Why you should think that the Natural-Evolution of species is true

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Still dodging the incoherence of you worldview.

Once again, rossum has the better of you. Rossum’s views are at least coherent; yours not so much.
 
But do you concede the above?
Read up on Teilhard de Chardin’s philosophy. He attempted (and failed) to fully integrate his faith and evolution.

While we reject his notion that potential explains how life emerged from non-life, we can accept that once living organisms came into being that those organisms that had the potential to see evolved the sensory organ to do so.
 
Belief in a soul is not universal. Buddhism denies the existence of a soul, whether of the Abrahamic or the Hindu versions.
There’ve been problems since the Tower of Babel incident.

What we have here is an issue having to do with the meaning of what is a soul.

Let’s investigate the reality of what we mean when we say “me”.

There clearly is a collection of molecules that comprises our body. Is my body me? Well, yes and no; yes because that is the centre of the referential frame which forms one’s perceptions, understandings and feelings. A cerebral vascular accident here or there will seriously alter any of these relationships we have with the world around us. At the same time, no, it’s not me because the myriad of atoms and molecules come and go as part of the totality that is the universe.

Then we have the hero of our individual life script, the central character who faces trials and tribulations, meets success and suffers failure and pain. While the little guy who sat on his dad’s shoulders, grabbed the ball from his little brother, day-dreamed in school, met and married his wife is “me”, that character is but a part of something greater, transcendent to that social self, as a material, psychological and spiritual being grounded in the moment where all takes place.

And even though I, with free will clearly existing in relation to all that is other to my being, even though all these attributes would belong to me, I am not their cause. I do not bring myself into existence. Some would therefore say that there is nothing but the one true, infinite and eternal Source of all there is which we know to be God. All else is outside and transient to the Triune Godhead who brings all creation into existence.

Most Buddhist thinking understands reincarnation as part of a process towards Nirvana. I’m sure you believe it. In the end no one reaches their final Home in eternity; we approach it by divesting ourselves of sin, by blowing out the candle, by dying in and surrendering ourselves to Christ.
 
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As usual, you misrepresent the theory.
Argue the points. You are being rude.
God rarely has to override the laws of nature.
It is by an eternal act of His will that all creation is brought into existence.

The laws of nature represent our understanding of what God does, the cosmic symphony of events He brings into existence.

Everything in existence has a relational nature, composed of something and interacting with what is other to it, to contribute to a greater whole. With matter it is very simple and can be represented by the four basic forces of nature. As we get into being that has a vegetative “soul” or organizing principle if you like, we see the introduction of beings that grow and reproduce themselves utilizing pre-existing material forms of being to express their physical form. With regards to animals, in addition to these vegetative properties, we find a hierarchy of diverse shapes and behavioural interaction, growing in complexity and coming together to create an environment in which they participate. When we get to human beings we find ourselves having an eternal soul.

There is no over-riding but rather the introduction of the laws and principles that are nature’s structures and processes. Creation, not evolution is how this all started, happening over the course of six “days”.
 
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… we can accept that once living organisms came into being that those organisms that had the potential to see evolved the sensory organ to do so.
Which is not the same as you originally requested. Which was an effect (current life forms) posessing a PROPERTY that was not present in its cause (original life forms). Now we slide this to ‘potential’.

So man had the potential for sight so evolved sight and also had the potential for rationality/abstraction/art/tool making/farming (whatever you currently want to slot into the equation) yet could NOT evolve that. Because…well, simply because you don’t want to accept that.

I think all you have left is the plea: ‘But man is DIFFERENT!’

You should have started with that because that’s the only place left to go and it would have saved a lot of bandwidth.
 
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LeafByNiggle:
As usual, you misrepresent the theory.
Argue the points. You are being rude.
There is no point to argue. You said “guess the theory is…”. I just said that is not what the theory is.
God rarely has to override the laws of nature.
It is by an eternal act of His will that all creation is brought into existence.

The laws of nature represent our understanding of what God does, the cosmic symphony of events He brings into existence.
…yes, I’m with you so far…
Everything in existence has a relational nature, composed of something and interacting with what is other to it, to contribute to a greater whole. With matter it is very simple and can be represented by the four basic forces of nature. As we get into being that has a vegetative “soul” or organizing principle if you like, we see the introduction of beings that grow and reproduce themselves utilizing pre-existing material forms of being to express their physical form. With regards to animals, in addition to these vegetative properties, we find a hierarchy of diverse shapes and behavioural interaction, growing in complexity and coming together to create an environment in which they participate. When we get to human beings we find ourselves having an eternal soul.
Yup, still with you.
There is no over-riding but rather the introduction of the laws and principles that are nature’s structures and processes. Creation, not evolution is how this all started, happening over the course of six “days”.
I’m with you all the way up to that last sentence. In that sentence you make it a dichotomy between creation and evolution. In fact there is no dichotomy. Creation is how it all started. And evolution is part of creation.
 
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Most Buddhist thinking understands reincarnation as part of a process towards Nirvana. I’m sure you believe it. In the end no one reaches their final Home in eternity; we approach it by divesting ourselves of sin, by blowing out the candle, by dying in and surrendering ourselves to Christ.
Off topic for this thread, but worth pointing out. Nirvana is not what you think it is. The Buddha attained nirvana when he became enlightened at age 35; he died age 80. For 45 years he was simultaneously living on earth and in nirvana.
Samsara does not have the slightest distinction from nirvana.
Nirvana does not have the slightest distinction from samsara.

Whatever is the end of nirvana, that is the end of samsara.
There is not even a very subtle slight distinction between the two.

– Nagarjuna, Mulamadhyamakakarika 25:19-20
rossum
 
Which is not the same as you originally requested. Which was an effect (current life forms) posessing a PROPERTY that was not present in its cause (original life forms). Now we slide this to ‘potential’.
Apparently, you need to evolve your memory as you have forgotten your last attempt to suggest I have “adjusted” my position. I re-post again my correction for you.
The truth does not “adjust” over time. To wit from 2016:

Continuing the discussion from Personhood - Definition:
Hello, I am discussing the value of human life, persons and animals with an atheist friend of mine. I’m trying to give explanations which are secular so that they can be something he can accept as an atheist.

1. How do you define personhood?
Unique to humans is an intellectual life characterized by reason, imagination and, most importantly, free will. These unvarying properties may exist as only potentialities at various stages of actualization (as in the unborn, catatonic, or demented) and, even if only pure potentialities, still constitute a human person at all times.
So man had the potential for sight so evolved sight …
That thought is a bit muddled. If the being is a man (human being) then there is no need to evolve what already exists. All human beings have the potential to see and most actualize it. So, show us this unsighted being that you claim we evolved from and then we can comment on its potentials.
 
Nirvana is not what you think it is.
Au contraire mon frere. But I do have an idea of why you might say so.
Samsara does not have the slightest distinction from nirvana.
Nirvana does not have the slightest distinction from samsara.

Whatever is the end of nirvana, that is the end of samsara.
There is not even a very subtle slight distinction between the two.

– Nagarjuna, Mulamadhyamakakarika 25:19-20
Exactly!

As an aside, to understand Buddhism, especially Zen, one should think of its pronouncements as more directions or interventions rather than statement of facts. With reference to the statement above, it is meant to stop the mind from searching and to be itself. Alternatively, since metaphysics operates at different levels of meaning, we may hear, told in Christian terms that this very moment exists within the infinite ocean of God’s compassion.
 
In fact there is no dichotomy. Creation is how it all started. And evolution is part of creation.
I do understand your belief system.

What I believe, as revealed in Genesis, is that God created the universe in a stepwise fashion. The presence of mankind on earth happened later and was as much creation as was that of light, of atoms, plants and animals. Nothing evolved in the creation of the first man. Our ancestry goes back to Adam and Eve, and only God before that. No primates in the family tree.
 
So, show us this unsighted being that you claim we evolved from and then we can comment on its potentials.
From wiki: ‘The most commonly accepted location of the root of the tree of life is between a monophyletic domain bacteria and a clade formed by Archaea and Eukaryota of what is referred to as the “traditional tree of life” based on several molecular studies. A very small minority of studies have concluded differently, namely that the root is in the domain Bacteria, either in the phylum Firmicutes or that the phylum Chloroflexi is basal to a clade with Archaea and Eukaryotes and the rest of Bacteria’.

In short, we evolved from bacteria. As did literally everything else. So if you follow your line of descent backwards, that’s where it started.

So your line of argument states that the bacteria had the potential for literally every single property of every single organism that has ever existed. Oh, except what you personally have decided are exceptions to that rule.
 
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LeafByNiggle:
In fact there is no dichotomy. Creation is how it all started. And evolution is part of creation.
I do understand your belief system.

What I believe, as revealed in Genesis, is that God created the universe in a stepwise fashion. The presence of mankind on earth happened later and was as much creation as was that of light, of atoms, plants and animals. Nothing evolved in the creation of the first man. Our ancestry goes back to Adam and Eve, and only God before that. No primates in the family tree.
You say that as if your final three sentences follows logically from what went before. It does not. I agree with the first part, but not your conclusion. I mean, it is OK for you to believe all of that, but it is also OK for me to believe differently and accept evolution as true.
 
Of course he was. The freewheeling evolution machine just lucked out and picked us? I don’t think so.
 
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