Why wouldn't God give Satan and the demons a second chance? while we are forgiven 70x7 times?

[janiruchan]

Why wouldn’t God give Satan and the demons a second chance? while we humans are forgiven 70x7 times? (always given chances)

While this greatly humbles me as I sin an awful lot everyday…but Im so loved by God. I feel so sad for the demons…and feel unworthy of such grace. Why cant they be given another chance? ( I took this reflection from a meditation on St. Ignatius’ Spiritual exercises)…would it be possible for the demons to be forgiven?

 

[1ke]

Their will is fixed.

I suggest Frank Sheed’s Theology for Beginners. Excellent book.

 

[Sarcelle]

I know this explanation falls under private revelation but here goes.

St. Faustina once asked Jesus why the angels were not pardoned when they rebelled. He answered that their knowledge of God was greater than that of the greatest human saint which made their sin more egregious.

Also once they made their decision as one poster notes above, their will became fixed. Remember, the angels exist outside of space and time.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

They did not suffer from a fallen nature as man does, plus they rebelled even though they saw God as He is, which man cannot do while alive.

 

[Sarcelle]

They did not suffer from a fallen nature as man does, plus they rebelled even though they saw God as He is, which man cannot do while alive.

Adam and Eve were not fallen yet they still sinned. Their sin while causing their banishment from the garden of Eden did not include permanent banishment from God’s kingdom.

 

[SighGuy]

From my understanding, the angels were not privy to the Beatific Vision before their moral testing, so I would not say that they say God as He is.

Nevertheless, the angels are of a ken far greater than our own. Their intellects and wills are unmatched upon the earth. When God releases the angels, they can destroy matter at will, as they do in Revelation, without even the use of bodies, a limitation we cannot imagine overcoming.

An angel does not function like a human. We go through time, learn more, make mistakes, goof up… angels do not learn like humans do. Their knowledge is infused.

Imagine that you were so intelligent that you knew exactly what was going to happen and exactly what it meant, every time you chose to do something. Satan knew, choosing to rebel against God, that he would be exiling himself from God, and he knew that existence would be hateful, yet he preferred it for whatever reason. When we choose, we choose with imperfect knowledge, undergo experiences that change us, etc… and we can regret out choice. The angels can’t. They knew exactly what they were doing.

Analogously, think about how you wouldn’t put a five-year old in prison for the rest of his life for shooting someone. But you might if he was 35. His decision was more concrete at 35 than at 5, more understood. Imagine that on a far grander scale for the angels.

 

[glendab]

Don’t feel sad for the devils. They have no feelings for you as a human except envy and hatred. Their choice was irrevocable. They will never experience change. We have the ability to have that “second chance,” or a third or fourth or fifth, etc. This is one of the reasons they hate us with a diabolical hatred that motivates them to sack us so we will lose our Salvation and wind up in Hell with them. Those who think that the devils will some day some how experience Salvation are called universalists among other things and this is a heresy and this falsehood is a part of several heresies. It is a big error. So, no sympathy for the devil is necessary or recommended.

Glenda

 

[ClearWater]

Why wouldn’t God give Satan and the demons a second chance? while we humans are forgiven 70x7 times? (always given chances)

While this greatly humbles me as I sin an awful lot everyday…but Im so loved by God. I feel so sad for the demons…and feel unworthy of such grace. Why cant they be given another chance? ( I took this reflection from a meditation on St. Ignatius’ Spiritual exercises)…would it be possible for the demons to be forgiven?

Also, because they are unrepentant. We can be forgiven, provided we are repetant. They are NOT repentant.

 

[Bookcat]

Their nature is quite different than ours. The decision was full and final on their part.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Why wouldn’t God give Satan and the demons a second chance? while we humans are forgiven 70x7 times? (always given chances)

While this greatly humbles me as I sin an awful lot everyday…but Im so loved by God. I feel so sad for the demons…and feel unworthy of such grace. Why cant they be given another chance? ( I took this reflection from a meditation on St. Ignatius’ Spiritual exercises)…would it be possible for the demons to be forgiven?

They had full knowledge. We see through a glass darkly (1 Co 13:12).

With the fullness of that Beatific Vision, they still chose to rebel against God. We rebel, too, but we do so largely in ignorance.

Ignorance reduces culpability.

 

[TK421]

If you took human beings into the state of the angels, you would have some that instantly rebel and some that instantly join God. For us, we think we have it all figured out, but then something happens, and a change in conscious occurs. Somebody that seemed good becomes depraved, or somebody that seemed depraved becomes good. There are no “loose ends” when you have such a profound knowledge & understanding of God. You either fundamentally love or hate Him. God’s nature is so beautiful that there is no such thing as being neutral once you encounter it. If you’re standing next to a girl that is drowning, and you have every capability of grabbing her hand, there is no such thing as being neutral. You don’t have the option of A) grab her, B) push her under the water, or C) be “neutral” and walk away. Option C makes you guilty.

In a certain sense, God sees us the same way. He knew the elect from the damned from eternity.

 

[Bookcat]

Catechism

392 Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels.269 This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter’s words to our first parents: "You will be like God."270 The devil “has sinned from the beginning”; he is “a liar and the father of lies”.271

393 It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels’ sin unforgivable. "There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death."272

scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c1p7.htm#414

 

[Kay_Cee]

I wasn’t far into writing my second novel (see my signature below) when I realized the story was going to have to cover the rebellion of the angels. Since we did not witness it, we can only speculate what happened.

Here’s a snippet of the scene in which one of the good angels (Abriel) pleads with a rebellious angel (Hezera) to turn back to God. That is, the demon is being asked to repent of his action, and I show why I believe this would never happen:

*Hezera’s spirit stiffened. Light within him, teeming with love, waned. His appendages crystallized, frozen from lack of power. Hands gnarled into claws, feet shriveled into stumps. A snarl tightened on his face.

His life energy, darker than space devoid of stars, reversed course, turning inward toward himself instead of outward toward others. Free to move, he thrashed about.

“It hurts!” he screamed. “Abriel, your love burns! The Creator’s Love burns! It’s toxic to my energy flow!”

“What have you done?” Abriel cried. “You’re an opposite!”

The Creator’s Voice resonated above the turmoil of screaming angels. “My children, why have you uprooted yourselves from the Source of Light and Love?”

Hezera’s eyes ignited with scarlet hatred. “The Creator knew this would happen to me! He knew, and he created me anyway!”

“But you chose it,” Abriel said. “You did it to yourself.”

“Damn you, Abriel! Make it stop! Stop loving me! If you truly were a friend, you would stop being a friend!”

“How can I stop?” Abriel said, dismayed. “I can’t be what I’m not.”

“I am what I wasn’t!” Hezera roared. “If you were my friend, you would be what you aren’t too!”

“Do you want to be what you aren’t?” Abriel cried. “Do you want the Creator to turn you back?”

“No!” Hezera shrieked. “I hate him! Do you think I want someone I abhor to force me to love him? After he let me become this?”

“But that was your free choice. You yourself chose to become what you are. If he hadn’t allowed you to choose, he would have already forced you to love him.”
*

As I mentioned, this is only speculation, but it seems to me that those who hate fully and completely have no desire to either give or receive love–except of course self-love (which, in a sense is not love at all). To them, the love of heaven would be an even worse hell than the one they are already in.

 

[truetofaith]

Why wouldn’t God give Satan and the demons a second chance? while we humans are forgiven 70x7 times? (always given chances)

While this greatly humbles me as I sin an awful lot everyday…but Im so loved by God. I feel so sad for the demons…and feel unworthy of such grace. Why cant they be given another chance? ( I took this reflection from a meditation on St. Ignatius’ Spiritual exercises)…would it be possible for the demons to be forgiven?

They don’t want a second chance…satan & his angels told God 'they will Not Serve!

As far as people who go to hell…they were given plenty of opportunities to repent during their lifetimes.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Why wouldn’t God give Satan and the demons a second chance? while we humans are forgiven 70x7 times? (always given chances)

While this greatly humbles me as I sin an awful lot everyday…but Im so loved by God. I feel so sad for the demons…and feel unworthy of such grace. Why cant they be given another chance? ( I took this reflection from a meditation on St. Ignatius’ Spiritual exercises)…would it be possible for the demons to be forgiven?

Here is what I think may answer the question from Pope John Paul II’s Catechesis on Angels from July 23, 1986:*#3 The pure spirits have a knowledge of God incomparably more perfect than that of man, because by the power of their intellect, not conditioned nor limited by the mediation of sense knowledge, they see to the depths the greatness of infinite Being, of the first Truth, of the supreme Good. …

#5 How are we to understand such opposition and rebellion against God in beings endowed with such profound and enlightened intelligence? What can be the motive for such a radical and irreversible choice against God? Of a hatred so profound as to appear solely the fruit of folly? The Fathers of the Church and theologians do not hesitate to speak of a “blindness” produced by the overrating of the perfection of their own being, driven to the point of ignoring God’s supremacy, which requires instead an act of docile and obedient subjection. All this summed up concisely in the words: “I will not serve” Jer 2:20), which manifest the radical and irreversible refusal to take part in the building up of the kingdom of God in the created world. Satan, the rebellious spirit, wishes to have his own kingdom, not that of God, and he rises up as the first “adversary” of the Creator, the opponent of Providence, and antagonist of God’s loving wisdom. From Satan’s rebellion and sin, and likewise from that of man, we must conclude by accepting the wise experience of Scripture which states: “In pride there is ruin” (Tob 4:13).*Read full catechesis here.

 

[moondawg]

Remember, the angels exist outside of space and time.

Then how did they appear in space and time? What is the difference between existing outside of space and time, and not existing at all?

 

[Dorothy]

Then how did they appear in space and time? What is the difference between existing outside of space and time, and not existing at all?

Sacred Scripture tells us they were cast down to the earth.(we don’t fully see how they are both outside of time, and can tempt us. They are on a leash, so to speak, and are allowed to tempt us, but they cannot force us to sin. We have free will. When we resist their temptations (and we won’t be tempted beyond our strength), we become stronger spiritually.

So, those evil ones are even more confounded when they see we can become stronger and closer to the Lord by resisting their temptations. We need the grace of God through prayer and the sacraments to resist, and repent if we fall.

Sorry, with my limited knowledge I did not know how to respond to your second question.

If you are interested in theology about the angels, both the good ones and the fallen ones, I recommend the book by Professor Peter Kreeft titled “Angels and Demons”.

 

[StSentry83]

Why wouldn’t God give Satan and the demons a second chance? while we humans are forgiven 70x7 times? (always given chances)

While this greatly humbles me as I sin an awful lot everyday…but Im so loved by God. I feel so sad for the demons…and feel unworthy of such grace. Why cant they be given another chance? ( I took this reflection from a meditation on St. Ignatius’ Spiritual exercises)…would it be possible for the demons to be forgiven?

Moral relativism, or divine command theory or something. God can do whatever He wants and it is good, we can do the same thing and it’s bad if God says so. So sometimes we have to do as God does, other times the opposite, etc.

 

[PraiseB2God]

Why wouldn’t God give Satan and the demons a second chance? while we humans are forgiven 70x7 times? (always given chances)

While this greatly humbles me as I sin an awful lot everyday…but Im so loved by God. I feel so sad for the demons…and feel unworthy of such grace. Why cant they be given another chance? ( I took this reflection from a meditation on St. Ignatius’ Spiritual exercises)…would it be possible for the demons to be forgiven?

I think your question is off. God is Love; John told us that. This Love means that there are always second chances. That offer or possibility is there–even for Satan and the demons–but Satan and the demons would never consider it. It is not God who is not doing the giving but Satan and the demons who, by their choices, cannot accept.

 

[glendab]

Hello Kay Cee.

I wasn’t far into writing my second novel (see my signature below) when I realized the story was going to have to cover the rebellion of the angels. Since we did not witness it, we can only speculate what happened.

Here’s a snippet of the scene in which one of the good angels (Abriel) pleads with a rebellious angel (Hezera) to turn back to God. That is, the demon is being asked to repent of his action, and I show why I believe this would never happen:

*Hezera’s spirit stiffened. Light within him, teeming with love, waned. His appendages crystallized, frozen from lack of power. Hands gnarled into claws, feet shriveled into stumps. A snarl tightened on his face.

His life energy, darker than space devoid of stars, reversed course, turning inward toward himself instead of outward toward others. Free to move, he thrashed about.

“It hurts!” he screamed. “Abriel, your love burns! The Creator’s Love burns! It’s toxic to my energy flow!”

“What have you done?” Abriel cried. “You’re an opposite!”

The Creator’s Voice resonated above the turmoil of screaming angels. “My children, why have you uprooted yourselves from the Source of Light and Love?”

Hezera’s eyes ignited with scarlet hatred. “The Creator knew this would happen to me! He knew, and he created me anyway!”

“But you chose it,” Abriel said. “You did it to yourself.”

“Damn you, Abriel! Make it stop! Stop loving me! If you truly were a friend, you would stop being a friend!”

“How can I stop?” Abriel said, dismayed. “I can’t be what I’m not.”

“I am what I wasn’t!” Hezera roared. “If you were my friend, you would be what you aren’t too!”

“Do you want to be what you aren’t?” Abriel cried. “Do you want the Creator to turn you back?”

“No!” Hezera shrieked. “I hate him! Do you think I want someone I abhor to force me to love him? After he let me become this?”

“But that was your free choice. You yourself chose to become what you are. If he hadn’t allowed you to choose, he would have already forced you to love him.”
*

As I mentioned, this is only speculation, but it seems to me that those who hate fully and completely have no desire to either give or receive love–except of course self-love (which, in a sense is not love at all). To them, the love of heaven would be an even worse hell than the one they are already in.

Nice, but you left out one little detail, (and we know the devil is in the details) the fact that the personification of evil needs to be loved, adored and worshiped by those around it and will deceive others into doing so which is one of the outcomes of turning towards evil. It seduces people and they actually begin to long for evil as if it is good. Part of this is the psychology of why the angels fell - they say Lucifer the first to fall envied the worship he saw the Christ getting and wanted it for himself and was the “reason” he rebelled because he couldn’t have it. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t try. Think Satanists today. Who is it they worship? None other than Lucifer. They symbolize their religious affection for the prince of darkness with a star of many points. Really perverse stuff. :bigyikes: Time to change the subject. I scare me. Nice writing though. You should do more.

Glenda