Widowed Deacon-in-training in a relationship?

[Lapey]

I’ve known a few deacons that lost their spouses and then moved onto the priesthood.

If this is so in your case, you have witnessed rare occasions. The diaconate, permanent diaconate, is not a stepping stone to the priesthood. This is something that is stressed constantly while in formation. We are not priests in waiting for our wives to die, nor are we “mini priests”, or “priests light”. We are deacons, called to the diaconate and not the priesthood.

I hear often of these mythical deacons who become priests after their wives die but I don’t know any nor do I hear of any being ordained to the priesthood. I am in no way saying this doesn’t occur but to hear you say you know a “few” that lost their spouses and “moved into the priesthood” is probably a very generalized and blanket statement on your part, am I right? What most people forget is that the formation of a permanent deacon is quite different than priestly formation. Priest must obtain bachelors degrees in philosophy and theology; or at least 30 hours of philosophy and a theology/masters of divinity. Most PD programs use seminary professors but not for “college credit” like my diocese. So I have five years of formation with no degree, only ordination. More dioceses are implementing stricter guidelines for formation, but most as of now do not require degrees for deacons. My point is, should my wife die today (God forbid!), I would be able to discern the priesthood. Only if, and this is a big IF, my bishop would accept me into priestly formation it is then that I would start priestly formation with the same requirements. Therefore, I would still have to go through the “whole nine yards” of formation since I have no college degree. I am 46 years old which is a good bit younger than most permanent deacons so this is something I could consider, but most are not in this category when their wives pass.

We did have one PD in priestly formation; he only lasted one semester of seminary. PD to priest is very rare, and should be.

As to the OP, there is absolutely nothing wrong with courting while in formation, as stated above there is no canon speaking against this. We have one man in formation right now scheduled to be ordained in 2014 who is divorced and has had his marriage annulled and is in a courting relationship. The girlfriend goes to the formation classes with him. Our bishop’s opinion is that he is neither married nor ordained as of yet, so what’s the problem? The candidate knows if he marries he will have to wait to be ordained, at least five years after marriage. He also knows that if he discerns into ordination as a single man he must live a celibate life.

 

[Lapey]

I don’t think it’s quite that simple. He needs to put his diaconate training on hold until he has made up his mind whether he wants to get married and be trained to be a married permanent deacon, or to remain a widower and be trained to be a celibate deacon (and possibly later a priest).

This is 100% the decision of the bishop, not us. And yes it is that simple.

What they are doing may not be against any formal rules, but it is also not a good idea either pastorally or personally.

Again, this is the bishop to decide what is or is not a good idea.

In most dioceses training for a mature candidate for the diaconate takes only three years or so, so if he is already two years into training he should be at least formally engaged to this woman (with the marriage date set obviously for a date before his ordination date) not merely “seriously dating”. If they are not ready to get engaged yet, then they should break off either the dating or the diaconate training.

The bare minimum is three years; most programs are 4 and 5 years. My diocese requires five. Many dioceses are requiring more than is mandated; many are starting to require degrees before ordination also. I would like to have received the college degree for the years I spent in formation, but oh well, it is what it is.

Also note that in most if not all dioceses, the bishop needs to get a formal agreement and endorsement from a potential candidate’s wife BEFORE he begins training as a candidate to be a married deacon. Most dioceses also require that the wife be known to the bishop to be a practicing Catholic.

This part is just false. Signing off on a document of agreement is required before ordination, not formation. Yes it is good for the wife to be involved and in agreement from the beginning, but not required. As to the wife being a practicing Catholic point, again, not true. One of my classmates is married to a Southern Baptist and he was ordained. This was quite a sight at ordination as most of his family is non-Catholic.

I do apologize if I appear to be confrontational, this is not my intent. I do not want to derail the thread only help others understand the diaconate a little better.

 

[Lapey]

Though a different issue, it should be resolved before training. The Diaconate and the Priesthood are different vocations. Though not the topic of this thread, the question should not be will they “go all the way and be a Priest”. Men called to the Diaconate should train for and practice the ministry of a Deacon. Those to the Priesthood as a Priest.

Very well stated! Very different callings and very different vocations completely.

 

[robwar]

If this is so in your case, you have witnessed rare occasions. The diaconate, permanent diaconate, is not a stepping stone to the priesthood. This is something that is stressed constantly while in formation. We are not priests in waiting for our wives to die, nor are we “mini priests”, or “priests light”. We are deacons, called to the diaconate and not the priesthood.

I hear often of these mythical deacons who become priests after their wives die but I don’t know any nor do I hear of any being ordained to the priesthood. I am in no way saying this doesn’t occur but to hear you say you know a “few” that lost their spouses and “moved into the priesthood” is probably a very generalized and blanket statement on your part, am I right? What most people forget is that the formation of a permanent deacon is quite different than priestly formation. Priest must obtain bachelors degrees in philosophy and theology; or at least 30 hours of philosophy and a theology/masters of divinity. Most PD programs use seminary professors but not for “college credit” like my diocese. So I have five years of formation with no degree, only ordination. More dioceses are implementing stricter guidelines for formation, but most as of now do not require degrees for deacons. My point is, should my wife die today (God forbid!), I would be able to discern the priesthood. Only if, and this is a big IF, my bishop would accept me into priestly formation it is then that I would start priestly formation with the same requirements. Therefore, I would still have to go through the “whole nine yards” of formation since I have no college degree. I am 46 years old which is a good bit younger than most permanent deacons so this is something I could consider, but most are not in this category when their wives pass.

We did have one PD in priestly formation; he only lasted one semester of seminary. PD to priest is very rare, and should be.

As to the OP, there is absolutely nothing wrong with courting while in formation, as stated above there is no canon speaking against this. We have one man in formation right now scheduled to be ordained in 2014 who is divorced and has had his marriage annulled and is in a courting relationship. The girlfriend goes to the formation classes with him. Our bishop’s opinion is that he is neither married nor ordained as of yet, so what’s the problem? The candidate knows if he marries he will have to wait to be ordained, at least five years after marriage. He also knows that if he discerns into ordination as a single man he must live a celibate life.

I’ve known 2 in AOD. that went on to the priesthood after their wives passes away. Maybe it depends on the dioceses what in talking with different deacons i’ve know, if married, they are not suppose to remarry if the wife dies.

 

[Lapey]

I’ve known 2 in AOD. that went on to the priesthood after their wives passes away. Maybe it depends on the dioceses what in talking with different deacons i’ve know, if married, they are not suppose to remarry if the wife dies.

Your experience is the exception, I can asure you.

Also, did my post lead you to believe I thought married deacons can re-marry after being widowed? This was not my intent at all. It is not a diosecan policy, it is a Church policy. Only through dispensation from Rome can an ordained deacon be re-married after ordination. But he can be courting or be married during formation before ordination. This probably will delay his ordination however.

Sorry if my posts were confusing.

 

[robwar]

Your experience is the exception, I can asure you.

Also, did my post lead you to believe I thought married deacons can re-marry after being widowed? This was not my intent at all. It is not a diosecan policy, it is a Church policy. Only through dispensation from Rome can an ordained deacon be re-married after ordination. But he can be courting or be married during formation before ordination. This probably will delay his ordination however.

Sorry if my posts were confusing.

no problem and thank-you for answering God’s call in your life and may you be blessed in your ministry!

 

[Petergee]

This is 100% the decision of the bishop, not us. And yes it is that simple.

Again, this is the bishop to decide what is or is not a good idea.

I didn’t say it wasn’t.

The bare minimum is three years; most programs are 4 and 5 years. My diocese requires five. Many dioceses are requiring more than is mandated; many are starting to require degrees before ordination also. I would like to have received the college degree for the years I spent in formation, but oh well, it is what it is.

Actually some that I know have taken less than 3 years because they already had a bachelor’s degree in theology/pastoral studies and/or had many years of lay pastoral-type experience.

This part is just false. Signing off on a document of agreement is required before ordination, not formation. Yes it is good for the wife to be involved and in agreement from the beginning, but not required. As to the wife being a practicing Catholic point, again, not true. One of my classmates is married to a Southern Baptist and he was ordained.

I said most, not all.