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edwest211
Guest
A perfect explanation.
Why you should think that the Natural-Evolution of species is true
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Techno2000
Guest
Wow…this is great news, you escaped from the Re-education camp !
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rossum
Guest
And your evidence that this was designed rather than evolved is…?
Mere existence does not prove ID. You need more evidence, ed.
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Aloysium
Guest
The latter post explains some of what we have found regarding cellular physiology, basically what is happening at a molecular level as I type these words out and as the reader takes in the written screen. To understand what is happening here and now, across a certain span of time, we have to go beyond the material. This one reality is clearly also a psychological event, as well as possessing a spiritual or ontological structure. The reality of atoms, what they are, is subsumed into a greater ontological level of being that is the cellular, which in turn forms the strat of existence, ultimately shaped by that of the human spirit. If there is a disruption in the molecular process that form the cells, it will affect the functioning of those cells, and the order that is the person will be disrupted. The form of these words may break down, and/or their meaning become confused. It is the totality of that ordered system, from the embryonic stage to the developed adult form, that is a person. And, that person is an expression of what is human and what was first created in Adam.
We should remember that the physical sciences explain what we observe and are thereby reconstruct what has occurred at a material level, over the passage of time. They cannot ascribe a cause outside the relationships that exist between physical events. There was a time, when there was no life, no planets, no stars and galaxies, no molecules and no atoms. Physics and chemistry can only speak about what likely happened as each layer of creation was brought into existence, and assign the label of randomness to how the order that is the universe came to be.
In other words, to explain the existence of the relationships that constitute life, including our own, we have to appeal to what transcends those relationships. That there exists an underlying chaos or randomness to reality is one such belief; Pantheism, Naturalism, Deism and God are others. To understand the beginnings of things, theology would seem necessary.
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rossum
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Thank you for that reference, very interesting. A good example of how we can observe evolved complexity in living organisms.
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edwest211
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Your science only stance is noted. On a Catholic forum, it is not adequate. The Catholic Church can and does combine science and theology. You can’t. I understand. Science can’t. I get that.
I only accept what the Church teaches. And the Church recognizes that living things are designed.
The identity of man is not contained in science. Man’s true identity combines science and theology. Everyone reading needs to know that they are not walking bags of chemicals that can talk.
I only accept what the Church teaches. And the Church recognizes that living things are designed.
The identity of man is not contained in science. Man’s true identity combines science and theology. Everyone reading needs to know that they are not walking bags of chemicals that can talk.
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Aloysium
Guest
We observe a multitude of standardized, highly organized, interrelated physical events that regulate cell function, not only for the cell’s own existence, but also, in multicellular creatures, to establish its role in a particular tissue, which in turn is part of an organ, interacting with other systems to maintain the organism in harmony with its environment
The qualifier “evolved” is an interpretation of the complexity that is the individual organism, a whole, a unity which possesses a different set of relational capacities than those inherent in its constituent parts. For example, we, as individuals, can know things, speak, feel, argue and make observations as one person, whereas molecules relate to each other through electrochemical forces. The word “created” is superior to “evolved”, because this did not happen by itself, but requires a transcendent act of creation from eternity.
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rossum
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I do not combine science and Catholic theology because I am Buddhist. When required I combine science and Buddhist theology. Why would I want to combine correct science with an incorrect theology?
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rossum
Guest
Incorrect. Leonardo created the Mona Lisa. That did not require “a transcendent act of creation from eternity.” You are making a very large unsupported assumption here.
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Aloysium
Guest
Most certainly, Leonardo does not bring the painting physically into existence, for its duration in time and space, as does God, from His eternal Now. However, we should consider how the interplay of imagination, memory, visual feedback, and manual dexterity, requiring the physical realities of brain and artistic tools, seeking to express the beauty, truth/mysteries, and creativity that belong to the spiritual realm, art emerges. In his example we can understand how every moment lies at the intersect of time and eternity. From that centre, we act, participating in our own creation, through what we do, what we bring into the world, with what we have been given.
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edwest211
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All creativity comes from God.
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edwest211
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Flagged. characters
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rossum
Guest
So you have no answer to my perfectly valid point.
Thank you for admitting defeat, or would you prefer to explain the origin of Satan’s creativity? After all, if God created everything (except Himself) then who created Satan?
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Aloysium
Guest
Satan lacks any creativity and whatever good he could do was destroyed when he corrupted mankind. This fact is depicted in his losing his arms. Evil is an absence of love, and along with that is beauty, truth and goodness. He lives in and off the dust from which we are made, death in other words. Angels are messengers of God, who have the capacity to do His will or not, to give themselves totally to Him or choose themselves. While we do this over a life time, they made that decision instantaneously, at their creation. What Satan does is lie, telling us that we can be happy focussed on serving ourselves or other lesser wordly gods, such as wealth, fame, power and pleasure. And, we fall for it, in the end meeting the despair that comes with holding on to transient and illusory goods. Dante portrays him as a frozen demon, at the center of Hell, his bat-like wings creating a cold wind that is felt throughout Hell and into the world. He is considered to have been created the most perfect of God’s creatures, Lucifer, the Angel of Light, entering into darkness, to hide the ugliness of evil, which sucks the goodness of creation into itself. The universe is grounded in Love, anything that is not love will perish, into the emptiness that is Satan.
But, in the end God’s will is done. If we consider His role is to reveal the glory of God, that this was the perfection, the beauty with which he was blessed, and which he took for himself, we see that he, in fact, did play a significant part in doing just that. In spite of his efforts, through the incarnation, death and resurrection of our Lord, Jesus Christ, God reveals the depths of His love.
In this thread we talk about the meaning in Genesis that has to do with the physical universe, but there is far more, on both a psychological and especially a spiritual level. We can understand, for example that mankind in the Garden represents our relational nature. It is filled with various trees, our artistic, mathematical, linguistic, social, scientific and other capacities capacities. We are meant to share with one another those wonders. What we are not meant to do is to usurp God’s will. What lies at the Centre of the Garden that is our existence, are the trees of eternal life and knowledge of good and evil. These are symbolic of Jesus Christ, the Eucharist and the cross, present not only on Golgotha, but also in the wood of the ark, the wood carried on Isaac’s back, as he climbed the mountain with his father Abraham, and that of the door frames covered in lambs blood in the passover. Scripture can be understood as a revelation of the Word of God, beginning with Genesis and elaborated in the story of mankind’s relationship with God, ending with His coming into this world. This is just a taste of what it tells us.
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rossum
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But Satan did God’s will when he destroyed Job’s family and workers. God Himself gave them over to Satan to do whatever he wanted. Thus Satan’s actions then were in accordance with God’s expressed will. How can actions in accordance with God’s will not be good?
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edwest211
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A flag is waiting for your off-target speculation.
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edwest211
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You have anger.
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rossum
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And you have no effective response to my point about Satan.
I am still waiting for your evidence of any deity creating a new species. This is science; you need evidence to support your position.
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edwest211
Guest
I reject the science only explanation. It is incomplete. As I wrote, only the Catholic Church can combine science and theology. You reject Catholic theology.
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