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JimG
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This article seems intended for women but after reading it I think it may apply to men as well. Physicians don’t always take an individual patient’s complaint seriously.
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alphawoman
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FPerhaps this article should instead be titled, “Why women should self advocate more effectively in medical settings, and report doctor non-compliance with known asthma treatment algorithms to regulatory health bodies for disciplinary action.”
As a woman, I have NEVER been pushed away by a doctor and offered ineffective intervention. I simply wouldn’t allow it. Perhaps this article is revealing medical sexism, or maybe it just speaks to women’s need to be more assertive in patient care settings. It seems the gulf between outcomes in the article stems from different levels of assertiveness used by the wife and husband.
If medical under-treatment of women is systematic, then doctors need anti-bias training embedded into medical school coursework.
As a woman, I have NEVER been pushed away by a doctor and offered ineffective intervention. I simply wouldn’t allow it. Perhaps this article is revealing medical sexism, or maybe it just speaks to women’s need to be more assertive in patient care settings. It seems the gulf between outcomes in the article stems from different levels of assertiveness used by the wife and husband.
If medical under-treatment of women is systematic, then doctors need anti-bias training embedded into medical school coursework.
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pensmama87
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I do think there’s evidence of sexism. Women who push can have their assertiveness treated as aggression, or hysteria, or a plea simply “for attention.”
When I encounter that kind of treatment and I have a choice, I find a different provider. That may not be possible in an emergency, though. I try hard to be a good patient, follow instructions, and show respect. For the most part my health care and my children’s has been excellent. But there’s always that jerk you don’t want to get stuck with…
When I encounter that kind of treatment and I have a choice, I find a different provider. That may not be possible in an emergency, though. I try hard to be a good patient, follow instructions, and show respect. For the most part my health care and my children’s has been excellent. But there’s always that jerk you don’t want to get stuck with…
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Cruciferi
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My sister was in an auto accident that totaled her vehicle. She was whisked away to ER and they took X-Rays. They didn’t keep her for more than a couple hours and then tossed her out!
Looking at her original X-Ray it’s clear that her clavicle was damaged. Yet, Her family physician refused to refer her to an Orthopedic Surgeon or to order another X-Ray!
She went to another hospital and got more X-rays done. These images clearly show a complete break of the clavicle. In the end she required surgery.
I highly doubt that anyone would have been as dismissive to me as they were to her.
Looking at her original X-Ray it’s clear that her clavicle was damaged. Yet, Her family physician refused to refer her to an Orthopedic Surgeon or to order another X-Ray!
She went to another hospital and got more X-rays done. These images clearly show a complete break of the clavicle. In the end she required surgery.
I highly doubt that anyone would have been as dismissive to me as they were to her.
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BlueEyedLadies
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Chill. This is an issue to be aware of. It’s great that you have found your voice and are a capable self-advocate. However, women who are more timid should probably consider this advice over just resolving to be more assertive in high-stress medical situations, you know, for the sake of health and safety. There’s more power in acknowledging and compensating for your weak points than in pretending they just don’t exist.
I’m also guessing by your “I-simply-won’t-allow-it” attitude that you’ve never really dealt with the medical system in a major way, or you’re very wealthy. Gender aside, when you have a serious health issue, you are largely at the mercy of your doctors whether you realize it or not because it’s so time consuming, and therefore often dangerous, to switch providers and get them up to speed.
A few years ago, I told a friend to take a man with her when she dropped her car off at a shop because she would be less likely to be ripped off; the mechanic might feel safe assuming she knows nothing about cars, but he may not be so quick to think that about a guy. She went into a similar rant about not “allowing” herself to be taken advantage of. She had no answer for how she would even know if she was or not.
Seriously though, everyone, men and women, should take someone with them for big, or potentially big things. Emotions are high, you may feel vulnerable or in shock or whatever, and you need someone to ask questions and push back.
I’m also guessing by your “I-simply-won’t-allow-it” attitude that you’ve never really dealt with the medical system in a major way, or you’re very wealthy. Gender aside, when you have a serious health issue, you are largely at the mercy of your doctors whether you realize it or not because it’s so time consuming, and therefore often dangerous, to switch providers and get them up to speed.
A few years ago, I told a friend to take a man with her when she dropped her car off at a shop because she would be less likely to be ripped off; the mechanic might feel safe assuming she knows nothing about cars, but he may not be so quick to think that about a guy. She went into a similar rant about not “allowing” herself to be taken advantage of. She had no answer for how she would even know if she was or not.
Seriously though, everyone, men and women, should take someone with them for big, or potentially big things. Emotions are high, you may feel vulnerable or in shock or whatever, and you need someone to ask questions and push back.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
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And while you should take someone with you, how you are treated and how that person is treated is huge.A few years ago, I told a friend to take a man with her when she dropped her car off at a shop because she would be less likely to be ripped off; the mechanic might feel safe assuming she knows nothing about cars, but he may not be so quick to think that about a guy. She went into a similar rant about not “allowing” herself to be taken advantage of. She had no answer for how she would even know if she was or not.
Seriously though, everyone, men and women, should take someone with them for big, or potentially big things. Emotions are high, you may feel vulnerable or in shock or whatever, and you need someone to ask questions and push back.
For instance, when car shopping for the first time my parents were far away. I asked a gentleman from Bible study who had been a mechanic to come help me out. Everyone thought he was my dad and were really demeaning towards me. With one salesman I corrected him twice that he was my friend from church and the guy still proceeded to ignore me and talk only to my male friend.
The guy I ended up buying from was AMAZING. He acknowledged my friend’s presence and then asked me what I wanted and made suggestions. He was polite but was very careful to realize that I was his client/customer. When I had decided what car I’d like to test drive, it was only then he asked my friend if he had any questions.
It’s always good to have another set of ears. But I think that sometimes the point is, if someone–salesman, doctor, teacher, lawyer is treating you better because you have a witness/male than get away from that professional as fast as possible.
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His_helpmeet
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The irony in our family is that I’m a nurse and know more about medicine than my husband does. We are lucky - our doctor knows I’m a nurse (I used to work in our local auxiliary hospital and he is the doctor for some of the residents) so he takes me seriously.
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TheLittleLady
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I would not continue to work with a physician who did not take me seriously.
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TheLittleLady
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This. Exactly this.
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CelticWarlord
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My mother in law wishes her husband would stop coming to the doctor with her. His presence makes her feel stifled and she’s unable to express her concerns properly. I hear about this from my wife and understand mom is too timid to do anything about it.
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BlueEyedLadies
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The point is, you may not always know if you’re receiving different or subpar treatment because you’re a woman. You’re talking about overt acts of disrespect. But just being brushed off? You wouldn’t know if that was gender, or if it was because the doc really didn’t think you were sick.
Same with dropping off a car. It’s great to be confident, but unless you have actually diagnosed the problem yourself and know the fix, you won’t know if a car mechanic is lying about the issue to extract more money. So yeah, bringing a witness, and a man at that, has a deterrent effect that you really can’t recreate with your own bravado.
And as far as walking out and getting a new doc? Yeah, good luck just calling up a new oncologist and having another set of tests run. Medicine, especially specialized stuff, doesn’t work that smoothly or easily.
That you might be taken advantage of because you’re a woman isn’t a reflection on you, it’s a reflection of the dishonest person looking to take advantage.
Same with dropping off a car. It’s great to be confident, but unless you have actually diagnosed the problem yourself and know the fix, you won’t know if a car mechanic is lying about the issue to extract more money. So yeah, bringing a witness, and a man at that, has a deterrent effect that you really can’t recreate with your own bravado.
And as far as walking out and getting a new doc? Yeah, good luck just calling up a new oncologist and having another set of tests run. Medicine, especially specialized stuff, doesn’t work that smoothly or easily.
That you might be taken advantage of because you’re a woman isn’t a reflection on you, it’s a reflection of the dishonest person looking to take advantage.
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DarkLight
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Yeah it’s going to depend on your situation too. I’ve definitely been in a situation where there were very limited options.
It’s much worse if you have any sort of diagnosed mental health issue. I’ve had stuff that got ignored for a long time because it could be blamed on my mental health.
It’s much worse if you have any sort of diagnosed mental health issue. I’ve had stuff that got ignored for a long time because it could be blamed on my mental health.
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Allegra
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I’ve never experienced this with an actual doctor, but the people who answer the phones! Jeesh! I remember telling one of my OBGYNs that, Yes, I was sure I was pregnant. No, I was not waiting for an appointment in two weeks. Yes, I needed to be on progesterone or my baby would die. And yes, I would be there to see the doctor that day whether she cooperated or not. He’s a brilliant doctor that needs to quit hiring his brother’s step-daughters to mind his phones.
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alphawoman
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blue eyed lady:
I’m an informed patient who has also worked in health system design and knows that GPs generally don’t know what the accepted protocol is for treatment in specialty areas, let alone the correct referral path. In many cases, patients need to own their own health care responsibilities, or at least be active partners in their management.
Information is power. Most people advocate from a place of emotion, not knowledge, and so their self-advocacy is ineffective. As well, patients who monitor their health information carefully, follow treatment protocols, and present reasoned arguments to their health care providers are more likely to be taken seriously.
Treatment algorithms are publicly available for most indications. Anyone with an internet connection or a library card can be an effective self-advocate.
You would be mistaken, then.
I’m an informed patient who has also worked in health system design and knows that GPs generally don’t know what the accepted protocol is for treatment in specialty areas, let alone the correct referral path. In many cases, patients need to own their own health care responsibilities, or at least be active partners in their management.
Information is power. Most people advocate from a place of emotion, not knowledge, and so their self-advocacy is ineffective. As well, patients who monitor their health information carefully, follow treatment protocols, and present reasoned arguments to their health care providers are more likely to be taken seriously.
Treatment algorithms are publicly available for most indications. Anyone with an internet connection or a library card can be an effective self-advocate.
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pensmama87
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I think this is important, but also it’s important to recognize a lot of people don’t know what they don’t know, until very suddenly they need to know it - when they’re very likely in a vulnerable position. I’m sure this isn’t what you mean, but your post seems to invite a kind of victim blaming - that if we’re treated badly, it’s our own fault. Really, though, we should be able to trust medical providers, because that’s their job, and they study for years and interact with systems of care in ways that most of the rest of us don’t and never will. It’s very hard, when you’re ill or injured, to be thrust into a bewildering system all of a sudden. I think it’s a great idea, if you can, to have an advocate with you, especially if it’s known there are systematic flaws. You may be too busy puking or bleeding or delivering a baby to have time to reason with inflexible staff.
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Allegra
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Not to mention that you could be in an incapacitated state in the future and it’s helpful to have someone there ho heard what the doctor actually said! For example, why my daughter had her spinal cord detethering surgery, there was a night-and-day difference between what the floor nurses interpreted my daughters care plan and what the surgeon actually told us not a half hour before we got to the floor. I had to call his office the next day to demand that he speak with the nurse because she refused to give my daughter any pain meds. It turns out she was one of these nuts that believe that because a non-verbal infant doesn’t miraculously demand morphine by name, they must not be in any pain.
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alphawoman
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What the article is suggesting is not that care is universally poor, but that it’s worse for women than men in similar diseases. That speaks to either sexism among doctors (possible), lower effectiveness of self-advocacy by women (possible), or some combination of the two.
Outside the discussion of health outcomes for conditions shared by the genders, it’s also possible that doctors are more than usually ignorant to the conditions that afflict women—I definitely buy that given the disparity in research funding for male vs female reproductive cancers. In that case, women can choose to fund women-specific medical research, lobby politicians, and self-advocate and self-inform.
Victim blaming? I suppose I am. I’d rather make a conscious choice to improve the situation than sit idly by and be victimized, or allow others to be by not correcting medical professionals, and I wish the same for my fellow women. All of us will face difficult situations and decisions; it’s a matter of when, not if. I want to know the medical profession will make sound decisions for all women, not just those like me, and so I’m not shy about making good treatment decisions known.
But I agree strongly that patients shouldn’t have to look over the shoulders of their medical providers. That we are discussing it suggests a failure of the medical profession.
Outside the discussion of health outcomes for conditions shared by the genders, it’s also possible that doctors are more than usually ignorant to the conditions that afflict women—I definitely buy that given the disparity in research funding for male vs female reproductive cancers. In that case, women can choose to fund women-specific medical research, lobby politicians, and self-advocate and self-inform.
Victim blaming? I suppose I am. I’d rather make a conscious choice to improve the situation than sit idly by and be victimized, or allow others to be by not correcting medical professionals, and I wish the same for my fellow women. All of us will face difficult situations and decisions; it’s a matter of when, not if. I want to know the medical profession will make sound decisions for all women, not just those like me, and so I’m not shy about making good treatment decisions known.
But I agree strongly that patients shouldn’t have to look over the shoulders of their medical providers. That we are discussing it suggests a failure of the medical profession.
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DarkLight
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There’s a definite problem that many older medical studies used only men. For example, it’s a common complaint with heart attacks. Men and women often have different symptoms, but what’s publicized as the symptoms of a heart attack are the symptoms in men.
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Rozellelily
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Completely agree.
The reality is that sexism/bias in the medical industry does exist on a wide scale because if you compare how many women are “diagnosed” with Somatisation Disorder (Hysteria in the '50s) compared to male patients there is a big difference statistically.
The reality is that sexism/bias in the medical industry does exist on a wide scale because if you compare how many women are “diagnosed” with Somatisation Disorder (Hysteria in the '50s) compared to male patients there is a big difference statistically.
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Rozellelily
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It’s worrying that there are people like that in the nursing profession.
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