Why you should think that the Natural-Evolution of species is true

  • Thread starter Thread starter IWantGod
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
They were not inspired? The Holy Spirit was not involved?
The modernist lexicon doesn’t contain the word, “inspired”. One often comes across a “modern” theologian who claims that the ancient authors of the Bible borrowed myths from other cultures - the implication is, these ancient authors may not have been inspired - they just copied ideas from somewhere else.
 
Last edited:
Scientist: “I’m going to create life from this dirt.” And he scoops up some dirt. Jesus: Get your own dirt.
Scientists can genetically modify certain organisms, but they’ll never be able to create life (or even an atom) from nothing. According to Thomistic philosophy, it is a far greater feat for God to create life from nothing than to modify an existing creature. From this perpective, a process of progressive creation (separate creations) demonstrates God’s power and glory far greater than a process of evolution ever could.
 
Last edited:
The Holy Spirit allowed a misinterpretation for so long?
The confusion is stll going on, apparently - Thevo’s claim the first eleven chapters of Genesis are “symbolic” - if so, no one knows what all that “symbolism” means!
 
Yes, if the thing being misinterpreted is irrelevant to the story of God’s relationship with man.
I agree - the history of the world before Adam, for example, presented figuratively as six days of creation. But post-Adam (“the story of God’s relationship with man”), the Genesis narrative switches to the literal.
 
Last edited:
40.png
Bradskii:
It was a miracle that stopped it turning around the earth?

You should think a little more and post a little less.
God, who created everything, could not do this?
The original post was flagged and consequently removed. Whoever that was, plus you (unless they are one and the same person and maybe you can confirm that) completely missed the the point of the post.

Which is: If you think that people thought that it was miraculous to believe that God stopped the sun from moving, then they had accepted that it was moving in the first instance.

Do I detect a new modus operandi at work here…?
 
If He intended to, sure. He did not say He did.
He did say. Not in words, “Let the waters bring forth…” is compatible with many interpretations. He said so in His Works. The evidence of the world shows that God used evolution.

Remember that God wrote two books: the Bible and the World. You appear to be ignoring what He said in His second book.

rossum
 
Last edited:
Actually, I do have a theological objection to evolution - I’d forgotten about Genesis 1 and the verses which describe God creating organisms “according to their kind”. In my opinion, such verses rule out any possibility of one kind evolving into a completely different kind. My model of Progressive Creation, on the other hand, doesn’t contradict such verses, as each new creation is a kind that remains the same kind.
From a biological point of view, there is only one ‘kind’: the Life on Earth kind. That makes biology, including evolution, compatible with Genesis.

The evidence of the history of life tends to confirm the all life is one kind hypothesis.

rossum
 
In that case, how did it come about that one’s deeds in this life result in good or bad “karma” in the next life? It seems that your godless, self-created universe is also a judgeless universe that somehow judges people and then unfailingly administers infallible justice.
If I throw a stone straight up in the air, they whose fault is it if that stone comes down and hits me on the head? Karma works like gravity. There is no need for a god of gravity to seek out Wile E Coyote when he has run off the edge of a cliff and push him down.

Karma is not like a law administered by a judge; it is like a law of physics – it is a part of the universe. Actions have consequences, or “By their fruits shall you know them” if you prefer.

rossum
 
Scientists can genetically modify certain organisms, but they’ll never be able to create life (or even an atom) from nothing.
Classic god of the gaps: “never”. Be very careful here. Thor once lived in the gap called “What causes thunder?” Science closed that gap and now Thor has to live in comic books, not Asgard.

As a philosophical point, God did not create the first life, since He Himself is a living God, so He is the first life, and He did not create Himself. At most He created the second life.

rossum
 
40.png
rossum:
God, who created everything, could not do evolution?
If He intended to, sure. He did not say He did.
I disagree, but then evolution is such a slippery word that I can’t say what you might mean by this.

I suppose Adam could have had an umbilicus. This would not imply that random chemical processes were at work in his creation, nor that natural selection had a role, other than as a distortion of the fact that everything exists as part of an environment. Adam would have to have been the first man and no polygenism. He would not have been formed with any genetic-cellular components that did not have a present and future role in the formation of the human body, meaning no viral inclusions. Evolution as an explanation for our creation pretty much disappears as we consider mankind in Eden before the fall. I believe we would have been told if an animal had been given a spiritual soul to start us off.

I suppose I have trouble with the cognitive dissonance that arises from a belief in theistic evolution, again whatever than means. There is one reality, and acceptance of evolution will whittle down a belief in God. That might be what is at the bottom of these discussions, that the god that people who hold strongly to evolution,is not He who is revealed in scripture.
 
Last edited:
40.png
William_Scott:
The well known evolutionist Richard Lewontin speaks forthrightly regarding the dogmatic worldview …
… (despite it’s incompatibility with the fossil record).
Except that it isn’t.
40.png
LeafByNiggle:
Yes, if the thing being misinterpreted is irrelevant to the story of God’s relationship with man.
I agree - the history of the world before Adam, for example, presented figuratively as six days of creation. But post-Adam (“the story of God’s relationship with man”), the Genesis narrative switches to the literal.
The Church does not make that distinction.
 
Last edited:
Oh, I completely agree with you - #283 is obviously referring to evolution,… Not to be deterred, this blantantly pro-evolution paragraph is very sneaky and cleverly worded, as it does its best to imply evolution IS a fact:
  1. Notice how the “scientific studies” into “the orgins … of man” are described as “knowledge” and “discoveries”. The impliction is, evolution is a fact, as only a fact can qualify as knowledge or discovery.
  2. The paragraph implies that the scientists who are responsible for this “knowledge” and “discoveries” about “the origins … of man” (ie, evolution) have been blessed by God with “unerring knowledge” - ie, infallible knowledge.
Of course it doesn’t.
This wording implies evolution is not only a fact, but it is infallible knowledge handed down from God - this is just absurd.
It is absurd, and it is not implied by the wording.
So it is fair to say I oppose the implictions of #283…
There you have it. Sola scriptura. (Your private interpretation.)
, because evolution is not a fact and can never be confirmed as a fact, and therefore cannot possibly be “infallible knowledge”.
Straw person argument.
[/quote]
I believe #283 is in fact in error, is very misleading and should be removed from the Catechism.
[/quote]
I will stick with what the Church teaches.
Out of curiosity, does that mean you’re open to the possibility of non-human evolution?
No, I oppose non-human evolution on the basis of the verses in Genesis 1 which state that organisms were created “according to their kind”.
[/quote]
 
p.p.p.p.p.s. For those who might question what our friend Aquinas (or the rest of our “fundamentalist” forefathers) …
I don’t believe I’ve read anything you’ve posted in this thread that any Catholic in good standing could not have also posted.
 
As a philosophical point, God did not create the first life, since He Himself is a living God, so He is the first life, and He did not create Himself. At most He created the second life.
To be philosophically correct, as God is eternal and not created, He did create the first life.
 
To be philosophically correct, as God is eternal and not created, He did create the first life.
He may have created the first created life. He did not create the first life, because the first life is uncreated.
 
Hey, this sounds rather like my Progressive Creation model!
An alternate hypothesis to evolution (small errors in the beginning result in large errors at the ending) is to assume a large and fixed gene pool at the beginning. What evolutionists call “mutations” become simply “permutations” and no evolving occurs. God’s plan merely plays out over time.
 
At most He created the second life.
He may have created the first created life.
The difference between created life and un-created life is not in degree but in kind.
He did not create the first life, because the first life is uncreated.
The word “first” always modifies an event in time. Therefore, the use of the word as descriptive of beings in eternity is meaningless.
 
Last edited:
40.png
Edgar:
Hey, this sounds rather like my Progressive Creation model!
An alternate hypothesis to evolution (small errors in the beginning result in large errors at the ending) is to assume a large and fixed gene pool at the beginning. What evolutionists call “mutations” become simply “permutations” and no evolving occurs. God’s plan merely plays out over time.
That is the first step in the scientific process. (Well done!) Now take the second step. Gather more data and try to confirm the hypothesis. Are there any identifiable portions of advanced DNA in the most primitive life forms? What about artificial selection where very unnatural characteristics are selected for and evolve? Is the atrocity known as the modern English Bulldog part of God’s plan? What is the proposed mechanism by which advanced characteristics appear at the proper time? What is the cause and effect? This theory has more problems than evolution.
 
I agree with this post and it is the general idea of what I would’ve written in response to @Edgar.
 
Last edited:
40.png
Edgar:
Hey, this sounds rather like my Progressive Creation model!
An alternate hypothesis to evolution (small errors in the beginning result in large errors at the ending) is to assume a large and fixed gene pool at the beginning. What evolutionists call “mutations” become simply “permutations” and no evolving occurs. God’s plan merely plays out over time.
This is a much more reasonable explanation. I would add that God’s plan does not merely play out in time, but involves His active involvement as Creator of all time and place, Divine Artist and Father.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top