Why you should think that the Natural-Evolution of species is true

  • Thread starter Thread starter IWantGod
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
If a new Darwin thread opened I was going to put the following forward.

Theistic evolution causes scientism and causes the Bible to be implausible weakening Catholicism.

The Bible stands strong against this onslaught. Science (historical science) has not proven anything and Catholics should not doubt Scripture.
 
buffalo said:
Catholics should not doubt Scripture.
Click to expand...
How are they doubting scripture? In what sense are they doubting it?

I think you should always strive for a reasonable faith and not just follow blindly some popular interpretation just because you grew up on it… Surprisingly when i really did my research i found out the Church was on my side.
 
Last edited:
IWantGod said:
How are they doubting scripture? In what sense are they doubting it?
Click to expand...
The literal interpretation of Genesis and Adam and Eve.

Science has claimed no Adam and Eve
no initial creation of prototypical organisms
even souls do not exist.
 
buffalo said:
Science has claimed no Adam and Eve

no initial creation of prototypical organisms

even souls do not exist.
Click to expand...
Science cannot really say either way if Adam or Eve existed in a literal sense.All they can say is that there has always been large population sizes. There is nothing to say that God did not choose a single man from a population and give him a soul, possibly from the moment of conception. The nature of the soul, what it is, where it came from, or whether or not it exists, is not a subject of science and scientist cannot affirm or deny it’s existence. It’s a matter of faith and philosophy.
 
Last edited:
IWantGod said:
Science cannot really say either way if Adam or Eve existed in a literal sense.All they can say is that there has always been large population sizes. There is nothing to say that God did not choose a single man from a population and give him a soul, possibly from the moment of conception. The nature of the soul, what it is, where it came from, or whether or not it exists, is not a subject of science and scientist cannot affirm or deny it’s existence. It’s a matter of faith and philosophy.
Click to expand...
I have difficulty believing God allowed death and destruction to build up to a human He could ensoul rather than create the Adam in His image and likeness imeediately.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
The Bible is not a scientific textbook, it is the story of God’s love for humanity. The specific methods of creation, whether immediate or over the course of billions of years, is inconsequential to the question of human salvation, which is the primary focus of the texts. The Bible does not need to discuss the mechanics of creation, in part because the people to whom the OT was related would have had zero basis for understanding the complex mechanics of astrophysics and evolution. It’s just not important to the question of God’s sovereignty and human salvation.
Click to expand...
That’s true, also think of this:

The Biblical Creation account is truly revolutionary and IMO that proves it’s supernatural. There are two potential time periods and places for when Genesis 1-2 was committed to writing - the traditional theory of either the 15th or 13th century B.C. in the desert of Sinai, or the modern theory of the 6th century B.C. in Babylon.

Either time and place - whether 13th century Sinai or 6th century Babylon - is truly incredible when considering the historical context. There is no other creation narrative from any culture or peoples in those time periods which is even remotely close to the Genesis creation narrative.

All the Egyptian and Babylonian creation accounts, as well as all the neighboring cultures of Africa and Mesopotamia, considered the Sun and Moon and stars to be gods. Genesis doesn’t even name them, simply calling them the lights (stars), and the greater and lesser lights (sun and moon). This is quite incredible. Totally unnatural for people in either context to think this way - it is, to me, proof of the supernatural origin.

Again, the Egyptian, Babylonian, and surrounding cultures all had ideas about God fighting and battling with various monsters, and creating things out of other things or gods and “working” in a human way. The Bible, OTOH, simply envisages God speaking everything effortlessly into existence, and simply commanding the pre-creation singularity to conform to his will and create what he wants. Again, this is extremely unnatural thinking for people in these ages to have held - in fact, it’s totally bizarre - and again, IMO, it is proof the Scriptures are God-breathed.
 
“There never was a war between religion and empirical science, but there is a war between religion and materialistic science, and the battleground is evolution”. — Jonathan Wells, Zombie Science
 
Last edited:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
I found a Bulbasaur!
 
What is ‘natural’? Nature is only ’ natural’ because God created it to be that way. Is it ‘natural’ for species to evolve? If so then why is that? Ultimately you have to get to something that is the ultimate cause of the nature of things, whether they evolve or not, and that is God, the Intelligent Uncaused Cause of all things intelligible.
 
“Because it is clear from the fossil record that almost every species that has ever existed is extinct; extinction is the rule, survival is the exception.” - Carl Sagan
 
Last edited:
It’s not just to be found in the fossil record but in what we find happening in the world today.

Were Darwin to travel to the Galapagos today, he would formulate quite a different theory.

What we do find today are great efforts being made to preserve species.

The Galapagos’ famous tortoises have been ravaged not only by us directly, but unrelentingly by mammals that we introduced and have invaded the islands. Specifically there is ratus ratus, the black rat who will eat tortoises younger than two years. There aren’t as many wild pigs, but they apparently will go after tortoises up to four years of age.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

This is the true reality of natural selection, and is in contrast to the effort and rationality that is creation, with its beauty and order, as well as the care it reveals.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

If in weren’t for our efforts in the case of the mangrove finch, for example, from what I was told by a source close to the scene, at a cost of about 20K USD each, to collect and raise chicks, they might no longer exist. A common fly, Philornis downsi, which was brought accidentaly to the islands in the 1960s, lays its eggs in the finches’ nests. When the larvae hatch, in addition to feeding on the fledgling’s blood, sufficiently to kill some, they cause a deformation of the developing beak, rendering them incompatable with life.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

That battle continues, as do others.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

The two pillars of evolutionary theories are random mutation and natural selection. We see in the Galapagos today what are the consequences are of natural selection. As to random mutation of the genome, Darwin would be careful to put on sunscreen today, because we know what happens in reality to our genetic code under the effect of random physical influences, be they radiation, toxins, viruses, or the glitches that happen in any process because nothing is 100% efficient.

The only way to explain the existence of anything, especially life, not to mention we ourselves who here are discussing these matters, is creation.
 
Last edited:
ProdglArchitect said:
The Bible is not a scientific textbook, it is the story of God’s love for humanity. The specific methods of creation, whether immediate or over the course of billions of years, is inconsequential to the question of human salvation, which is the primary focus of the texts. The Bible does not need to discuss the mechanics of creation, in part because the people to whom the OT was related would have had zero basis for understanding the complex mechanics of astrophysics and evolution. It’s just not important to the question of God’s sovereignty and human salvation.
Click to expand...
Although it is not its intent, I would still see it as a scientific book in the sense that it describes creation as it was understood at the time when it was first written down, possibly by Adam himself.

We are talking about reality and to assume that how we understand the universe today would be anything but quaint superstition many thousands of years from now is simply hubris.

Science evolves, in the sense that it grows in complexity although it involves anything but random activity. There are life-times of hard work that go into the formulating of the basic concepts we so easily take for granted.

Let’s take a lesson from what we find in the Galapagos.

From the amorphous lava, the sky above, and the water all around, life established itself.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

“And God called the dry land, Earth; and the gathering together of the waters, he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
And he said: let the earth bring forth green herb, and such as may seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after its kind, which may have seed in itself upon the earth. And it was so done.”

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

“And the earth brought forth the green herb, and such as yieldeth seed according to its kind, and the tree that beareth fruit, having seed each one according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.”

“God also said: let the waters bring forth the creeping creature having life, and the fowl that may fly over the earth under the firmament of heaven.”

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

And God created the great whales, and every living and moving creature, which the waters brought forth, according to their kinds, and every winged fowl according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
And he blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the waters of the sea: and let the birds be multiplied upon the earth."

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

“And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds, and cattle, and every thing that creepeth on the earth after its kind. And God saw that it was good.”

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

They utilized science, describing what they saw in the world about them, how barren places gradually became filled with life.
 
Last edited:
Are trees, flowers, and blades of grass currently trying to grow eyes and ears to see and hear the world around them?
 
bobperk said:
Are trees, flowers, and blades of grass currently trying to grow eyes and ears to see and hear the world around them?
Click to expand...
What does that have to do with evolution? There is no teleology in evolution.
 
IWantGod said:
40.png
buffalo:
Catholics should not doubt Scripture.
Click to expand...
How are they doubting scripture? In what sense are they doubting it?

I think you should always strive for a reasonable faith and not just follow blindly some popular interpretation just because you grew up on it… Surprisingly when i really did my research i found out the Church was on my side.
Click to expand...
You will find that some cling so tenaciously to their beliefs (as opposed to the facts) that they will specifically state that they are right and the church is wrong.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top