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Lonely_guy
Guest
I need to think about those words. Thank you. God bless you.
- Status
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rhiannonh
Guest
Any time and I will try to listen because I know what it like being affraid.
And God bless you as you too have helped my day be a better day so thank you
You are in my prayers still
And God bless you as you too have helped my day be a better day so thank you
You are in my prayers still
J
JohnPaul0
Guest
Hi, Lonely Guy. Let me try to explain what the Catechism is saying. It states in both paragraphs that masturbation is a serious sin. What paragraph 2352 is trying to say then, is how much is a person held accountable by God for committing that sin?
“To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.”
Maybe from force of habit or some “psychological” condition, a person is less able to resist the temptation to masturbate. In that case, yes, the seriousness of the sin is reduced for that person compared to someone who did not have the same habit or psychological state. The act itself is still sinful. It’s like someone stealing bread from the store. If they are doing it because they are starving, the sin is less compared to if they were doing it for the thrill of it.
Is this an excuse for you to continue? You know it’s not. Your conscience already is bothering you, and you know you need work toward putting this sin behind you. The bigger message for you is that while you are strugglilng against this sin, you can take some comfort that the seriousness of it may be reduced in your particular case. God knows you. He knows your condition, and He loves you so much! He wants to walk with you to help you overcome this sin, and he does not want you to feel unloved or discouraged because of the condition you are in.
-JohnPaul
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JohnPaul0
Guest
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Nate13
Guest
This is spot on. Great post
J
JAW642
Guest
Please read both my Reply # 44? and my Reply # 45
To JohnPaul
From JAW642 on Thursday, Dec. 08, 2011 Feast of the Immaculate Conception ]
JohnPaul, you have written two very caring and loving Replies, [Reply # 41 and Reply # 42 ], to Lonely guy. I wish more posters on CAF were as caring and loving as you are.
On the masturbation issue, I am very much on the same page with Lonely guy, with pretty much the same concerns and feelings, when it comes to the morality of male masturbation.
I think that most males, Catholic and non catholic, feel that the act of masturbation does not deserve or warrant God sending males to Hell for all of Eternity, for ONE act of masturbation. I believe that moderate masturbation is NOT gravely offensive to God. And especially when there is no ejaculation involved.
I concede that extremely excessive masturbation, ( beyond the physical, sexual needs of a normal male ), could possibly be gravely offensive to God. NOT because of the act itself, but for the excessiveness of the act.
God designed the male human nature to be much more interested in sex and sexual pleasure, than He did for females. So why would God be so gravely offended, when He sees single males in their teens and twenties, or older, masturbating as Nature intends?
Why would God put such a strong sexual urge into every male, and then expect him to never, never touch his penis, or to have a sexual thought?
It just does not make any sense to me and to many other males throughout history.
Doesn’t this whole argument about Masturbation all boil down to,
“Masturbation is wrong because the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, has declared it to be wrong”?
And this declaration satisfies you, JohnPaul, totally and completely, because:
As a matter of fact, Jesus founded the Catholic Church so it could be his voice in the world after he ascended into heaven. Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever listens to you listens to me.” (Luke 10:16).
But the simple fact remains, that since masturbation is such a universal issue for ALL males, many males wonder why Jesus never addressed the issue of masturbation in any way while He walked the earth.
Perhaps God designed the act of masturbation to help single males cope with the stress and anxiety of their physical sexual needs, until the time that they marry, OR after the death ( or Divorce ) of a wife.
Perhaps the activity of masturbation in moderation by single males, is NOT gravely offensive to God.
Perhaps God intends that moderate masturbation be used as a manual release mechanism to relieve the sexual tensions of single males, in much the same way that wet dreams or nocturnal emissions do. The only difference is that masturbation is Controlled, while a wet dream is Uncontrolled. Sexual thoughts are used during each process to achieve the final ‘outcome’.
How do we know that God sends males to Hell for all of Eternity, for ONE act of masturbation? And here’s the ironic part… the male does not even have to ejaculate. He simply has to play with his erect penis for a few minutes.
This is what the Magisterium teaches in the Catechism of the Catholic Church ( CCC - 2352 ).
It is extremely difficult for me to believe that God really does punish any act of masturbation by sending males to Hell for all of Eternity. The punishment simply does not fit the ‘crime’.
I am extremely concerned about young teen males, who believe that they are the worst people on earth, and that God is going to send them to Hell, because they cannot stop masturbating. I blame the Catholic Church for this, rather than God.
I realize that the Catholic Church teaches that because of the immaturity, or force of habit, or too much homework, teen males are still grievously offending God by masturbating, but that God MIGHT NOT send them to Hell. Why can’t the Catholic Church simply state that moderate masturbation by males is NOT grievously offensive to God?
From JAW642 on 12/08/2011
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JAW642
Guest
Please read both my Reply # 44 and my Reply # 45
To JohnPaul
From JAW642 on Thursday, Dec. 08, 2011 Feast of the Immaculate Conception ]
JohnPaul, you have written two very caring and loving Replies, [Reply # 41 and Reply # 42 ], to Lonely guy. I wish more posters on CAF were as caring and loving as you are.
On the masturbation issue, I am very much on the same page with Lonely guy, with pretty much the same concerns and feelings, when it comes to the morality of male masturbation.
My hypothetical Questions about relativity :
Johnny, who is 19 years old, can overeat and stuff himself at Thanksgiving dinner, and God will not send him to Hell.
Johnny can drink too much at a New Year’s Eve party, and God will not send him to Hell.
Johnny can go to a nude beach with his buddies. They can frolic naked in the surf, and sunbathe on the beach nude all afternoon, and God will not send them to Hell.
Johnny can pose nude every week for a illegitimate art class, ( even if his Mom is one of the students ), and God will not send him to Hell.
Johnny can stand completely naked in front of a male or female urologist, and have the urologist feel his testicles and penis, even while he has a full erection, and God will not send him to Hell.
Johnny can sleep nude all night, every night, as long as he doesn’t play with himself, and God will not send him to Hell.
BUT, if Johnny takes a shower at night, and he goes to bed naked, and then he knowingly plays with his erect penis for 15 minutes before falling asleep, Johnny is going straight to Hell, if he should die of a brain aneurysm or tumor in his sleep !
“Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.”
If masturbation were so sinful, and so gravely offensive to God, then why was it NOT listed as part of the Ten Commandments from God? Eleventh Commandment, “Thou shalt not Masturbate.”
Why isn’t the act of masturbation Prominently and Unquestionably listed in Sacred Scripture as a mortal sin?
Why did Jesus Christ himself NEVER mention the ‘sin’ of masturbation?
Why does the Magisterium of the Church have to rely on constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful, to be in no doubt and to firmly maintain declare ] that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.
I believe many good males are truly in doubt about the gravity of masturbation. But I guess the Magisterium will simply say that these males are not part of the moral Faithful.
How can masturbation be an intrinsically and gravely disordered action, and against the Natural Law, when we know that all normal males masturbate Naturally and Instinctively, or would masturbate if they were allowed to masturbate without being required to confess it as a mortal sin ?
Does masturbation make all males simply horrible, worthless human beings?
Is it possible that Jesus simply forgot to mention the issue of masturbation?
OR perhaps, since Jesus knew that the Magisterium of the Catholic Church was going to make the practice of masturbation a mortal sin, in the sixth century, AD., He decided that it was not necessary for Him to say anything about masturbation before that time?
The reference to the Magistgerium’s “constant tradition” of opposition to masturbation appears to conflict with Giovanni Cappelli’s findings that the first mention of masturbation in Church documents dated to the sixth century CE.
It would appear that the CCC condemns all pleasure derived from genital stimulations, whether masturbation is continued until orgasm or not. ]
It seems like before the sixth century AD, and going back to the beginning of the human race, God could not have sent males to Hell for masturbating, because, according to the Catholic Church, masturbation was not declared a mortal sin before the sixth century AD.
So the question is, Why did God change His mind about the grievousness of masturbation? OR Why did God wait until the sixth century AD, to let the Catholic Church tell the Faithful about the grievousness of masturbation? OR perhaps it was just the Catholic Church ( and Not God ), that changed its mind about the grievousness of masturbation?
I feel compelled either to be disappointed with God, or angry with the Catholic Church, for elevating the act of masturbation to the level of mortal sin. So I have made the decision to be angry with the Catholic Church on this issue.
If the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, in the next Vatican council, declared that moderate masturbation by single males, is necessary to sexual health, and not gravely offensive to God, and therefore not at all sinful, would we all unquestioningly accept their decision ?
I know I, and virtually all other males, would be extremely happy and elated to accept their decision !
From JAW642 on 12/08/2011
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JohnPaul0
Guest
JAW642, Thank you for the kind words. If we’re not all here to celebrate and share the love of Christ, then we’re just “noisy gongs,” ay?
I hardly know where to start. Here goes.
So, the Church would not say that one is necessarily condemned. At the same time, if one were to say, “I know what the Church says about this, and they’re right, but I want this so much that I’m going to do it anyway,” then I would say that one certainly is putting one’s immortal soul at risk.
Even then, I’m guessing you know that the Church never condemns anyone to hell; she always leaves room for God’s mercy.
Anything that is ordered to that purpose is good. Anything not is evil. If we engage in sexual activity or deliberate sexaul thoughts outside of marraige, ultimately it robs something from the relationship between us and our spouse. That may be our current relationship if we are married or our relationship to come if we are single.
It is possible to put aside sinful habits. I’ve made progress.
Yes, it always will be struggle for males. Think of it this way: we simply cannot control thoughts that come into our minds. Yet, we can control whether we dwell on those thoughts or act on those thoughts. That’s the key distinction.
The other way to look at it is: how can we avoid this type of sin? The Church is not a collection of “No’s.” It is the opposite:
“For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us—by me and Silas and Timothy—was not “Yes” and “No,” but in him it has always been “Yes.” (2 Cor 1:19).
By this I mean that God has given us through the Scripture and the teaching of the Church an instruction manual. If we follow the manual, as we would for a new kitchen appliance, we will live our lives well, as God intends.
Jesus wants us to fall in love with him so much that we are willing to change ourselves to become more like him. That is, " to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God." (1 Cor 1:21). That’s how we get power to strive against sin: love for Christ and a keen awareness of how our sins offend him. Frequent confession is a real help here.
-JohnPaul
I hardly know where to start. Here goes.
Whether or not one would go to hell for one act of masturbation would depend on one’s freedom to resist that tempation, as listed in CCC paragraph 2352 where it states that there are factors “that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.”
So, the Church would not say that one is necessarily condemned. At the same time, if one were to say, “I know what the Church says about this, and they’re right, but I want this so much that I’m going to do it anyway,” then I would say that one certainly is putting one’s immortal soul at risk.
Even then, I’m guessing you know that the Church never condemns anyone to hell; she always leaves room for God’s mercy.
Are you really suggesting that Nature (aka God) really intends young men to masturbate? If so, then that’s a bold position. Everything I’ve heard is that God intends young men and women to be chaste until they’re married. Please see my response to the next quote below.
I offer two ways of looking at this. Initially, it did not make sense to me, but the longer I live with the Church’s fundamental teaching on human sexuality, the more I appreciate its truth and how it is the solution to the world’s sexual excesses. The two-fold purpose of sex, or more specifically, sexual pleasure, is to bring a husband and wife closer together and to encourage them to have children.
Anything that is ordered to that purpose is good. Anything not is evil. If we engage in sexual activity or deliberate sexaul thoughts outside of marraige, ultimately it robs something from the relationship between us and our spouse. That may be our current relationship if we are married or our relationship to come if we are single.
It is possible to put aside sinful habits. I’ve made progress.
Yes, it always will be struggle for males. Think of it this way: we simply cannot control thoughts that come into our minds. Yet, we can control whether we dwell on those thoughts or act on those thoughts. That’s the key distinction.
The other way to look at it is: how can we avoid this type of sin? The Church is not a collection of “No’s.” It is the opposite:
“For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us—by me and Silas and Timothy—was not “Yes” and “No,” but in him it has always been “Yes.” (2 Cor 1:19).
By this I mean that God has given us through the Scripture and the teaching of the Church an instruction manual. If we follow the manual, as we would for a new kitchen appliance, we will live our lives well, as God intends.
Jesus wants us to fall in love with him so much that we are willing to change ourselves to become more like him. That is, " to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God." (1 Cor 1:21). That’s how we get power to strive against sin: love for Christ and a keen awareness of how our sins offend him. Frequent confession is a real help here.
-JohnPaul
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JohnPaul0
Guest
This is good. You’ve thought a lot about this. As I stated in my previous post, the Church never condemns anyone to hell. So, what about your list of “sins”?
The key factor in all these is the combination of our intention and the degree to which we are free to resist temptation. The traditions associated with Thanksgiving and New Year’s can lesson the culpability of the sins of gluttony and drunkeness. Art class, medical things, how we want to sleep may not be sinful at all. You see? What matters is our knowledge of right/wrong, our freedom to choose right, and our motivation.
If bunch of guys want to swim naked for the novelty of it, that can be perfectly fine. You did not say that they are going to a nude beach to ogle women. That would be a completely different, sinful motivation.
I can’t say why Christ did not specifically mention masturbation. In my previous post I described the Church’s view of sex. You might want to try reading a book on the Theology of the Body or the encyclical Humanae Vitae vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html
One thing to be clear on is that masturbation, or any other sin, does not make anyone a horrible, worthless human being. If that is the impression you’ve received from the Church, then I’m honestly and completely sorry. The truth is the opposite. I can’t remember where the quote came from, but I’ve heard it said that a great sinner is very dear to Our Lord. “The greater the sinner, the greater the right to my mercy.” I think that that is from Our Lord’s words to Saint Faustina giving her the Chaplet of Divine Mercy.
Please try not to think that way. That way of thinking is straight from the Devil.
As far as the 6th century information, I honestly have no idea about when the Church started writing about masturbation.
If the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, in the next Vatican council, declared that moderate masturbation by single males, is necessary to sexual health, and not gravely offensive to God, and therefore not at all sinful, would we all unquestioningly accept their decision ?
I know I, and virtually all other males, would be extremely happy and elated to accept their decision !
I don’t think even medical science would say that “moderate masturbation by single males, is necessary to sexual health.” Anyway, I humbly encourage you, once you are in the right frame of mind, to read the documents and, most of all, ask Our Lord to tell you deep inside what he thinks about this.
BTW, not to sound melodramatic, but I’m going to the hospital tomorrow for an elective procedure. It’s supposed to be safe, but who knows? So, if I never post again, I haven’t intentionally abandoned you (or Lonely Guy!).
Sincerely,
JohnPaul
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Lost_and_Found_1
Guest
Francisco died on 4 April 1919 and Jacinta died on 20 Februrary 1920. Before she dies, little Jacinta revealed little-known but remarkable statements made by Our Lady. Here are just some of them: More souls go to hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason. Certain fashions will be introduced that will offend Our Lord very much. Many marriages are not good; they do not please Our Lord and are not of God. Priests must be pure, very pure. They should not busy themselves with anything except what concerns the Church and souls. The disobedience of priests to their superiors and to the Holy Father is very displeasing to Our Lord. The Blessed Mother can no longer restrain the hand of her Divine Son from striking the world with just punishment for its many crimes.
Tell everybody that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Tell them to ask graces from her, and that the Heart of Jesus wishes to be venerated together with the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
Tell everybody that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Tell them to ask graces from her, and that the Heart of Jesus wishes to be venerated together with the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
This is all true but this line: “that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.”
This is not going to be for an adult who knows 100% that masturbation is a mortal sin.
It is more likely for a child or someone who has brain damage.
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sarahq
Guest
Saying a prayer for you!
God bless
Sarah
God bless
Sarah
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JohnPaul0
Guest
I’m back!!!:bounce: Everything went okay, thanks be to God.
How is everybody doing, Lonely Guy? Jaw?
-JohnPaul
How is everybody doing, Lonely Guy? Jaw?
-JohnPaul
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rhiannonh
Guest
When we are troubled by our sins contemplate this
“Lord I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed”
We anglicans say it just before receiving communion and if my memory is right so do Roman Catholics. Not just to Lonely Guy but to anyone who has anguise about weaknesses and sins and it feel it all getting too much think and believe of that what we say in communion
Peace be with you
“Lord I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed”
We anglicans say it just before receiving communion and if my memory is right so do Roman Catholics. Not just to Lonely Guy but to anyone who has anguise about weaknesses and sins and it feel it all getting too much think and believe of that what we say in communion
Peace be with you
T
twoangels
Guest
There is nothing immoral about enjoying sex when you’re married.
- You are not engaging in an act with another person. You are focused on yourself. There is no bonding going on
- Seeking sexual pleasure for its own sake in isolation from its procreative purposes is sinful. There is nothing procreative about it.
No, lust would motivate you to reject the procreative purposes of sex and would motivate you to objectify and use one another in different ways. Satisfying lust is never satisfying. Lust is not sexual desire and actually the less lust you have, the more a married couple can enjoy sex.
I have never masturbated. The first climax I ever experienced was with my husband, though I’ve been told I had to have climaxed before then as supposedly even women spontaneously climax at night while they’re asleep. But either way, I never knew what it would feel like before I was married. And I’d never want to experience a climax without him there.
You can drink alcohol in moderation and not sin. Getting drunk is a sin.
You’ve never heard of the sin of gluttony? What sort of faith formation did you have? You seriously need to study the Catechism. Eating too much food is sinful. Being picky about what foods you eat is sinful. Gluttony has many expressions.
We are required to take care of our health, so yes people do confess smoking
Sounds to me like whoever Catechisized you in the faith was obsessed with sexual sins and neglected to teach you anything else.
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twoangels
Guest
I sincerely doubt this is your only sin. However when we obsess about one specific sin it can prevent us from making a good examination of conscience.
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JAW642
Guest
To JohnPaul0
From JAW642
JohnPaul0,
First of all, I’m glad that everything turned out well for you at the hospital. Secondly, I want to thank you for your quick answers to my Reply # 44 and my Reply # 45.
I guess I was hoping for some magical words from you, that would reconcile for me, my questioning of the Catholic Church’s teachings on Masturbation and Infallibility.
But I realize now that as a good catholic, the only thing you are allowed to do is to reiterate what the Catholic Church has already said.
Up until March of 2009, I have always believed in the Infallibility of the Catholic Church when teaching on faith or morals.
Up until March of 2009, I accepted that deliberate Masturbation ( meaning Ejaculation ) was a gravely offensive act against God.
Before 2009, I have always thought that when the Catholic Church spoke about Masturbation, it meant, and was synonymous with, Ejaculation. Masturbation equals Ejaculation. No Ejaculation equals No Masturbation.
In March of 2009, I found on the internet, the actual wording of CCC-2352.
Today, I still do not want to believe that a male playing with and stroking his erect penis, without Ejaculating, is still gravely offending God.
Also, now I wonder very much if even deliberate Masturbation With Ejaculation, in moderation, by single, unmarried males, is still gravely offending God.
I simply cannot believe that God considers the Masturbation issue as seriously as the Catholic Church does. I simply cannot believe that the ONLY purposes of the male penis are to urinate for all males, and to impregnate a wife, for married males.
In order for the Catholic Church to declare and claim Infallibility, the Church must Not make even ONE mistake when teaching about faith and morals. Otherwise, ALL Church teachings about faith and morals are opened to being questioned as possibly incorrect and suspect.
In order for me to again believe in the Infallibility of the Catholic Church, I will have to also believe that God is gravely offended by ALL male stroking of the erect penis, and that God is Just in sending males to Hell for all of Eternity, for just ONE act of masturbation, even without Ejaculation. Any Catholic male simply has to Consent to play with his erect penis for a few minutes, knowing that the Catholic Church has declared that this act is grave matter for mortal sin.
This is what the Magisterium teaches in the Catechism of the Catholic Church ( CCC - 2352 ).
What about young boys 12 and under, who have not reached puberty, and who discover that playing with their penis gets it hard and who willingly enjoy the sexual pleasure? Are these young boys still gravely offending God?
And what about Infant boys who play with their erect penis? And what about boys who are 2 years old, or 5, or 8, or 10 years old? Are ALL these boys still gravely offending God by performing an intrinsically and gravely disordered action as cited in CCC-2352?
Even though the Church will probably admit and concur that this act is not mortal sin for the boys, due to the age and lack of maturity and knowledge, are these young boys still gravely offending God, because they are masturbating ( which is playing with your erect penis ) and are deliberately performing an intrinsically and gravely disordered action?
According to the Catholic Church’s teaching in CCC-2352, God is gravely offended by ALL these boys, because All of them are deliberately performing an action which is intrinsically and gravely disordered. They are going against the Natural Law, which is written in the hearts of every man, ( and baby ? ).
How can the Catholic Church declare and claim Infallibility, and at the same time Expect and Require all of the Faithful to believe that a male of the age of 5 months, or 5 years, or 8, or 10, or 15, or 20, or 25 years, is gravely offending God, and has grave matter for mortal sin, by playing with and stroking his erect penis?
Does Masturbation which is understood as the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure, become an intrinsically and gravely disordered action, only when the male is over a certain age?
When an action is declared as an intrinsically and gravely disordered action, that means that the action is ALWAYS Wrong and Evil in and of itself. And it cannot be based upon the age of the person performing the action.
The Catholic Church must believe Either one of these conclusions :
God is gravely offended by ALL males who play with and stroke their erect penis.
OR, God is Not gravely offended by ANY male who plays with and strokes his erect penis.
God cannot be gravely offended by only SOME males who play with and stroke their erect penis, because the act is ALWAYS intrinsically Wrong and Evil in and of itself.
My personal position on the Catholic Church’s teaching in CCC-2352, is that any male playing with his erect penis is Not gravely offending God. And that God does Not send males to Hell for simply doing that.
Would any normal human father be gravely offended, if he walked in and saw his young 8 or 10 year old son, or even his teen 15 year old son, lying on his bed naked and playing with and stroking his erect penis?
By JAW642
What if a Catholic sincerely believes that the Catholic Church is wrong about Masturbation?
My Reply # 01 on Jun 10, 2009, at 6:49 pm
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5311160#post5311160
From JAW642 on 12/16/2011
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JohnPaul0
Guest
Well, I did reiterate it, but it’s because I believe it.
Until now I didn’t make a distinction between ejaculation or not. However, since you do make the distinction, it does seem to me that whatever sin is involved is less grave without ejaculation. So, I think in that regard you are on the right track.
Just out of curiosity have you read Humanae Vitae? As I wrote above, it didn’t sink into me for a while. Over time, though, I’ve come to see that the pursuit of sexual pleasure in and of itself w/o the procreative dimension, appears to correlate to a lot of societal ills: promiscuity, divorce and remarraige, abortion, gays seeking legitimacy for homosexual acts, child pornography.
I can’t help but think that what you propose as normal is another instance of separating the unitive and procreative. In fact, it’s neither of those, is it? I’m not saynig because it’s neither that is worse, not at all. I’m just observing that it’s a sexual activity which does not bring a husband and wife closer together and be open to life. Therefore, I’d be suspicious that it’s okay.
I think you answered your own question here. The way the Church would look at it would be to say that yes, objectively this is wrong, but subjectively (how much is the young boy liable) is much less, if anything. The Church doesn’t even hold anyone to be morally accountable until they reach the age of reason, which is about 7.
Here you’re lumping a wide range of ages together. The subjectivity is very different for a 5-year-old and a 25-year-old.
It seems as if you are mixing the objective and the subjective. God is only gravely offended if we intend to offend him. So, someone who is completely ignorant of Church teaching in this matter will offend God less–or not at all–compared to someone who does know the teaching. “He to whom much has been given, much shall be expected.”
With that said, based on what you’ve written, you firmly believe that masturbation does NOT gravely offend God. So, for someone like that, masturabation would not gravely offend God based on the subjective state of the person, even though the act objectively does.
Don’t focus on condemnation, though. That’s not God’s goal in our lives. Jesus did not come to condemn, but to save. He is always iniviting us to a deeper relationship with him.
JAW, if I may, this is really what this is all about: it’s an inviation from Our Lord. Perhaps you could find a tabernacle with the Blessed Sacrament and go and talk to Jesus about this issue. I’m not suggesting that there will be a “magic” voice in your head and you’ll completely change your viewpoint. He is there, though, and he’ll listen to you.
Gotta go; already at the word limit, too.
- Status