WHY???

  • Thread starter Thread starter Annie_B
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

Annie_B

Guest
ok. I understand that every church has it’s unusual (or what appears to others to be unusual) practices. This one totally blows me away and I have no idea what to make of it. On the surface it seems incredibly disrespectful to do this to anyone. Whatever happened to “Rest in PEACE”? Why must Pope John Paul II’s body/coffin be exhumed for the process of becoming a saint?

msnbc.msn.com/id/42819424/ns/world_news/

Annie
 
Don’t know. But like the other poster said his spirit isn’t in the ground. This question calls for a google search.
 
I assume for veneration, after all he is going to be declared Blessed soon!
 
Ok. Does that mean that the Catholic church teaches that anyone can do whatever they want to a dead body since the spirit is not in the ground? I really thought that there were some restrictions on handling a body after death. Most churches have such restrictions…
My thoughts of disrespect aside, WHY does the Cathoic church do this? Why can’t he just be left where he was originally burried? Just wondering…

Annie
 
I assume for veneration, after all he is going to be declared Blessed soon!
Can’t he be venerated even if he stays where he was originally burried? Does the Catholic church un-burry all their saints?
Annie
 
ok. I understand that every church has it’s unusual (or what appears to others to be unusual) practices. This one totally blows me away and I have no idea what to make of it. On the surface it seems incredibly disrespectful to do this to anyone. Whatever happened to “Rest in PEACE”? Why must Pope John Paul II’s body/coffin be exhumed for the process of becoming a saint?

msnbc.msn.com/id/42819424/ns/world_news/

Annie
Everyone who goes to heaven is a saint . We know that . However ,we have as you all know canonized saints recorded in books on earth. We recognize these people as extraordinary people who lived extraordinary lives for God . Pope John Paul II fits the criteria for being a canonized saint .
 
Can’t he be venerated even if he stays where he was originally burried? Does the Catholic church un-burry all their saints?
Annie
A possible reason is to check his state of decomposition. Certain Saints are known as Incorruptibles. Their body has decomposed either very, very slowly, or not at all.
 
Can’t he be venerated even if he stays where he was originally burried? Does the Catholic church un-burry all their saints?
Annie
Yes he can, but venerating HIM, and venerating his BODY are two different things. Maybe they’ll even take him out, to see if he in incorruptible when it comes time around for his canonisation as a Saint! (providing he wasn’t embalmed, and I can’t remember he was or not).

No, we don’t unbury all of our Saint, but we do some to see if they’re incorruptible! Trust me, they are most definitely at “Requiscat in Pace”
 
According to this website, the church has more than 250 incorruptible saints.
theworkofgod.org/Saints/

If you go to the Incorruptibles on that page, you can click on 9 saints and you will see photos of their incorrupt bodies.

More: listverse.com/2007/08/21/top-10-incorrupt-corpses/

Saint Catherine Laboure - Miraculous medal

Since weddings have been very popular this weekend with Will and Kate, here is something about Saint Catherine: She was the ninth of eleven children born to a country family, very religious from her early age. She refused many offers of marriage saying that she had found her bridegroom the day she had received Holy Communion.
The photo of her incorrupt body is here: theworkofgod.org/Saints/Lives/CatLabre.htm
 
Ok. Does that mean that the Catholic church teaches that anyone can do whatever they want to a dead body since the spirit is not in the ground? I really thought that there were some restrictions on handling a body after death. Most churches have such restrictions…
My thoughts of disrespect aside, WHY does the Cathoic church do this? Why can’t he just be left where he was originally burried? Just wondering…

Annie
the Church is not “doing whatever they want to the body” they are examining it in accord with the proper procedure, and the examination is done respectfully by professionals. It is not lying loose for people to tamper with.
What on earth do you imagine is wrong with this?
The primary purpose is simply identification, to make sure the remains, which will again be interred solemnly with all reverence due, that will be venerated are indeed those of the late pontiff.

With what non-Catholic religion is this a point of interest in any case, to be posted on this forum?
 
An additional reason is that the body of Pope John Paul is to be moved to a place of greater prominence. His body was interred in the crypts below the main altar of St. Peter’s Basilica. After his beatification, it will be moved to underneath the altar of the the Chapel of St. Sebastian, near the statue of the Pietà.

Here is some information on the chapel, which judging from the photos, appears to be beautiful.
saintpetersbasilica.org/Altars/StSebastian/StSebastian.htm

The chapel is much more visited than the crypts below St. Peter’s, which appear rather spartan. Here is a photo of his casket being exhumed:
 
Ok, and some of his blood is supposed to be given away too.

and you wonder why some people call catholicism pagan or cultist?

Parts of bodies should stay just what they are- parts of body.
 
Sometimes this is done to retrieve relics, among other things.

It seems scandalous to many modern folks, but the Christian church was notorious among the ancients for scrupulously caring for the dying and the dead, even for the bodies of non-believers. This caring for the bodies of others was an act of selfless charity which was noticed by the pagan neighbors. This in concert with the very ancient Christian belief that creation is fundamentally good, the human body is good (not a bad or evil thing as many gnostic heretics taught), that we can look forward (or maybe with a sense of dread, for some of us 😉 ) to life eternal and a restoration of the body to the soul. This was a radically different attitude than was common in those days, since the few belief systems that actually contemplated an afterlife often taught that the body was a trap for the soul, to be escaped and abandoned.

The burial sites (and death sites) of martyrs and other holy individuals usually attracted visitors, some I suppose were very pious and some may have had a morbid curiosity, but these locations frequently became places of prayer and worship, especially on the anniversary of a martyrdom (like a birthday, one is reborn in Christ and baptised in blood at a martyrdom) with eventually significant church buildings raised over the site. This is the origin of the practice of placing a relic of a saint into or under an altar, and the naming of church buildings after saints.

Saint Peter’s basilica is probably the best known of these sites, it is not actually the cathedral of Rome, the original structure (now long gone) was actually constructed with public funds over a cemetary by order of Saint Constantine the emperor. The top of the hill was chopped down and used for landfill in the lower spots, but the altar was located above the grave of Saint Peter.

For whatever reason, due to construction or for who knows what, early Christians sometimes were amazed to discover the remains of an individual (especially important in the case of a suspected holy person) were still recognizeable, perhaps even lifelike, after many years of entombment. Some people took it as a sign. This is not an Apostolic Teaching, we have no evidence that Jesus Christ or the Apostles ever taught on this subject.

IMO, the incorruptable claim is rather overdone, many (if not most, or even all) such claims have continued to deteriorate after discovery. The manner of death sometimes affects the outcome, as well as the preparation of the corpse and the site chosen can be factors.
 
Parts of bodies should stay just what they are- parts of body.
I can understand why saintly relics would disturb some people. Its a bit macabre, with a arm here and a leg there. However, I believe the practice of dividing up the bones of a saint ended hundreds of years ago.

The blood relic of Pope John Paul II was acquired before he died. I don’t think anyone is planning on divvying up his body. 😉
 
The practice of venerating relics of the saints as well as things which have trouched the saints, however macabre they seem now in our modern culture, is witnessed amply in scripture and was clearly practiced by the earliest Chrisitans. The efficacy of veneration of relics goes way back into the Old Testament where a man is documented as having come back to life after having touched the bones of the prophet Elisha.

Elisha died and was buried. At the time, bands of Moabites used to raid the land each year. Once some people were burying a man, when suddenly they spied such a raiding band. So they cast the dead man into the grave of Elisha, and everyone went off. But when the man came in contact with the bones of Elisha, he came back to life and rose to his feet. (2 Kings 13:20-21)

A woman touches the hem of Jesus garment and is cured, not because of any magical powers in the garment, but as Jesus states, but by her faith working through her act.

A woman suffering hemorrhages for twelve years came up behind him and touched the tassel on his cloak. She said to herself, “If only I can touch his cloak, I shall be cured.” Jesus turned around and saw her, and said, “Courage, daughter! Your faith has saved you.” And from that hour the woman was cured. (Matthew 9:20-22)

Even Peter’s shadow seems to have had miraculous powers as did things which Paul had touched.

*Thus they even carried the sick out into the streets and laid them on cots and mats so that when Peter came by, at least his shadow might fall on one or another of them. A large number of people from the towns in the vicinity of Jerusalem also gathered, bringing the sick and those disturbed by unclean spirits, and they were all cured. (Acts 5:15:16)

So extraordinary were the mighty deeds God accomplished at the hands of Paul that when face cloths or aprons that touched his skin were applied to the sick, their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them. (Acts 19:11-12)*If shadows and possessions of these great men had miraculous powers through the faith of those who venerated them, how much more so their bones, as did the prophet Elisha’s? Our modern sensibilities may recoil at venerating relics - actual body parts of the saints - but it was a widespread custom to retrieve the bodies of the martyrs for the purpose of venerating their relics and the authorities often went to great lengths to try to prevent it.

"So after all we did gather up his bones - more precious to us than jewels and finer than pure gold - and we laid them to rest in a spot suitable for the purpose. There we shall assemble, as occasion allows, with glad rejoicings, and with the Lord’s permission we shall celebrate the birthday of his martyrdom. (Martyrdom of Polycarp 17-18)

My parish has a reliquary and we are so blessed to have a relic of Jesus’ cousin, St. Jude. We do a Novena to St. Jude every Thursdays, and I get to venerate a relic of one of the Apostles, a man who walked with Jesus himself, his very cousin! A society which butchers infants in the whomb and throws their bodies in the garbage has no right to tell the Holy Catholic Church what they should and shouldn’t do with the bodies of our saints. The church should put Blessed John Paul II’s remains under glass in St. Peter’s Bassilica right next to Michaelangelo’s La Pieta, where people can look upon him and pray to God that they be given one tenth the holiness that man had.

-Tim-
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top