protestant churches over Catholic are those who take issue with the moral teaching of The Church. This type quite frequently ends up in the Episcopal/Anglican church where they can get Catholic-style worship, without the dogma and moral teaching.

One silly woman I met told me she would never join the Catholic Church because “the priests drink from gold goblets.” When I explained that we use precious metals because we believe communion to be the actual body and blood of Our Lord, she shrugged, nothing would change her mind.

Those are just a few examples I have encountered over the years.

Now you hit the nail on the head, what People WANT not what People NEED. This is exactly what Christ tells us in scripture.

Christ said his people are not of this world if you love the world this is not your world. This is a great example of his teaching.

Christ set up the CC not people. Christ is not wanted in this world anymore today then he was when he walked this earth.

But there are the chosen people the few who do Love him and want him and will obey his word. But when you live the way of Christ you must rid yourself of the ways of the world.

Back to my point. Do we want what PEOPLE want or what CHRIST wants. The church you gave an example of is exactly that. Like going to a concert or something

 

[tabbey48]

What does Vatican II have to do with People and how they live out their life in their homes? God never changed his commandments nor did Vat.II.

And what does the abuse of fallen Priests have to do with God and his Church? If what you are saying is true, which believe me I know it is, but my point is show me the perfect group of People in this world because you won’t find them.

Tell me this, where do I find Christ outside of the Eucharist outside of the CC?

I was telling you what I heard.

1. After Vatican II, there were people who disagreed with the changes that were made. Their children were not raised in the fervent Catholic homes of the past. As a result, they felt empty and went searching for meaningful faith experiences.
2. We are not talking about a “perfect” group of people–there is no such thing. But the magnitude of the abuse of children by clergy and religious inside the Catholic Church cannot be dismissed by honest people. It may have caused proper safeguards to be put in place at last; but a lot of damage was done inside and outside of the Church.
3. Christ may be found many places other than in the Eucharist. But I understand your point. And it is because I became convinced of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, among other important doctrines, that I came into the Catholic Church at the very worst point of the scandals. Despite its surface blemishes, I saw the true beauty of The Church.

 

[CMatt25]

When you die, you find out the truth anyway. I don’t know, it’s a touchy subject.

Hawkheart, so as a Lutheran MO synod believer, you believe too we will meet Jesus, Whom called Himself the Truth, when we die or He returns for His 2nd Coming, whichever comes first? God bless you on your journey with and to Him. Peace

 

[CMatt25]

What does Vatican II have to do with People and how they live out their life in their homes? God never changed his commandments nor did Vat.II.

And what does the abuse of fallen Priests have to do with God and his Church? If what you are saying is true, which believe me I know it is, but my point is show me the perfect group of People in this world because you won’t find them.

Tell me this, where do I find Christ outside of the Eucharist outside of the CC?

Hi Rinnie, I’m not sure when changes took effect such as the Sat vigil being put in place to satisfy the commandment to keep holy the Sabbath Day. Or changes to the obligatory abstinance days at least in the US from every Fri of the yr to only Ash Wed and Good Fri. I’m not certain of the obligations outside the US. But I had Catholic relatives who had difficulty with such changes. I know this is not the same as folks leaving the practice of the faith due to changes but it merely addresses changes.

As far as the scandal, I think the even greater problem some had/have was more with Apostolic successors moving such priests to other parishes. Yes of course no one is perfect. The original Apostles including Peter were not. But something many have trouble with is that members of the hierarchy or Apostolic successors while preaching the sanctity of life couldn’t then know better than not to engage in whatever role they played. Cardinal Law for instance comes to my mind. Many believe not perfection, but still a higher standard on this should have been expected when the Church calls Herself the one and only true Church of Christ.

In a way I guess maybe it’s sorta like with the Reformation when some folks thought if the Church could be wrong for instance on indulgences or whatever, what else might they be wrong about?

You don’t have to agree but I hope this at least helps you understand a bit the possible thinking of others on the matter. Peace to you Rinnie!

 

[Hawkheart]

Hawkheart, so as a Lutheran MO synod believer, you believe too we will meet Jesus, Whom called Himself the Truth, when we die or He returns for His 2nd Coming, whichever comes first? God bless you on your journey with and to Him. Peace

Thank you

 

[SteveGC]

Hawkheart, so as a Lutheran MO synod believer, you believe too we will meet Jesus, Whom called Himself the Truth, when we die or He returns for His 2nd Coming, whichever comes first? God bless you on your journey with and to Him. Peace

What Christians do you know of that don’t believe this? Just asking, because you seem to suggest that the others participating in this thread may not believe this, or atleast pleasantly surprised to find one among us that does.

 

[CMatt25]

What Christians do you know of that don’t believe this? Just asking, because you seem to suggest that the others participating in this thread may not believe this, or atleast pleasantly surprised to find one among us that does.

Well my SDA Christian friend for instance believes Christ is Lord and Savior and believes He sacrificed on the cross for us all, yet doesn’t believe we will meet Him at death but will at His 2nd coming.

But that totally aside, so not to turn this into whether SDAs are Christian or not. I was merely responding to Hawkheart saying “when you die, you find out the truth anyway. I don’t know, it’s a touchy subject.”

And I agreed.

If we believe Jesus is the Truth as He told us, then we will find it out.

Peace and God bless you and each of us striving for the truth. :grouphug:

 

[rinnie]

I was telling you what I heard.

1. After Vatican II, there were people who disagreed with the changes that were made. Their children were not raised in the fervent Catholic homes of the past. As a result, they felt empty and went searching for meaningful faith experiences.
2. We are not talking about a “perfect” group of people–there is no such thing. But the magnitude of the abuse of children by clergy and religious inside the Catholic Church cannot be dismissed by honest people. It may have caused proper safeguards to be put in place at last; but a lot of damage was done inside and outside of the Church.
3. Christ may be found many places other than in the Eucharist. But I understand your point. And it is because I became convinced of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, among other important doctrines, that I came into the Catholic Church at the very worst point of the scandals. Despite its surface blemishes, I saw the true beauty of The Church.

God Bless you.

 

[rinnie]

Hi Rinnie, I’m not sure when changes took effect such as the Sat vigil being put in place to satisfy the commandment to keep holy the Sabbath Day. Or changes to the obligatory abstinance days at least in the US from every Fri of the yr to only Ash Wed and Good Fri. I’m not certain of the obligations outside the US. But I had Catholic relatives who had difficulty with such changes. I know this is not the same as folks leaving the practice of the faith due to changes but it merely addresses changes.

As far as the scandal, I think the even greater problem some had/have was more with Apostolic successors moving such priests to other parishes. Yes of course no one is perfect. The original Apostles including Peter were not. But something many have trouble with is that members of the hierarchy or Apostolic successors while preaching the sanctity of life couldn’t then know better than not to engage in whatever role they played. Cardinal Law for instance comes to my mind. Many believe not perfection, but still a higher standard on this should have been expected when the Church calls Herself the one and only true Church of Christ.

In a way I guess maybe it’s sorta like with the Reformation when some folks thought if the Church could be wrong for instance on indulgences or whatever, what else might they be wrong about?

You don’t have to agree but I hope this at least helps you understand a bit the possible thinking of others on the matter. Peace to you Rinnie!

I guess I am having a problem with the Church being wrong on indulgences. If they were wrong to offer indulgences then they are still wrong, because we still have them.

There was some wrong in the selling of indulgences but the indulgences themselves were always a teaching and always will be.

But yes I understand that because the leaders of the Church made mistakes on personal levels the Church paid the price for their sins.

But lets remember that Christ is the head of the Church and although he gives the power of the Holy Spirit to the Priests, Bishops. Pope etc. does not mean they can also fall from his grace and fall into sin with their free will also.

I agree that they are held to a higher standard and should be and have let us down in the past. But you will find that with every human.

That is why we are taught to NEVER put your faith in Humans they will let you down every time. Put your faith in Christ and the teachings of the Catholic Church, not the actions of the people in the CC.

 

[rinnie]

Well my SDA Christian friend for instance believes Christ is Lord and Savior and believes He sacrificed on the cross for us all, yet doesn’t believe we will meet Him at death but will at His 2nd coming.

But that totally aside, so not to turn this into whether SDAs are Christian or not. I was merely responding to Hawkheart saying “when you die, you find out the truth anyway. I don’t know, it’s a touchy subject.”

And I agreed.

If we believe Jesus is the Truth as He told us, then we will find it out.

Peace and God bless you and each of us striving for the truth. :grouphug:

I think everyone who accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior are Christians. But the problem is believing and living what you believe. We all seem to fall short at times here.

Especially you Matt I am SO KIDDING!!

 

[Martin12]

I’ve never been Protestant, and I’m only college age, so maybe someone here can help me understand something.

When I hear my Protestant friends talk about what their Church/Religion believes and how it works, it seems to be very disorganized and unclear.

There usually isn’t a central book, like the catechism, where people can go to learn about their Church’s theology.

There isn’t a central figure, like the Pope, that is actively speaking on behalf of the Church to many leaders of countries and organizations.

There usually isn’t a uniform doctrine and liturgy that connects the different churches together.

Overall, I just get a feeling that there isn’t much advice/guidelines that the Church gives for everyday life.

---

Now you know why there are over 40,000 protestant sects!
It seems that there is the Pastor’s sermon, and that’s about it.

I’m sorry if I wrote this in an insensitive way. I’m having trouble articulating my thoughts and it results in them sounding rather rude.

 

[CMatt25]

There was some wrong in the selling of indulgences but the indulgences themselves were always a teaching and always will be.

That is why we are taught to NEVER put your faith in Humans they will let you down every time. Put your faith in Christ and the teachings of the Catholic Church, not the actions of the people in the CC.

Rinnie, of course I fall short but I had faith you would know by being wrong on indulgences that I was referring to the selling of them.

I believe it also could be why we were taught by their fruits we would know them.

In any case Rinnie, peace!

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie, of course I fall short but I had faith you would know by being wrong on indulgences that I was referring to the selling of them.

I believe it also could be why we were taught by their fruits we would know them.

In any case Rinnie, peace!

You know I was messing with you matt. I see your faith and deisre to live the best you can. You are a great person.

But I wasn’t sure you understood that the Church was not wrong on indulgences it was like any other thing a human made a mistake.

But remember it was not the Church that made the mistake in a teaching. The teaching of indulgences is true and still is.

But that is my point, People continue to show us how our human leaders have failed, or given into sin, we don’t deny this. SHow us where the Church has failed to bring us to the fullness of the truth.

That is where People seem to forget that Christ is leading the RCC. IT told us that the CHURCH is the Pilar of all Truth. The CHurch is not led by the Pope it is led through the Pope and Bishops by the Power of the Holy Spirit.

What someone anyone needs to show me, where did Christ say the truth is found OUTSIDE of his Church?

 

[CMatt25]

You know I was messing with you matt. I see your faith and deisre to live the best you can. You are a great person.

But I wasn’t sure you understood that the Church was not wrong on indulgences it was like any other thing a human made a mistake.

But remember it was not the Church that made the mistake in a teaching. The teaching of indulgences is true and still is.

But that is my point, People continue to show us how our human leaders have failed, or given into sin, we don’t deny this. SHow us where the Church has failed to bring us to the fullness of the truth.

That is where People seem to forget that Christ is leading the RCC. IT told us that the CHURCH is the Pilar of all Truth. The CHurch is not led by the Pope it is led through the Pope and Bishops by the Power of the Holy Spirit.

What someone anyone needs to show me, where did Christ say the truth is found OUTSIDE of his Church?

I knew you were messin Rinnie. Thank you for your kind words. I feel relieved because if I am ever in your neck of the woods, now I have some faith though know with not quite 100% absolute certainty that I won’t be scalped! You’re not a bad person yourself btw.

I totally understand what you are saying, but not all Christians have your faith in how the inside of His Church is defined.

God bless you Rinnie with peace.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

But that is my point, People continue to show us how our human leaders have failed, or given into sin, we don’t deny this. SHow us where the Church has failed to bring us to the fullness of the truth. And show me a church where the leaders have not failed…it may not be as public but certainly no denomination can realistically say that one or more of their leaders has not failed at one point or another.

That is where People seem to forget that Christ is leading the RCC. IT told us that the CHURCH is the Pilar of all Truth. The CHurch is not led by the Pope it is led through the Pope and Bishops by the Power of the Holy Spirit.

What someone anyone needs to show me, where did Christ say the truth is found OUTSIDE of his Church?

 

[tabbey48]

Annabelle_Marie:
The OP asked Why would someone choose a Protestant Religion over Catholism?

The failure of one or more leaders cannot be compared to a world-wide scandal that involves priests and Church leaders abusing children. This has damaged the faith of some Catholics, causing them to leave the Church. Some of them went to Protestant Churches and are very anti-Catholic. I personally know some of these people.

That the Catholic Church is “the pillar of truth” is believed only by Roman Catholics and those in sympathy with them. Christians who do not believe this are likely to choose a Protestant Church.

 

[Califman831]

Pope Innocent III (A.D. 1198 – 1216): “With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved.”

Saint Cyprian (died A.D. 258): “He who has turned his back on the Church of Christ shall not come to the rewards of Christ; he is an alien, a worldling, an enemy. You cannot have God for your Father if you have not the Church for your mother. Our Lord warns us when He says: `he that is not with Me is against Me, and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth.’ Whosoever breaks the peace and harmony of Christ acts against Christ; whoever gathers elsewhere than in the Church scatters the Church of Christ.” (Unity of the Catholic Church )

Pope Pius XI (A.D. 1922 – 1939): “The Catholic Church alone is keeping the true worship. This is the font of truth, this is the house of faith, this is the temple of God; if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation….Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ, no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors.” (Encyclical, Mortalium Animos )

 

[tabbey48]

Pope Innocent III (A.D. 1198 – 1216): “With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved.”

Saint Cyprian (died A.D. 258): “He who has turned his back on the Church of Christ shall not come to the rewards of Christ; he is an alien, a worldling, an enemy. You cannot have God for your Father if you have not the Church for your mother. Our Lord warns us when He says: `he that is not with Me is against Me, and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth.’ Whosoever breaks the peace and harmony of Christ acts against Christ; whoever gathers elsewhere than in the Church scatters the Church of Christ.” (Unity of the Catholic Church )

Pope Pius XI (A.D. 1922 – 1939): “The Catholic Church alone is keeping the true worship. This is the font of truth, this is the house of faith, this is the temple of God; if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation….Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ, no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors.” (Encyclical, Mortalium Animos )

The quotes by Pope Innocent III & Pope Pius XI are what they are: Roman Catholic Popes claiming that their Church is the true Church. Catholic people accept what they say; Protestants do not.

The quote by Saint Cyprian might also be accepted by Protestants who believe that they are a part of the Church of Christ (or the catholic/universal church).

 

[Califman831]

The quotes by Pope Innocent III & Pope Pius XI are what they are: Roman Catholic Popes claiming that their Church is the true Church. Catholic people accept what they say; Protestants do not. [/qoute]

Unfortunately for proties they will have a rude awakening at the second coming. The Popes, the successors of st peter, have spoken and as faithful Catholics we must abide by their valid teachings.

The quote by Saint Cyprian might also be accepted by Protestants who believe that they are a part of the Church of Christ (or the catholic/universal church).