Why you should think that the Natural-Evolution of species is true

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ProdglArchitect:
I believe they eventually became extinct due to competition from rational humans, or due to shifts in climate and resources
No mention of them in Genesis. Funny that - you’d reckon Adam and Eve’s parents, if not some of their other close relatives, would at least get a mention.
The fact that something is not mentioned in Genesis, which was never intended as a comprehensive history textbook, is a faulty argument for something not existing. Of course things like that can exist without being mentioned in Genesis.
That climate change must have come on pretty quickly! And none of the soul-less humans survived? Not even one?
Perhaps their descendants still exist today. Chimps, perhaps? They evolved too.
I favor the second clause, as it can also provide an explanation for the story of the Nephilim
But the Nephilim were giants - how do humans produce giant offspring? Plus, my Ignatius Catholic Study Bible suggests the Nephilim were the offspring of fallen angels who mated with human women (see Genesis 6, Jude 6, 2Peter 2).
“Suggests”? That’s not doctrine. As for giants being something extraordinary, that could well be a poetic exaggeration. Genesis is not literal history.
 
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Wozza:
it’s the best scientific answer we have. Period. We need go no further as to tbe process. We agree that we have the best scientific answer available.
With evolutionary theories, science oversteps its bounds, those that are imposed by empiricism. That approach to the structure of things works to some degree as far as we are dealing with the simplest - matter, at least allowing us to build some pretty fantastic things. But, when we approach more complex existent forms, different approaches are required.

Let’s jump to the human strata of what is. We have such fields as psychology, sociology, political science and economics, not to mention philosphy and theology, to describe our relationships with reality. These are very much more complex than the simple and still enigmatic workings of matter. To begin to address how we got here, we have to understand who we are, and science cannot explain more than the constituent parts that are brought together as one whole, you and me.

In trying to explain how we got here based on a simplistic understanding of the person, trying to explain the origins of this resulting homunculus, the picture becomes increasingly distorted. The scientific data, although always a work in progress is actually fine with creation, which better puts it all together, but the mythos of our times, which justifies our behaviour towards one another and towards God, is naturally going to be accepted, albeit pseudoscience and untrue.
Good grief, Al. More word salad. You are always determined to muddy the water. It’s crystal clear. And even Edgar agrees. The best scientific explanation for life as we know it is evolution by natural means. God’s natural means. Under God’s guidance. To achieve God’s will.

Any sign of an atheist agenda there? Any indication that God is denied? Any proposal that He is not involved? Any claim that we are not God’s creatures? Any demand that we accept only science as the answer to everything?

I see none. And you see none. Because there is none. But I’m sure that won’t prevent another stream-of-consciousness post containing words like pseudoscience, homunculus and mythos.

I’m going back to skipping your posts. You have your own agenda. It bears no relationship to the conversation.
 
More word salad.
As a student of human communication, this feed back is fascinating. You do understand that what I write is perfectly clear to me and appropriate to the conversation, as an attempt to advance the discussion. I’ve had that said before about what I’ve written. I get that if something sounds meaningless, it will be skipped.

All the best in your search for your issues to which you allude to here:
Any sign of an atheist agenda there? Any indication that God is denied? Any proposal that He is not involved? Any claim that we are not God’s creatures? Any demand that we accept only science as the answer to everything?
You appear to have missed the point I was trying to make.
 
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Now from a Christian point of view, the question that needs to be answered is this: Did the process use God’s natural laws in a manner which He conceived, or did He use supernatural means?

The answer has already been decided. Because we have agreed that we can understand how natural laws governed the process. If it was done supernaturally - outside of natural laws, then we wouldn’t be able to formulate any theories for the process.
All it means is that a literal, fundamentalist reading of scripture conflicts with the process. So you pays your money and you makes your choice.
The fact is no evolutionist knows for certain whether God used an evolutionary process in the production of the world and its manifold variety of creatures, it’s a belief system. What is certain for the christian believer is that God is the Creator of the world and thus creationism is connatural for the christian believer. Indeed, the very foundation of the catholic and christian faith is belief in God the Creator.

‘In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth’ (Gen. 1:1). Thus, the first article of the catholic and christian profession of faith is:
‘I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible’ (Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed).
‘I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth’ (Apostles Creed).

The faith of christians is substantially the same faith of the fathers of old. Of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, the prophets, all the sacred writers of the Old Testament.
You can accept the process as part of God’s plan which He has allowed to procede within His natural laws or you can demand a fundamentalist interpretation of the bible.

If the latter then head over to the threads discussing the pros and cons of gopher wood as a building material for arks.
Yeah, and the evolution fundamentalists can head over to the Nature International Journal of Science and debate over the distinction between male and female human beings or if there is a distinction. Check the following link out 😆

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/s...olicy-proposal-biological-sex-has-no-basis-in

Happy Thanksgiving All !!
 
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As I said, and keep saying, everyone accepts the theory of evolution as the best explanation for what we have at present. Except those that hold fundamentalist beliefs.

If you believe in a literal translation of the bible then thanks for letting us know. I won’t waste my time explaining the science to you.

But let me know if you want to start a discussion on boat building techniques for arks. Check this out in the interim:

 
Any sign of an atheist agenda there? Any indication that God is denied? Any proposal that He is not involved? Any claim that we are not God’s creatures? Any demand that we accept only science as the answer to everything?
An atheist does not see God. We all try to connect with others, sharing our world view. Obviously, since evolution provides a description of how we got here, it will be accepted as truth by most, whatever minor details the person will say are up to science to discover. Evolution is fact for the vast majority of atheists.

Once we place God at the centre of everything, we see Him bringing matter into existence, events that exist as themselves and are integrated (particles become entangled) into some greater holistic system (appearing as a wave rather than isolated particle). These encompassing systems, as do the building blocks of chemical reactions, atoms, have a being that is greater than the individual constituent parts. God brings all this into existence; beyond the chemical we have the microbiological, beyond that the botanical and zoological, and ultimately we have mankind. When we free the actual scientific data from the constraints of evolution, we find creation of individual kinds of creatures, including our own being, here as one person enganged in a discussion with others. Evolution would be still inconsequential, even if it didn’t fall very far short of providing an explanation for the flowering of life on earth. Science in fact will never be able to do so, although the information it does reveal adds to what we can know of God’s glory.

Science obviously cannot provide an answer to everything, and in formulating a theory of evolution, those who individually and collectively try to do so have provided a grossly distorted image, which people are believing because it is what they are told. While the system of ideas may be consistent within itself, it fails to correspond to reality, which to understand requires that we go beyond the limited understanding of nature provided by empirical science.
 
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I accept that evolution is the best scientific (“natural”) answer, but since God was involved in the process, a “natural” answer is probably miles from the truth.
Don’t we miss the first-string atheists? At least they argued to OP’s question.

Rather than argue the topic, the newbees argue against, “Why you should think that supernatural devolution is true?”

The topic asks about the quality of the science underpinning the natural evolution of species theory. First, as noted ad nauseum, this theory is not empirical science but historiographical, that is speculative. Second, the claim that this is the best “scientific argument” for species begs the question. Would I drink the “best Kool-Aid” the kids ever made? No.
 
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As I said, and keep saying, everyone accepts the theory of evolution as the best explanation for what we have at present. Except those that hold fundamentalist beliefs.
Accepts? Many people accept false ideas. It is not an argument for the truth.

ID is a better explanation.
 
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Wozza:
The best natural answer we have to the question as to how we physically came to be is evolution.
I accept that evolution is the best scientific (“natural”) answer, but since God was involved in the process, a “natural” answer is probably miles from the truth.
This is an argument from the natural sciences point of view. It’s possible from the point of view of philosophical science, metaphysics, and natural theology, evolution is not the best ‘natural’ or rational answer. The answer from the natural sciences is from considering the ‘accidents’ of things but not from considering the substance of things which is a deeper layer of reality and structure of beings. Also, the modern natural sciences limit themselves to the consideration of but a few, such as the material and efficient causes, of the classic philosophical/metaphysical four causes of things.

Happy Thanksgiving!!
 
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Wozza:
As I said, and keep saying, everyone accepts the theory of evolution as the best explanation for what we have at present. Except those that hold fundamentalist beliefs.
Accepts? Many people accept false ideas. It is not an argument for the truth.

ID is a better explanation.
Thanks for proving the point I was making.
 
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Edgar:
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Wozza:
The best natural answer we have to the question as to how we physically came to be is evolution.
I accept that evolution is the best scientific (“natural”) answer, but since God was involved in the process, a “natural” answer is probably miles from the truth.
This is an argument from the natural sciences point of view. It’s possible from the point of view of philosophical science, metaphysics, and natural theology, evolution is not the best ‘natural’ or rational answer. The answer from the natural sciences is from considering the ‘accidents’ of things but not from considering the substance of things which is a deeper layer of reality and structure of beings.

Happy Thanksgiving!!
Try as I might I cannot reference evolution in any way other than via the natural sciences. Neither, as it turns out, can you. Evolution is ONLY concerned with natural science. If you want to discuss metaphysics and natural theology then you’ll find those departments down the corridor on the left. Tell them Wozza sent you.

And it’s not Thanksgiving for everyone. Some of us are still celebrating Mohammeds birthday.
 
The answer from the natural sciences is from considering the ‘accidents’ of things but not from considering the substance of things which is a deeper layer of reality and structure of beings.
The result of not considering the substance of things, is that realities such as that of different kinds of things reproducing their own kind are only superficially considered. Although the appearance may change, resulting in our classifying members of one kind of living thing as different species, cats still give rise to cats and human beings to human beings. There is more than the genetics, more than the accompanying cellular processes, more than simply the material dimension to the reality of an organism. If one neglects that, focussing on material changes as the fundamental reality of anything in the universe, a facile answer is that all life is linked as a chain of ancestral descent, the tree or bush of life. The theory is invalid in that it does not correspond to reality.

The issue is evolution’s portrayal as science, when it is merely an unprovable, untestable interpretation of the facts. The actual science is fine for the most part, and better fitting a model of creation.

The substance of things to my mind is not a deeper layer of reality, but the most obvious, what we always know, such as the reality of our own existence, and as we grow in our relationship with God, that ultimately He is more real, more true than we ourselves.
 
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As I said, and keep saying, everyone accepts the theory of evolution as the best explanation for what we have at present. Except those that hold fundamentalist beliefs.
A lot of people believe in God the creator of all that is seen and unseen. That is apart from atheists fundamentalists.
 
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Wozza:
As I said, and keep saying, everyone accepts the theory of evolution as the best explanation for what we have at present. Except those that hold fundamentalist beliefs.
A lot of people believe in God the creator of all that is seen and unseen. That is apart from atheists fundamentalists.
No problem with that. Especially as it doesn’t contradict what I said.
 
In case you didn’t notice, this is a philosophy forum.
So it is. And the subject today is Natural Evolution. Which can only be discussed within the context of natural sciences. So you can only discuss the philosophy of evolution (there isn’t any so you’ll have nothing to say) or discuss it in the context of natural science (which apparently you don’t want to do). Either way I don’t expect any more posts from you.

And hey, I didn’t start the thread. I can only the play the cards I’m dealt.
 
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Techno2000:
How many semi human creatures got souls ?
The offspring of a souled human and a no-souled human would be a half-souled human, wouldn’t it? (… that is to say, a rational and immortal soul.)
Then further along the family tree, there could be quarter-souled humans, eight-souled humans, one-sixteenth-souled humans, etc. Apparently, none of these part-of-a-soul humans survived - not even the ones with 1/2048 of a soul.
Yeah… I still don’t get it.Did God one day start raining down immortal souls on these creatures, or was it just on Adam and Eve’s creature parents ?
 
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Edgar:
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Techno2000:
How many semi human creatures got souls ?
The offspring of a souled human and a no-souled human would be a half-souled human, wouldn’t it? (… that is to say, a rational and immortal soul.)
Then further along the family tree, there could be quarter-souled humans, eight-souled humans, one-sixteenth-souled humans, etc. Apparently, none of these part-of-a-soul humans survived - not even the ones with 1/2048 of a soul.
Yeah… I still don’t get it.
There’s nothing else to say.
 
We DO have explantions of what happened and we DO have explantions of how it happened. And as you yourself said earlier, it’s the best scientific answer we have. Period.
Yeah…except when it come to how life started y’all scream…THAT’S ABIOGENESIS NOT EVOLUTION !!!
 
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