J
Joshua27
Guest
I’ll copy and paste a paper I was working on the attempt to explain this later today…I just wanted to “bump” it (and also auto-subscribe).
- Status
J
Joshua27
Guest
Here is why I believe:
I am who I am…I exist.
I know this to be true. By any other name, I would still be me, in mind, body and soul. Regardless of how I change myself – throughout my life – I know the truth (me) will never change. Even when I’m gone, I am me. This I know to be truth!
But how do I know I exist?
I know (without a doubt) that I exist simply because I affect the things and people around me. I awoke late from bed today and ran into the bathroom after spending an hour to catch-up on work (I work at home). And in brushing my teeth I realized that I will soon need a new toothbrush. Why? Because my constant use of my brush is causing it to wear…I am affecting a change on the toothbrush.
If I didn’t exist, I never would’ve purchased the toothbrush, and it would (perhaps) still rest perfectly in its package at the store; pristine, until another person affects a change on it (buys it or throws it away).
I live in an old apartment, and the floor creeks. So every step I take causes sounds and vibrations to emanate to the neighbors below me. And I know – from science – that every breath I take moves and changes the air in my environment: oxygen turns to carbon dioxide. Even talking to other people is considered a form of “affection”, although I don’t mean it in the traditional sense.
I exist because I affect other things and other people in my world. In other words: “The things I affect reflect my existence.”
But How can I support this premise? Is this truth for other things that exist?
I created a website. You’ll agree that “websites exist” (so to say). But why? My website exists because it affects people who visit it. I have products that can be purchased and downloaded; users have a little less money and disk space on their computers if they choose to receive my products. If my website didn’t exist it wouldn’t caused such a effect.
Truth 1: Everything that exists “affects” other things: person, place or thing; living and non-living.
How does something come into existence? How is something created?
Well…if I were to strip away all detail and all specifics; away with all unique complications and differences; spirituality and science…what minimum (bare-bones) process would I find?
Considering my human creation – I know my mother and father had a desire to create a sibling for my brother. They possessed all the resources, both physical and chemical/biological, to make me. Finally, all that was required of them was the work (time) to combine their resources. The result was me; a singularly unique being, created from pieces of my parents. But even if one was an “accident”…they’re parents still desired to come together. Even for “rape”, there was a parent who desired to come together (even with evil motivation).
What about something as lifeless as my website? What was required to make it?
Again, if I strip everything I’ve done down to its basic process, the result is the same:
1. Desire (Will/Soul) for my website to exist *.
2. Power/Resource (Spirit) – whether knowledge, money, professionals, technology (tools) or content (information & products) to make my website. Others would call these resources forms of Power: as in “knowledge is Power” or “Man Power” or “Money is Power”, etc.
3. Time (Work) to combine all the resources in a successful way to create my website. Effort takes time. Nothing is instantaneous. There is always (at least an infinitesimal) measurement that can be compared between a “past” (the original state) and a “present” (the new state) of anything created. The effort it takes to move between both states; the effort it takes to create, is “work”.
…anything that has been created – whether living or non living – is the result of these three forces; follows this basic process. So…
Truth 2: Desire (Will), Resource (Power) & Time (Work) are the 3 forces of creation.
“In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, and the earth was without form and was void. And darkness was upon the face of the deep.”
One can be sure that there was a beginning to our planet. Earth did not always exist. But we know it exists because we’re affected by it every day (Truth 1). The earth was created, because everything that “exists” was first created using the same process (Truth 2). But the particulars (or characteristics) of the three forces are scientific “unknowns”. The Source is unknown… So let’s solve for the unknown.
<Continued in Part 2…>*
I am who I am…I exist.
I know this to be true. By any other name, I would still be me, in mind, body and soul. Regardless of how I change myself – throughout my life – I know the truth (me) will never change. Even when I’m gone, I am me. This I know to be truth!
But how do I know I exist?
I know (without a doubt) that I exist simply because I affect the things and people around me. I awoke late from bed today and ran into the bathroom after spending an hour to catch-up on work (I work at home). And in brushing my teeth I realized that I will soon need a new toothbrush. Why? Because my constant use of my brush is causing it to wear…I am affecting a change on the toothbrush.
If I didn’t exist, I never would’ve purchased the toothbrush, and it would (perhaps) still rest perfectly in its package at the store; pristine, until another person affects a change on it (buys it or throws it away).
I live in an old apartment, and the floor creeks. So every step I take causes sounds and vibrations to emanate to the neighbors below me. And I know – from science – that every breath I take moves and changes the air in my environment: oxygen turns to carbon dioxide. Even talking to other people is considered a form of “affection”, although I don’t mean it in the traditional sense.
I exist because I affect other things and other people in my world. In other words: “The things I affect reflect my existence.”
But How can I support this premise? Is this truth for other things that exist?
I created a website. You’ll agree that “websites exist” (so to say). But why? My website exists because it affects people who visit it. I have products that can be purchased and downloaded; users have a little less money and disk space on their computers if they choose to receive my products. If my website didn’t exist it wouldn’t caused such a effect.
Truth 1: Everything that exists “affects” other things: person, place or thing; living and non-living.
How does something come into existence? How is something created?
Well…if I were to strip away all detail and all specifics; away with all unique complications and differences; spirituality and science…what minimum (bare-bones) process would I find?
Considering my human creation – I know my mother and father had a desire to create a sibling for my brother. They possessed all the resources, both physical and chemical/biological, to make me. Finally, all that was required of them was the work (time) to combine their resources. The result was me; a singularly unique being, created from pieces of my parents. But even if one was an “accident”…they’re parents still desired to come together. Even for “rape”, there was a parent who desired to come together (even with evil motivation).
What about something as lifeless as my website? What was required to make it?
Again, if I strip everything I’ve done down to its basic process, the result is the same:
1. Desire (Will/Soul) for my website to exist *.
2. Power/Resource (Spirit) – whether knowledge, money, professionals, technology (tools) or content (information & products) to make my website. Others would call these resources forms of Power: as in “knowledge is Power” or “Man Power” or “Money is Power”, etc.
3. Time (Work) to combine all the resources in a successful way to create my website. Effort takes time. Nothing is instantaneous. There is always (at least an infinitesimal) measurement that can be compared between a “past” (the original state) and a “present” (the new state) of anything created. The effort it takes to move between both states; the effort it takes to create, is “work”.
…anything that has been created – whether living or non living – is the result of these three forces; follows this basic process. So…
Truth 2: Desire (Will), Resource (Power) & Time (Work) are the 3 forces of creation.
“In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, and the earth was without form and was void. And darkness was upon the face of the deep.”
One can be sure that there was a beginning to our planet. Earth did not always exist. But we know it exists because we’re affected by it every day (Truth 1). The earth was created, because everything that “exists” was first created using the same process (Truth 2). But the particulars (or characteristics) of the three forces are scientific “unknowns”. The Source is unknown… So let’s solve for the unknown.
<Continued in Part 2…>*
J
Joshua27
Guest
<…Continuation of Part 1>
Yet we know that for every creation there must be a Force of Will, The Power, and Work (measured in Time)…but something is missing in this equation. These three forces always come from a source. So we must solve the equation for the unknown source (“?”):
Take “Desire(Will)” and “Resource(power)” and “Time(work)” from something to create something else…
? - [D(W) + R(P) + T(w)] = Something that Exists
…if we solve for the unknown, we find…
? = Something that Exists + [D(W) + R(P) + T(w)]
In other words, only something that exists – that possesses the added Desire, Resources, and Time – can create something that exists. Let’s prove the equation to find a more simplified answer:
? - [D(W) + R(P) + T(w)] = Something that Exists
…we remove “that exists” from “something”…
{? - [D(W) + R(P) + T(w)] = Something that Exists} / that exists
(?/“that exists”) - ([D(W) + R(P) + T(w)]/“that exists”) = Something
…And if ? = Something that Exists + [D(W) + R(P) + T(w)]…then we can substitute “?” for the answer and simplify…
(Something + [D(W) + R(P) + T(w)]/“that exists”) - ([D(W) + R(P) + T(w)]/“that exists”) = Something
Something = Something
Truth 3: Something comes from Something (else)…and the common denominator is “that [it; that *something] exists”. So only something that exists can create something that exists.
From science we know that “Matter is neither created (from nothing), nor destroyed (absolutely), only transferred (or changed)”. In biology we know that we come from pieces of our parents, possess our parents’ DNA. And in every day life, the things we create could not “be” unless we were here to create them. Everything follows the basic formula for creation: “just take some desire, resource, and time from something that exists”.
Interestingly enough, science has also determined that everything, both living and non-living things are made from the same “stuff” (Resources) – science calls it atoms.
So again, if nothing is created (from nothing), only transferred and changed, this means everything that’s created is somehow an offshoot (or a branch) from its root parent/creator, connected through the same common “stuff” (resource/power) that made the parent, but it’s a wholly unique and different creation.
This means that we humans, the planets, our websites and man-made things, are all branches from the same root; connected because we’re made from the same stuff…just in different offshoots and variations. This means one thing…
Truth 4: All branches of creation – living and non-living; man-made and natural; planetary and extra-planetary – can subsequently be traced back to a singular “root”; a source; a parent…this is logic. We’re merely not yet intellegent enough to specifically trace the “family tree” all the way back.
Now it’s true that humans wrote the Bible. And whether the Bible was from divine inspiration makes no difference to you…although one could argue that just as a great, great, great grandchild is indirectly from the first parent, so is anything that’s created (such as a website…or the Bible) traced back to the root, merely because of Truth 4.
Again all that we are can be traced back to a singular source…that’s how life works. By holding onto all defined Truths, we say this Root (this source) was the beginning of “Will” represented as “Father”…has all/complete “Resource & Power” represented as "Holy (meaning “perfect or complete”) Spirit (meaning “power”)…and performs all “Work” represented as “Son” (meaning “one’s right hand”, “workmanship of one’s Hand” or “worker” [since most people use their right hand to do their work]).
Some Christian denominations differ in the personification of these three forces, but we all believe in these three forces.
<Continued in Part 3…>
Yet we know that for every creation there must be a Force of Will, The Power, and Work (measured in Time)…but something is missing in this equation. These three forces always come from a source. So we must solve the equation for the unknown source (“?”):
Take “Desire(Will)” and “Resource(power)” and “Time(work)” from something to create something else…
? - [D(W) + R(P) + T(w)] = Something that Exists
…if we solve for the unknown, we find…
? = Something that Exists + [D(W) + R(P) + T(w)]
In other words, only something that exists – that possesses the added Desire, Resources, and Time – can create something that exists. Let’s prove the equation to find a more simplified answer:
? - [D(W) + R(P) + T(w)] = Something that Exists
…we remove “that exists” from “something”…
{? - [D(W) + R(P) + T(w)] = Something that Exists} / that exists
(?/“that exists”) - ([D(W) + R(P) + T(w)]/“that exists”) = Something
…And if ? = Something that Exists + [D(W) + R(P) + T(w)]…then we can substitute “?” for the answer and simplify…
(Something + [D(W) + R(P) + T(w)]/“that exists”) - ([D(W) + R(P) + T(w)]/“that exists”) = Something
Something = Something
Truth 3: Something comes from Something (else)…and the common denominator is “that [it; that *something] exists”. So only something that exists can create something that exists.
From science we know that “Matter is neither created (from nothing), nor destroyed (absolutely), only transferred (or changed)”. In biology we know that we come from pieces of our parents, possess our parents’ DNA. And in every day life, the things we create could not “be” unless we were here to create them. Everything follows the basic formula for creation: “just take some desire, resource, and time from something that exists”.
Interestingly enough, science has also determined that everything, both living and non-living things are made from the same “stuff” (Resources) – science calls it atoms.
So again, if nothing is created (from nothing), only transferred and changed, this means everything that’s created is somehow an offshoot (or a branch) from its root parent/creator, connected through the same common “stuff” (resource/power) that made the parent, but it’s a wholly unique and different creation.
This means that we humans, the planets, our websites and man-made things, are all branches from the same root; connected because we’re made from the same stuff…just in different offshoots and variations. This means one thing…
Truth 4: All branches of creation – living and non-living; man-made and natural; planetary and extra-planetary – can subsequently be traced back to a singular “root”; a source; a parent…this is logic. We’re merely not yet intellegent enough to specifically trace the “family tree” all the way back.
Now it’s true that humans wrote the Bible. And whether the Bible was from divine inspiration makes no difference to you…although one could argue that just as a great, great, great grandchild is indirectly from the first parent, so is anything that’s created (such as a website…or the Bible) traced back to the root, merely because of Truth 4.
Again all that we are can be traced back to a singular source…that’s how life works. By holding onto all defined Truths, we say this Root (this source) was the beginning of “Will” represented as “Father”…has all/complete “Resource & Power” represented as "Holy (meaning “perfect or complete”) Spirit (meaning “power”)…and performs all “Work” represented as “Son” (meaning “one’s right hand”, “workmanship of one’s Hand” or “worker” [since most people use their right hand to do their work]).
Some Christian denominations differ in the personification of these three forces, but we all believe in these three forces.
<Continued in Part 3…>
D
DCNBILL
Guest
Because I have a personel relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Because God has guided the life of me and my family for the past 35 years through thick and thin. Because when I follow His will in my life I am happy and when I sin I am sad.
G
greggy53
Guest
I believe in God because of what we humans are and the condition of the world around us and our place in it. I became a Christian because in my opinion Christianity is the only religion that explains exactly who we are, why we are here and where we are going.
Indeed even for us to ask the question: “Why?”. Says that we are in a very real way different from all the other creatures here on earth…We are the same, and yet very different. Christianity is the only religion that can explain this and how the world got the way it is. How it can be so beautiful, and so deadly at the same time.
I am a Catholic Christian because I believe that historically and spiritually the Catholic Church is the one true Church established by God.
J
Joshua27
Guest
<Continued from Part 2>
"God created the world, the animals and man in six days…"
What makes this controversial is the time-frame. We have one group arguing that “god is God, and he can make anything as quickly as HE wants”…while another group dismisses the entire creation story and equally “god”, as the originating creator merely because “all of this can not be made in just six days”.
Personally, I believe both are correct…but let me explain.
Picture me: Here I am trying to use my limited reasoning powers (resources) to try to figure out what exactly happened back then, just like the original author of Genesis. And why would human reasoning be any different now than back then (we’re only between 3000-6000 years old)? We’re not that different.
Time is relative
Albert Einstein proved that time is relative: its rate/affect depends on the perspective of the person experiencing it. Here are a few more facts about time:
1. It may take one person (or “something that exists”) more time than another person to perform a specific task from the first person’s perspective.
2. Our lifespan differs between species: Humans (approx. 100-120yrs), Dogs (approx. 15-25yrs), and certain insects live for only 2 weeks. But - and this is important question - is any lifespan any less of a “lifetime” from that lifeform’s perspective?
3. Getting a little more specific, humans didn’t always count days on a 24hr solar cycle, nor was the span of a year always 365 days (as already stated on this thread).
“Six days” (as defined by present-day humans) is false…but it did take Time to create our world. Remember, Time(work) is one of the three forces of creation (Truth 2). And if we stand on our established Laws, thinking about Facts #1 & #2, We can conclude that our 100-year lives is but a flicker (just like the “2-week” insect); a brief moment in the lifetime of the original Being/Source…so a true “six days” could possibly be an unfathomable six trillion years from our perspective.
IN FACT…The bible speaks on the difference in time-scale between humans and God:
**2 Peter 3:8 **- But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
Psalms 90:4 - For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night.
Now, it’s important to understand that people of the past had no concept of “Million”, “Billion”, or “Trillion”. These were too big for them to comprehend. So often when “thousands” is spoken of it’s meant to represent “a very, VERY long time”.
God is Perfection, represented by the number “7”
All throughout the bible, and throughout human civilization, numbers are held to have significant meaning; to be characteristics of the person, place or thing the number represents. We attribute the number “7” to luck and good fortune, and divine perfection.
The number 7 represents divine perfection, so “7” represents God, and anything God initially creates is considered a “perfect” creation (i.e. “and he saw that all was good”).
God is the Alpha (beginning) and Omega (End) of everything…including Time(work) [what we call “Son”].
From our 3rd truth, we determined that everything comes from something, possessing the same “stuff” from the root. From this logic, we must conclude that everything – even Time(work) [what we call “the Son”] – comes from the root source.
So if God is perfect and if God is the beginning and end of all things that exist – even Time(work/Son) – then we must “invert” the relationship between “time” and “work” in relation to us when it comes to a work day.
Huh?
Here’s what I mean: For mankind, a day’s amount of “work” is determined (or lead) by the day [or time of day]. We begin our day’s work because a new day has begun, and we end our day’s work at the end of the finished day.
But for God, however…
If God is the beginning of time and the end of time, then - get this - the “work-day” relationship is turned on its head. So for God, a “Day” is determined when an “amount of work” is finished…and ONLY THEN is a “Day” complete.
So God’s “Days” can’t possibly be on the same timescale as our days…and more to the point, any one of God’s “Days” does not need to be the same length as any other one of God’s “Days”, simply because his day is complete only when HE has finished his work, so…
Truth 5: One of God’s “Day” is an “interval, fraction, or portion” of a Perfect amount of time needed by God to do something, which can span days, years, or millennia.
"God created the world, the animals and man in six days…"
What makes this controversial is the time-frame. We have one group arguing that “god is God, and he can make anything as quickly as HE wants”…while another group dismisses the entire creation story and equally “god”, as the originating creator merely because “all of this can not be made in just six days”.
Personally, I believe both are correct…but let me explain.
Picture me: Here I am trying to use my limited reasoning powers (resources) to try to figure out what exactly happened back then, just like the original author of Genesis. And why would human reasoning be any different now than back then (we’re only between 3000-6000 years old)? We’re not that different.
Time is relative
Albert Einstein proved that time is relative: its rate/affect depends on the perspective of the person experiencing it. Here are a few more facts about time:
1. It may take one person (or “something that exists”) more time than another person to perform a specific task from the first person’s perspective.
2. Our lifespan differs between species: Humans (approx. 100-120yrs), Dogs (approx. 15-25yrs), and certain insects live for only 2 weeks. But - and this is important question - is any lifespan any less of a “lifetime” from that lifeform’s perspective?
3. Getting a little more specific, humans didn’t always count days on a 24hr solar cycle, nor was the span of a year always 365 days (as already stated on this thread).
“Six days” (as defined by present-day humans) is false…but it did take Time to create our world. Remember, Time(work) is one of the three forces of creation (Truth 2). And if we stand on our established Laws, thinking about Facts #1 & #2, We can conclude that our 100-year lives is but a flicker (just like the “2-week” insect); a brief moment in the lifetime of the original Being/Source…so a true “six days” could possibly be an unfathomable six trillion years from our perspective.
IN FACT…The bible speaks on the difference in time-scale between humans and God:
**2 Peter 3:8 **- But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
Psalms 90:4 - For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night.
Now, it’s important to understand that people of the past had no concept of “Million”, “Billion”, or “Trillion”. These were too big for them to comprehend. So often when “thousands” is spoken of it’s meant to represent “a very, VERY long time”.
God is Perfection, represented by the number “7”
All throughout the bible, and throughout human civilization, numbers are held to have significant meaning; to be characteristics of the person, place or thing the number represents. We attribute the number “7” to luck and good fortune, and divine perfection.
The number 7 represents divine perfection, so “7” represents God, and anything God initially creates is considered a “perfect” creation (i.e. “and he saw that all was good”).
God is the Alpha (beginning) and Omega (End) of everything…including Time(work) [what we call “Son”].
From our 3rd truth, we determined that everything comes from something, possessing the same “stuff” from the root. From this logic, we must conclude that everything – even Time(work) [what we call “the Son”] – comes from the root source.
So if God is perfect and if God is the beginning and end of all things that exist – even Time(work/Son) – then we must “invert” the relationship between “time” and “work” in relation to us when it comes to a work day.
Huh?
Here’s what I mean: For mankind, a day’s amount of “work” is determined (or lead) by the day [or time of day]. We begin our day’s work because a new day has begun, and we end our day’s work at the end of the finished day.
But for God, however…
If God is the beginning of time and the end of time, then - get this - the “work-day” relationship is turned on its head. So for God, a “Day” is determined when an “amount of work” is finished…and ONLY THEN is a “Day” complete.
So God’s “Days” can’t possibly be on the same timescale as our days…and more to the point, any one of God’s “Days” does not need to be the same length as any other one of God’s “Days”, simply because his day is complete only when HE has finished his work, so…
Truth 5: One of God’s “Day” is an “interval, fraction, or portion” of a Perfect amount of time needed by God to do something, which can span days, years, or millennia.
C
crazzeto
Guest
Because as St. Paul says, the evidence of God is all around us. I’ve come to see his handywork everywhere. I was a cradle catholic, so that helped some… But St. Paul him self, more specifically his conversion helped keep me from losing faith. Simply put, it makes no sense what so ever if there isn’t a God, more over if Christ isn’t truely God.
I’ve also come to truely appriciate the wisdome of genuine Christianity lived in daily life. This one took a lot of work, as over the years my views on many subjects became disored i.e. I didn’t see the problem with Gay marriage, I thought not using brith control was stupid etc (yep even with my Catholic roots). My positions on these matters have changed considerbly,
C
CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
Very few Christians believe that the creation account is literal. You are beating a dead horse here.
A
AlaricTeudisson
Guest
Despite not being Catholic, here is my take on it.
I have pretty much always believed in a god. Just not the God. It has always seemed more reasonable to believe in some sort of creator or at least a unifying force than believing in no god at all. So my search (and God’s call) ultimately led me to believing in a Theistic personal God. But, before that happened I explored all sorts of crazy stuff. Absolutely ridiculous now in retrospect. Funny, at the time I considered myself a spiritual and relatively good person. Did not know how bad off and lost I really was.
From there it only took an intensive Wednesday night bible study class (that lasted 36 weeks) for me to become a believer in Jesus Christ.
Now it seems so logical and reasonable to be a Christian. But, I can appreciate where you are coming from, 10 years ago it absolutely did not. For me, God’s call took the form of an emptiness inside me. A lack of meaning and purpose for my life and all humanity.
So, I did not jump instantly to being a Christian. It was a winding tortuous path. From impersonal god to Personal God to Jesus.
I will say a prayer that your faith journey will ultimately end up with Christ.
Jeff
I have pretty much always believed in a god. Just not the God. It has always seemed more reasonable to believe in some sort of creator or at least a unifying force than believing in no god at all. So my search (and God’s call) ultimately led me to believing in a Theistic personal God. But, before that happened I explored all sorts of crazy stuff. Absolutely ridiculous now in retrospect. Funny, at the time I considered myself a spiritual and relatively good person. Did not know how bad off and lost I really was.
From there it only took an intensive Wednesday night bible study class (that lasted 36 weeks) for me to become a believer in Jesus Christ.
Now it seems so logical and reasonable to be a Christian. But, I can appreciate where you are coming from, 10 years ago it absolutely did not. For me, God’s call took the form of an emptiness inside me. A lack of meaning and purpose for my life and all humanity.
So, I did not jump instantly to being a Christian. It was a winding tortuous path. From impersonal god to Personal God to Jesus.
I will say a prayer that your faith journey will ultimately end up with Christ.
Jeff
T
Terry_McCann
Guest
It’s hard to explain EXACTLY why I believe. It is a mixture of intellect, research (majored in world religion at Uni and studied religions most of my adult life) and inner feelings, combined with a sense of humilty for my sins. If anything, I would say it is something of a divine mystery. Although I must acknowledge that I have very weak faith.
S
SonCatcher
Guest
Faith (belief) itself is a gift from God given to those who make themselves available for it.
B
benidict
Guest
hi atheism123. in reallity, you are taking a leap of faith as far as disbelief goes. even atheist believe. they “believe” there is no God, or gods. you cannot observe or prove that there is no God. so therefore you still have faith, its just not placed in a higher power. would this be a correct assessment in your view? i had a very good friend in basic training who was atheist. his parents were baptist, and had no idea. until he went home for exodus, and they read his dogtags…
made for an interesting christmas, i can tell you. peace 
F
FaithJoy
Guest
Faith does not apply only to religion.In my opinion, it takes a lot larger leap of faith to believe that a singularity from nothingness created everything ( big bang) . Belief in God makes more sense in that the leap of faith isn’t as large and more logical. Anyway,assuming you are accepting the most popular science cause(big bang), the big bang violates the 1st law of thermodynamics. After seeing many more contradictions in science that I’ve seen in many years, God seems more and more logical cause of the universe. I’m taking a science approach here because it seems most atheist try to disprove the existence of God through science which is faulty. I recommend you read the Bible. If you already have, read it again. While you read it, ask yourself “what are the odds of that to happen without God?” Mostly on prophecy and consistency.
God be with you in your journey.
God be with you in your journey.
B
Berean2
Guest
The answer to your question has 2 parts: (1) the evolution (heh) of becoming a Christian & (2) continuing as a Christian.
The first one also has 2 parts: God’s “side” of it and the “human” side of it. Let me explain: while I can look back now, decades into my spiritual walk, and see my pre-Christian quest back then over the years, at the time, I didn’t recognize I was on a “spiritual reconnaissance mission,” nor did I understand how certain things were “moving” me into eventually “intersecting” with His Gospel and with Him. Even before I came to Christ at age 21, I had a distant belief that there was a Supreme Being (by distant, I mean that it meant absolutely nothing to me in my everday life; it was one of many impersonal facts that I held to be true, like “Washington was the first president” and “Snow doesn’t fall during hot weather”); God was simply the First Cause of the universe and life (not that I could’ve phrased it that way in those days). But I had no use for the Bible, or for any sort of dogma, corporate worship, etc. Unaware that true Christianity is not mere ritualism/formalism, I had a longstanding allergy to “religion” from repeated exposure to spiritually wizened churches (Baptist, Lutheran [both American and German], Catholic—no, I am not saying that each of those brands of Christianity is dead, but simply that the particular worship services I experienced off and on over the years in those 3 denominations were as life-giving as swallowing sand [Folks, please refrain from an off-topic side thread here about the RCC not being a denom.]).
As far back as when I was 3, the spiritual part of me was already starting to sprout: on a spectacular windswept Huntsville afternoon, when the sky was a radiant azure and the giant puffy white clouds looked as though they were spun from purest penguin chest feathers, as I lay on my back and gazed at that breathtaking splendor, suddenly, I sensed both an intense attraction to something that the Beauty was telling me about, as well as a deep sorrow. There was a paradoxical message in that poignant Beauty, but I could not decipher it. The contradiction puzzled & troubled me, but I soon forgot the whole incident. Only years later, after I had been a Christian for a while, did the resolution come to me; it is found in **Psalm **19:
The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.
Day to day pours out speech,
and night to night reveals knowledge.
There is no speech, nor are there words,
whose voice is not heard.
Their voice goes out through all the earth,
and their words to the end of the world.
Romans 1 says the same thing this way:
His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.
Only 3 years into my existence, then, the Magnificent Magnet of His handiwork had worked its first effect on me. Even now, His Creation still functions for me as the 3-D “picture book” supplement to the Bible (since that has no illustrations
): it tells me about Him in a very powerful language, each species (greenery, mountains, sea, critters, wind, etc.) in its own ideolect. As the Psalmist says, “Thou hast made me glad by the works of Thy hand.” I need to be out in His open air Art Gallery every day; it nourishes my faith and causes me to rejoice.(End of Part 1; concluding part continued below)
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Berean2
Guest
(Continued from above)
The next influence in my spiritual “ripening” was extensive reading of Shoah memoirs and other materials related to that event. At the age of 15, with my first 4 years of exposure to accounts of that calamity, I realized that everything in life is at bottom futile: your health, your degrees, your money, your marriage, your family and friends, knowledge, power, prestige, pleasure—even your life; all of it could go “poof” in a matter of minutes. It didn’t even have to be due to something as draconian as a marauding Brownshirt or Bloodshirt regime: it could be a Depression, a hurricane, a conflagration, a cyclone, or a flood. This insight culminated in my wanting to find a Meaning that transcended even death: what was there that not even death could impair or destroy? Still, I didn’t recognize that the “grail” I was seeking was of a spiritual nature. Nor did I realize then that what I was really after was a “Who,” not a “what.”
So I continued to read and question and ruminate. In highschool, I was first a Deist, then a pantheist (tho I didn’t know those terms then). My junior year of college, about 4-5 months before I came to faith, my mind settled on Existentialism as the adequate explanation of reality—my mind, yes, but not my soul: Soul bucked like a bronco. Soul knew that this philosophy was not The Answer. Soul had experienced a flash insight that EVERY human being throughout the ages is capable of the same atrocities that the Einsatzkommandos and Mengele committed.
What? Me?!? The clean-as-a-whistle, scrupulously law-abiding, non-drug-doing, non-boozing, non-fornicating, non-smoking, non-cussing, creative, constructive, productive A-student? I had the same basic cancer (albeit not as metastasized) as those Nazi beasts?!? This was staggering. Nor was there any way to extirpate the cancer, or extricate myself from it. It was a built-in quicksand pit. Whence deliverance then? I had no idea that this quandary was precisely what would prepare me to receive The Good News. Which is what I did then, Spring of that same year.
So there you have the genesisD) of my conversion—from the human perspective. From God’s end (as He reveals in His Word), He was drawing me the whole time; it wasn’t as if I could somehow take credit for my insights or my final acceptance of His Truth. His kindness (aka “mercy” or “grace”) had acted as a powerful invisible magnet.
Now, as to why I’ve continued as a Christian, to make a long story short, it’s the “extension,” if you will, of why I first came to Christ: the Gospel is the only thing that adequately (a) explains The Human Condition and the origin of existence and (b) provides man with deliverance from his deformed nature and its consequences (individually and corporately). That doesn’t mean I don’t still have all kinds of questions (theodicy is the biggest stumper for me), and sometimes doubts, too (about the peripheral things, not about the core Gospel or Creeds—Nicene and Apostles’), but none of those can kill off the conviction that (a) Jesus Christ is the Great Creator-Redeemer who came down in human form to deliver man from the fallout of that Grand Cosmic Mutation that befell us back in The Garden, and (b) He will one day restore the whole universe to its proper order (Romans 8)—what Jesus calls “The Regeneration” (Matthew 19:28).
The next influence in my spiritual “ripening” was extensive reading of Shoah memoirs and other materials related to that event. At the age of 15, with my first 4 years of exposure to accounts of that calamity, I realized that everything in life is at bottom futile: your health, your degrees, your money, your marriage, your family and friends, knowledge, power, prestige, pleasure—even your life; all of it could go “poof” in a matter of minutes. It didn’t even have to be due to something as draconian as a marauding Brownshirt or Bloodshirt regime: it could be a Depression, a hurricane, a conflagration, a cyclone, or a flood. This insight culminated in my wanting to find a Meaning that transcended even death: what was there that not even death could impair or destroy? Still, I didn’t recognize that the “grail” I was seeking was of a spiritual nature. Nor did I realize then that what I was really after was a “Who,” not a “what.”
So I continued to read and question and ruminate. In highschool, I was first a Deist, then a pantheist (tho I didn’t know those terms then). My junior year of college, about 4-5 months before I came to faith, my mind settled on Existentialism as the adequate explanation of reality—my mind, yes, but not my soul: Soul bucked like a bronco. Soul knew that this philosophy was not The Answer. Soul had experienced a flash insight that EVERY human being throughout the ages is capable of the same atrocities that the Einsatzkommandos and Mengele committed.
What? Me?!? The clean-as-a-whistle, scrupulously law-abiding, non-drug-doing, non-boozing, non-fornicating, non-smoking, non-cussing, creative, constructive, productive A-student? I had the same basic cancer (albeit not as metastasized) as those Nazi beasts?!? This was staggering. Nor was there any way to extirpate the cancer, or extricate myself from it. It was a built-in quicksand pit. Whence deliverance then? I had no idea that this quandary was precisely what would prepare me to receive The Good News. Which is what I did then, Spring of that same year.
So there you have the genesis
D) of my conversion—from the human perspective. From God’s end (as He reveals in His Word), He was drawing me the whole time; it wasn’t as if I could somehow take credit for my insights or my final acceptance of His Truth. His kindness (aka “mercy” or “grace”) had acted as a powerful invisible magnet.Now, as to why I’ve continued as a Christian, to make a long story short, it’s the “extension,” if you will, of why I first came to Christ: the Gospel is the only thing that adequately (a) explains The Human Condition and the origin of existence and (b) provides man with deliverance from his deformed nature and its consequences (individually and corporately). That doesn’t mean I don’t still have all kinds of questions (theodicy is the biggest stumper for me), and sometimes doubts, too (about the peripheral things, not about the core Gospel or Creeds—Nicene and Apostles’), but none of those can kill off the conviction that (a) Jesus Christ is the Great Creator-Redeemer who came down in human form to deliver man from the fallout of that Grand Cosmic Mutation that befell us back in The Garden, and (b) He will one day restore the whole universe to its proper order (Romans 8)—what Jesus calls “The Regeneration” (Matthew 19:28).
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Flame4
Guest
The thing is I can’t explain why i believe in God, why I am Catholic. I only know I am right. I just know, I just experience God. I can’t explain God, or why i believe in him. Its something you experience not explain.
I know thing isn’t going to convince you. It seems strange just saying it. However thats the reason.
I know thing isn’t going to convince you. It seems strange just saying it. However thats the reason.
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BryanM27
Guest
Atheism, to the OP I believe because I see the evidence all around me. In fact, the more science I have studied the more I have come to believe.
Take the big-bang theory. It is a fundamental rule that matter CANNOT be created or destroyed. If we hold that as true, then how did a giant ball of matter come to exist in the first place? And what spark turned that supposedly stationary ball full of potential energy into kinetic energy?
What causes the currents in the ocean to work the way that they do?
What sparked the sudden appearance of life on what was once a desolate planet?
Science can only take us so far. There must be a higher power that set all these things in motion. That is why I take so much issue with people who teach that it is either Evolution or Intelligent Design. Why can’t Evolution be the physical process of Intelligent Design?
A great story that I heard in HS was about a little girl who was very ill. She had to have a very risky surgery, and even if it was successful she still might not make it. After she made a full recovery the parents thanked the doctor for performing a miracle. The doctor said that he didn’t perform any miracles, he just created the conditions that allowed for the miracle to occur.
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Justin1982
Guest
I feel this needs hit one more time, I like explaining it because it is a good perspective answer. A human understands time as 24 hours however for God to reveal that He created the Heavens and the earth in seven days only speaks to a human understanding. However to God what is seven days? Seven days could be seven days or seven days could be 5 million years. Regardless it seems as though He wanted to give us an understanding of time and the basics of how we should conduct ourselves and comprehend time through the premise that we rest on the seventh day because God rested on the seventh day.
I believe because Catholicism is the only explanation that has made the most sense to me. To be an atheist you have to believe in humanity and that imperfect people are giving you the full story that they have understood through studies. The amount of bias that we feed each other is really hard to swallow at times. I lived a secular life for 25 years and nothing really made sense, Christianity gives purpose to humanity where humanity (through science) tries to degrade humanity to mere animal and animal instinct with material pleasures. I understand that America was better off when it self-identified as a Christian nation, was it perfect, no, but far more free than it is today. We were more modest, more respectful, and far more charitable towards each other when you look at actual history, not the bias that we are fed today.
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russell007
Guest
Faith is a gift from God I do not need God to be tangible to know he exist. Its as if every fiber of my being knows of God.
Infinity exist if you have ever checked out an applet for the mandelbrot set its a mathmatical look at infinity No matter how far you magnify on any fractal of your own choosing you can never reach the end and so it is with the creator.
youtube.com/watch?v=2tRdLD6vh3g&feature=related
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russell007
Guest
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