B
Benedict_777
Guest
“Witchcraft is the opium of the people.” --Me
- Status
J
josephdaniel29
Guest
Or abandon the world altogether.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
T
Tyuiop411
Guest
Exactly. There is nothing that rubs against the grain of modern society more than devout orthodox Catholics.
N
nickybr38
Guest
Or abandon the world altogether.
Beautiful pictures! Sorry, I have nothing to contribute to the topic I just wanted to comment.
S
Shawn_Ravenfire
Guest
The Phillipino Catholics sound a lot like the Santerians of the Carribean, and for much the same reason. Catholic imagery was imposed on them by the Spaniards.
But as for the sudden explosion of popularity of Wicca in teenagers, I think most of this has to do with the internet. Someone who doesn’t really understand Wicca, writes a web page about it, someone else picks up on it and takes it further, and it ends up becoming “fluffy” – just a lot of nice, flowery ideas without any real substance. Part of it has to do with rebellion, but I think a lot of it also has to do with wanting to identify with a culture and be a “unique” individual. As they get older, they realize that just being yourself makes you unique enough, and as they enter the workforce, they starting thinking along more practical lines (which usually doesn’t include religion). In that practical phase, it’s a lot easier to drop a faith that you picked up from your friends as a teenager, than a faith that’s deeply rooted from your parents.
But there is a good side to the internet’s popularization of Wicca. When I was a teenager (before the internet), I pretty much had two options available to me – believing in God, or not. I was well into high school before I even realized there was more than one religion. Today’s youth has more information, and therefor more options, and that’s always a good thing. And there are a few, within the young Wiccan community, who do go beyond just playing dress-up, and study the deeper meaning behind the faith, and those are the ones who stick around after college.
If you know someone is practicing Wicca, the best thing is to do nothing. They’ll ether derive some good from it, or they’ll give up on it after a few years. And if they’re practicing one of the more “extreme” forms of occultism, talk to them (calmly), and make sure they’re not harming themselves or others.
But as for the sudden explosion of popularity of Wicca in teenagers, I think most of this has to do with the internet. Someone who doesn’t really understand Wicca, writes a web page about it, someone else picks up on it and takes it further, and it ends up becoming “fluffy” – just a lot of nice, flowery ideas without any real substance. Part of it has to do with rebellion, but I think a lot of it also has to do with wanting to identify with a culture and be a “unique” individual. As they get older, they realize that just being yourself makes you unique enough, and as they enter the workforce, they starting thinking along more practical lines (which usually doesn’t include religion). In that practical phase, it’s a lot easier to drop a faith that you picked up from your friends as a teenager, than a faith that’s deeply rooted from your parents.
But there is a good side to the internet’s popularization of Wicca. When I was a teenager (before the internet), I pretty much had two options available to me – believing in God, or not. I was well into high school before I even realized there was more than one religion. Today’s youth has more information, and therefor more options, and that’s always a good thing. And there are a few, within the young Wiccan community, who do go beyond just playing dress-up, and study the deeper meaning behind the faith, and those are the ones who stick around after college.
If you know someone is practicing Wicca, the best thing is to do nothing. They’ll ether derive some good from it, or they’ll give up on it after a few years. And if they’re practicing one of the more “extreme” forms of occultism, talk to them (calmly), and make sure they’re not harming themselves or others.
T
Tyuiop411
Guest
Yeah that’s what i was trying to get at. When i was in high school there were a lot of “Fluff Bunny” Wiccans and only a few serious Wiccans. Now I’m not trying to sound rude when i say this, but from what I saw a lot of the “fluff bunny” Wiccans simply used the religion as a way of justifying a promiscuous lifestyle.
N
Noesis
Guest
Virtuous in the eyes of whom? Whose objective standards do you refer to?
Virtue is, afterall, a philosophical construct. Virtue is a quality of the intellect, it is not something which exists in a way which a person might call physical, and neither is it purely spiritual.
Let us say, then, that you hold to the virtue of a single owner-operator of the kosmos; a single source who dictates what is virtue, and what is not. Can a person only adhere to such a being’s virtue, or is it possible to adhere to the virtue of something else as well?
N
Noesis
Guest
To be fair here, we thankfully exist in a society which has left behind its former shells of theocracy. If a person wishes to be “left alone” to practice their religion as they see fit, then, so long as it conforms to the law, they are utterly able to do so.
I adore religious discussion, debate, and even banter. However, if I should chose not to indulge in these things, then what, exactly, prevents me from so doing? Who will force discussion upon me?
If you do not want Christians telling you that you should convert to their path, then do not bring up the subject whilst in their presence. A person can live their whole life without telling anyone outside of their family and closest friends what, exactly, their spiritual beliefs are. If you are unable to do this, then you can expect some reaction which is not always fawning agreement.
As for your comments about Satan: there is a very large portion of Traditional Witchcraft, which many might confuse with Wicca, which is devoted to things that appear to be Satanism. Do you know of Cultus Sabbati, or Tubal Cain? If you do not, then you should research them, and decide for yourself how a Christian would describe what it is that they do.
Let me say it this way: to claim that there is nothing dark in witchcraft, is to speak from ignorance. To know that there are dark aspects of witchcraft, and to then be surprised at how such darkness is explained by other religions, is simply ridiculous. If you choose to discuss religions with a Christian, then do not attempt to explain away the most closely related paths to yours using tones which communicate fear of being somehow ousted. If you love your path, then embrace it!
I sometimes say that Christians are atheists, as they deny the existence of the vast personalities that are divine. But I say this tempered with the idea that my definition of atheism is different from theirs. So it is with their use of the word Satanism, and with their definition of dark spirituality.
J
josephdaniel29
Guest
A large part of the interest in Wicca has to do with a deep (or not necessarily deep, depending on the person) seated aspect of our fallen human minds. Our minds have a desire to control the world around it, a desire is born out of self-centered fear. That feigned control gives us the illusion of security and safety. Christianity teaches exactly the opposite, that we have no control and that we have to place our will and lives in the hands of God. Understandably our minds often rebel from the idea of giving that control to some power other than itself. That urge to rebel is only magnified in the teenage psyche.
Wicca offers teens and adults a way to “control” their surrounds through magic and rituals. Any superstition anyone indulges in is based on the same motive, to control things we in reality have no control over. It’s difficult enough for devout Christians to give up that control. How much more difficult is it for immature teens and agnostic adults to surrender it? Wicca provides an easy (and exotic) escape from the self-centered fear our minds impose upon us.
Yours in Christ
Joe
P
Publisher
Guest
I’m not sure I would use the word “superstition” in regard to Wicca’s belief in spells to change their situation…since Christians pray that God will do the same thing…Wiccan spells are really “liturgical prayers” to conform their minds to the will of the Gods and thereby bring about change first and foremost within themselves.
For a Wiccan to do a spell to get a new job and a Christian to light a candle and petition a favored saint to secure a job…not too much difference IMO.
N
Noesis
Guest
A difference exists.
Wiccans do spells because they believe in a sort of New Age “energy” which permeates the universe, and which has no will, and upon which intent can be passed along. This is, in my opinion, an attempt to explain mysteries in terms which adhere to this vague sort of submission to a New Age perception of quantum mechanics.
Christians, and also, the religions which predated it in the Roman Empire, endeavoured not to control or manipulate, but to enter into agreements with gods. If I light a candle to a god, and I petition him for something, and I agree that I will do something else in return, then I am not attempting to control them, but to exist in harmony with them.
Such an act, in my view, came to exist in Catholicism as well, where there are set standards of ritual contracts with the god of monotheism, in an attempt to plead with him to affect a persons life in a certain way. (The most basic is this: I will believe in the Church, and all of its Dogmas, and I will worship you and adhere to your law, if you in turn will save me from eternal punishment.)
Magic, the attempt to willfully change conditions by merit of inherit power, were frowned upon by both modern Christians, and the ancient, Classical polytheists. To both, we might assign the act of magic as being viewed as a symptom of great and profound hubris and impiety, and there is the assumption that natural order will prevail against such an imbalance.
C
choy
Guest
bwahahahah! you got me there!
C
choy
Guest
i remember when i was young, there was a facination with talking with the spirits, like “Spirit of the ____” and you use some ordinary everyday object and try to conjure spirits and answer questions you have. something like ouija board without the board. i remember using two ball point pens (i kid you not) to do this, then asking for a sign for “yes” and “no” then you start asking questions. thinking back on it, i don’t know if the other guy was just pulling our collective legs, because it was required two persons each hold a pen each and connect them on the edge. you’ll see the pen move around at the beginning, i don’t know if the other guy was spinning the pens but i know i wasn’t.
is this very similar to whats happening today?
also, yes Filipinos still have an attachment to witchcraft and nature/ancestor worship. the earlier religions and beliefs weren’t completely wiped out and a lot of people still hang on to these beliefs. the sad part is a lot of these beliefs have mixed themselves into Catholic beliefs and most people can’t tell the difference
on the account of those who crucify themselves on Good Friday, the Church doesn’t authorize that. the local Bishops can’t do anything if these people want to continue to do this to themselves, it doesn’t happen within the confines of a church
K
kenofken
Guest
Anyone who would term Wicca an “easy escape” has obviously never had the stones to walk this path or the initiative to do even some superficial research about it. Wicca, real Wicca, and I daresay most other pagan paths I know of, are not some theology of convenience which gives us cover to be libertines. If that’s all we wanted, we could do so far, far more easily with nihlism or the agnosticism which used to define my life.
Wicca is a journey which strips away all pretense and BS about what you think you know about yourself and the world. It is a journey which first demands that you know yourself and everything that entails, your little failings, your undeveloped talents, the dark side of yourself that would leave most “prayer warriors” on this site with a wet spot in their khakis… It is a craft which demands discipline and focus and an inner stillness which very few in this iPhone/texting culture of ours will ever know.
It teaches us to feel the energy currents and webs which connect all of life and creation. In doing so, we are enabled to dance in tune with that natural rythym, to catch those currents and swim with them, to draw on that vast natural energy. Those who understand magick don’t fancy ourselves to have “control over” nature anymore than a sailor has control over the wind. But it does put us in tune with those forces and allows us to harness them intelligently. Like a skilled sailor, we are able to carry out much more deliberate and effective actions than the fool who simply cast himself on the waters to go "where God’s will will take him.
Wicca is a path which calls us to full consciousness and full responsibility. Once you step onto this path for real, you realize that you are creating or at least shaping every circumstance in your life, either consciously or unconsciously. There’s no more blaming it on your parents, or Satan, or bad luck. Ever. There’s no more stupid bliss. There’s no “do overs” or get out of jail free cards from Jesus or your confessor or therapist, no lawyers’ excuses. YOU are responsible for everything you create, and where you screw up it’s on you to make right and to live with the consequences in this life and beyond.
Wicca is not an escape from fear, and it damn sure isn’t an escape from responsibility. It would be much more comforting to surrender ourselves to a God as children or slaves. We choose instead to walk with our dieties as free men and women. They don’t carry the burden for us or “save” us from our own natures, but they do help us to grow in strength and wisdom to make us equal to the challenge.
J
josephdaniel29
Guest
I wasn’t using it only to refer to Wicca. I said anyone who subscribes to superstitions does so out of a desire to control their surroundings.
We don’t pray for those things hoping that God will give us something He wasn’t going to give us anyway. We pray to demonstrate love for others and to participate with our fellow Christians in the Divine Energies of God. In fact the most perfect prayer we can say is “Thy will be done.”
In Christ,
Joe
T
Tyuiop411
Guest
I completely agree with you, but like i said earlier there is a “fluff bunny” theology going around in the High Schools. I would also dare to say that the majority of Wiccans would now fall under this category.
Tell that to an ascetic Egyptian monk and see what reaction you get. They have after all been conquering their faults and dark sides through self-denial for almost 2000 years
Catholicism also affirms that our failures are our own fault. Satan can tempt us, but ultimately it is up to us whether to do evil or to do good.
I’ll just sum this up by saying you have accurately described traditional Wicca. However, you have not described the Wicca that is popular with teenagers today.
K
kenofken
Guest
It is true we do get our share of flakes in Wicca. Well, more than our share, but that’s part and parcel of having an “open architecture” religion. With no formal catechism or Vatican-like authority structure, anyone can call themselves one of us, and they come with all levels of sincerity and even sanity. I don’t lose too much sleep over the flaky crowd or the teens who are just doing it to have a bit of rebellion. People who come to it for that are gone in a couple months or a year at most. They move on to whatever subculture they think is hip. With all the vampire stuff now, Wicca is probably considered too square by most of them. Some start as fluffy bunnies and grow into it, and some of the surly old witches consider everyone but themselves to be “fluffy.” I just do the best I know how. And I don’t mind that Catholics and Christians in general don’t like what we do. There are solid criticisms that can be made of our religion as any. I just don’t appreciate when people make flippant dismissals of something they know nothing about.
A
AnAtheist
Guest
Yes, but that difference ist very small. Prayer and magical rituals work the same way, both do not grant a supernatural influence on the physical world, be it through some “energy”, mana, spirit or god.
But both change the state of mind of the performer - thus actually having an effect, inasmuch as it is easy for them to accomplish whatever they have bidded for.
A
AntiTheist
Guest
This is, of course, the best response, but it’s going to get little attention because it’s not some hysterical tale of the supernatural.
Both occultists and Christians have a tendency to tell stories about the supernatural – and even talk themselves into thinking that they’ve experienced the supernatural – because it makes them feel good to think that there’s something “out there.”
In reality, the scariest things about most occultists are their social lives and their fashion sense.
Come on, now. If you honestly think it’s “dangerous” for a bunch of kids to dress up like witches and prance around in a circle and pretend to cast spells, then it’s time to take a good, long, hard look at yourself and the weird stuff you yourself believe.
T
Tyuiop411
Guest
Which, being interpreted means: Belief in Angels and Demons is silly and ridiculous
- Status