Why?

[Khalfan]

do you kiss it because of uniformity in praying as well?

Yes. All Muslims do that becasue Mohamed (pbuh) did it.

You are simply committing the same mistake again and again :The inability to distinguish between ontological equality and functional subordination.

If Jesus is God, did he need to eat?
If Jesus is God, did he need to sleep?

Blessed is the man who listens to me (Wisdom), watching daily at my gates, waiting at my doorposts. For he who finds me finds life, and obtains favor from the Lord.”

Wisdom of God is personified in the OT. In the NT, the Wisdom dwelt among us in the person of Jesus Christ.

Wisdom of God is refering to the Lord in the same way Jesus refers to the Lord : ontological equality, functional subordination.

Can you explain “ontological equality, functional subordination”.

 

[Khalfan]

yea which shows it is a stylistic feature used back then.

says who? i don’t reject the content, you do. What is metaphorical and what is not is usually determined from context. What you are quoting are an example of figurative language and that’s how Jews understand it.

You asked me to put the blame on those writers.

You think, you can still find the true God from all those colored imaginative pictures. You lost it long back. You still don’t understand the term ‘Son of God’ and ‘God’ they used to refer men.

how is this any different from Allah having a face, a hand, feet, eyes, chin as per Quran and Sunna?

Do we picturise or imagine human like face, eyes, hands or legs? NO. Becasue we know the true God. But you do imagine and picturise it even after you know the truth (I think so).

why do you pray infront of a black stone? why do you kiss a black stone? indeed intention is what matters.

Quoting it again and again won’t change anything in my intention. I don’t worship the the stone and I don’t make sample stones. But you pray to idol of Jesus (pbuh), and make sample crosses.

in fact, the first thing you inquire about is the direction of the Qibla. You can’t pray to a different direction so it is in your mind. What is in your mind as well is ablution, the carpet you pray on, the clothes you put and how to do the Rakaat in the correct way. What we have in mind is God directly. So yuo kiss the stone only because Muhammad said so? no theololical reason?

Qibla, Ablution and clean clothes are the prior requirments of praying, not the content of praying. Praying is different. it is state of mind. IN the prayer we don’t care about ablution, cloth or direction. My personnal experience is, while praying, I talk to God. I don’t picture any form of God in my mind but knowing that God is just near to me and listening me.

If it is God directly, you wont imagine Jesus (pbuh) in your mind. If it is God directly, You won’t fall on knee infront of any statue or picture. Learn something on Hindu rituals. You will understand, there is no much difference in what you do and what they do.

Prophet didn’t SAY to do so. But he did and people saw it.

He wore the cross on His shoulders and asked us to hold our crosses and follow Him

Why do you still have hold your cross? It supposed to be done by Jesus (pbuh), right?

 

[Khalfan]

indeed that’s why i asked

you do something that has no meaning?

The meaning is to follow/copy the life of prophet (pbuh).

and why did Muhammad kiss a stone in the first place if it is not a religious symbol? if anything Muhammad does is ordained by Allah, then surely this must have a meaning.

I have already said, it was placed by Abraham (pbuh) in the Kaaba. According to Islam, the stone originally from heaven and given first to Adam (pbuh). He builded kaaba at first and placed it in Kaaba. Abraham (pbuh) rebuilded the Kaaba and placed it in the position where it is now. We believe all the prophets have visited kaaba. So the stone have touched by all prophets. If there is any other theological mean or value it has in Islam, prophet (pbuh) was supposed to tell that. But he didn’t. He didn’t ask us to kiss even. We do that because people saw him doing that.
Hope that is clear.

those who kiss it do not kiss the stone but who it represents. Just as you kiss somebody’s picture, it does not mean you have affection for the paper

In whichever way you try to impose, that stone cannot have any value in Islam than just a stone.:blushing:

could be thousands of miles away, or could be infront of you while doing the tawaf at hajj. So if Jesus’ statue is 100 meters away, it is ok?

We don’t make the symbols of it, becasue we don’t worship the stone or Kaaba. So it doesn’t matter if it is near or far. But you worship the person, that the idol represents. Until you consider the statue as the representation of God, far or near doesn’t change anything unless you think different.

What do you understand of idol worshiping?

 

[inJESUS]

Yes. All Muslims do that becasue Mohamed (pbuh) did it.

ok fine but why did Muhammad kiss it in the first place? statues represent someone; what does a black stone represent to Muhammad?

Can you explain "ontological equality, functional subordination

 

[inJESUS]

You asked me to put the blame on those writers.

you said Christians blasphem against God so i replied : blame the stylic features of the Hebrew language, not Christians i do not blame them surely because i don’t impose the 20th century language standards on those of thousands of years ago. I reason.

You think, you can still find the true God from all those colored imaginative pictures.

 

[inJESUS]

I have already said, it was placed by Abraham (pbuh) in the Kaaba. According to Islam, the stone originally from heaven and given first to Adam (pbuh). He builded kaaba at first and placed it in Kaaba. Abraham (pbuh) rebuilded the Kaaba and placed it in the position where it is now. We believe all the prophets have visited kaaba. So the stone have touched by all prophets