Widow's dilemma

[lostNconfused87]

Hi

My husband of 26 years passed away 2 years ago. We were married in the Church. I consider myself to be a devout Catholic and I live my faith by active ministry in the Church.

A year ago I began dating. Friendships have gone by the wayside and relationships fizzled because I do not believe in cohabitation and I do not believe in casual sex. I am in my late fifties and I have slept with only two men in my entire life and they happened to be the men I married. In this day and age, this is rare to say the least.

Two months ago I met a Catholic man who attends Church regularly and we share many of the same beliefs and core values. I am struggling with the dilemma of where this relationship will go. I love him and he loves me. I believe that intimacy between one man and one woman who completely love one another is not fornication. Rather, the total giving of myself would be considered an act of love. Where is the sin?

For financial reasons we may never be able to marry because I would lose my husband’s pensions. I know that I cannot live with him because I believe that I must set an example to people around me and because I do not think it is morally correct.

So, again, I question at my age, where is the sin if I choose to give myself totally and exclusively to him?

This is a real dilemma for the both of us and I hope this forum will help me find peace.

 

[Caesar517]

Hello, Sylvia. I’m sorry for the loss of your husband.

I believe that intimacy between one man and one woman who completely love one another is not fornication. Rather, the total giving of myself would be considered an act of love.

There is a clear definition of “fornication” and yours is not consistent with it. Everyone who falls into this sin convinces themselves that what you wrote above is true, only to regret it later.

If you can’t marry him, perhaps you are not called to another marriage? Pray about it, discuss it with a priest.

 

[newbetx]

Hi

For financial reasons we may never be able to marry because I would lose my husband’s pensions. I know that I cannot live with him because I believe that I must set an example to people around me and because I do not think it is morally correct.

.

So you are unwilling to risk your husband’s pension for a proper life with this new man. That is a risk. But you know, it’s no more of a risk than your past two marriages. We sign up to do alot when we say “I do.” But when you aren’t married and “do the deed” you are really not commiting yourself to one another. You aren’t saying “until death do us part.”
I’m afraid you may regret your actions some day.

 

[Christy_Beth]

Two months is an awful short period of time to be thinking of such a committment. Give yourself time to get to know each other better. Sometimes it takes awhile to find out if you’re right for one another. Also, you are really seeing him as he may be, warts and all. Get to know the warts as well.

 

[thistle]

Hi

My husband of 26 years passed away 2 years ago. We were married in the Church. I consider myself to be a devout Catholic and I live my faith by active ministry in the Church.

A year ago I began dating. Friendships have gone by the wayside and relationships fizzled because I do not believe in cohabitation and I do not believe in casual sex. I am in my late fifties and I have slept with only two men in my entire life and they happened to be the men I married. In this day and age, this is rare to say the least.

Two months ago I met a Catholic man who attends Church regularly and we share many of the same beliefs and core values. I am struggling with the dilemma of where this relationship will go. I love him and he loves me. I believe that intimacy between one man and one woman who completely love one another is not fornication. Rather, the total giving of myself would be considered an act of love. Where is the sin?

For financial reasons we may never be able to marry because I would lose my husband’s pensions. I know that I cannot live with him because I believe that I must set an example to people around me and because I do not think it is morally correct.

So, again, I question at my age, where is the sin if I choose to give myself totally and exclusively to him?

This is a real dilemma for the both of us and I hope this forum will help me find peace.

You views are at odds with the Church teaching and you would put yourself into a state of mortal sin and endanger your immortal soul. Why would you want to do that?

CCC 2353 Fornication is carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of persons and of human sexuality which is naturally ordered to the good of spouses and the generation and education of children. Moreover, it is a grave scandal when there is corruption of the young.

 

[Just_Lurking]

This is a matter better suited to discussion with your priest in person.

 

[StCsDavid]

Sex outside the covenant of marriage is a sin. There’s no getting around that.

But an interesting question just popped into my head. Would a person be allowed to get married in the Church, but not married as a civil matter? Certainly there would be legal consequences with regard to the civil law, such as one spouse not necessarily having all of the rights under the law associated with marriage, but that would not impact the sacramental nature of the marriage would it? If the OP were allowed to marry in the Church but avoid marriage in the civil courts, would this help her dilemma. Granted I ask this not having my first cup of coffee for the morning.

 

[Jay53]

Sex outside the covenant of marriage is a sin. There’s no getting around that.

But an interesting question just popped into my head. Would a person be allowed to get married in the Church, but not married as a civil matter? Certainly there would be legal consequences with regard to the civil law, such as one spouse not necessarily having all of the rights under the law associated with marriage, but that would not impact the sacramental nature of the marriage would it? If the OP were allowed to marry in the Church but avoid marriage in the civil courts, would this help her dilemma. Granted I ask this not having my first cup of coffee for the morning.

That’s a very good question! I wonder if something like that is possible? Hopefully someone more knowledgable on the subject will answer.

 

[bilop]

Sex outside the covenant of marriage is a sin. There’s no getting around that.

But an interesting question just popped into my head. Would a person be allowed to get married in the Church, but not married as a civil matter? Certainly there would be legal consequences with regard to the civil law, such as one spouse not necessarily having all of the rights under the law associated with marriage, but that would not impact the sacramental nature of the marriage would it? If the OP were allowed to marry in the Church but avoid marriage in the civil courts, would this help her dilemma. Granted I ask this not having my first cup of coffee for the morning.

I think the Church would only allow you to not marry civilly if it were a question of persecution or fearing unjust treatment.

In this case, the Church would seem to be helping the OP in perpetrating a fraud by hiding he marriage in order to gain money. I don’t believe the Church could do that.

God Bless

 

[Newbie2]

Hi

My husband of 26 years passed away 2 years ago. We were married in the Church. I consider myself to be a devout Catholic and I live my faith by active ministry in the Church.

A year ago I began dating. Friendships have gone by the wayside and relationships fizzled because I do not believe in cohabitation and I do not believe in casual sex. I am in my late fifties and I have slept with only two men in my entire life and they happened to be the men I married. In this day and age, this is rare to say the least.

Two months ago I met a Catholic man who attends Church regularly and we share many of the same beliefs and core values. I am struggling with the dilemma of where this relationship will go. I love him and he loves me. I believe that intimacy between one man and one woman who completely love one another is not fornication. Rather, the total giving of myself would be considered an act of love. Where is the sin?

For financial reasons we may never be able to marry because I would lose my husband’s pensions. I know that I cannot live with him because I believe that I must set an example to people around me and because I do not think it is morally correct.

So, again, I question at my age, where is the sin if I choose to give myself totally and exclusively to him?

This is a real dilemma for the both of us and I hope this forum will help me find peace.

Ask yourself if the sin would apply if you were a previously unmarried teenger.

Hmmmm. I’d hope that you’d say yes.

Sex outside of marriage is sinful. Seems to me that you’re attaching conditions to lessen the culpability of sex outside of marriage. Being a “devout Catholic” and old enough to know better, and in all charity, I gotta ask if you’re really asking a serious question here.

Again, in all charity, how is this different than prostitution? OK, that’s a little strong, but you’re wanting to have sex and keep the money flowing in. There’s a parallel there, methinks.

Sorry if this seems harsh, but I fail to see how you can “not believe in casual sex” yet feel it is OK to have sex with a guy you’ve known for TWO MONTHS! You don’t also believe in “cohabitation” (not that living together makes anything any less sinful), so it’s not clear whether you want to not live together and have sex or live apart and have sex.

Again, using money to rationalize sex outside of marriage to me is akin to prostituion. Sorry if that seems harsh.

 

[StCsDavid]

I think the Church would only allow you to not marry civilly if it were a question of persecution or fearing unjust treatment.

In this case, the Church would seem to be helping the OP in perpetrating a fraud by hiding he marriage in order to gain money. I don’t believe the Church could do that.

God Bless

Yes, I can see the issue there. The other thing I’ve thought of is that the priest, at least in America, does act as a representative of the civil authority in performing the marriage. There could be some legal consequences for him performing a marriage that might not be considered legal by the state. I’m not sure that is the case in other countries. But to your point, material wealth is hardly a good excuse to stretch or break the law or put a priest in the position of doing same.

 

[Middleman]

It would be nice if the Church and State could be more separate in cases like this, thus allowing you to obtain a Church wedding without losing your late husband’s pension. It’s unfortunate that our government punishes people for marrying, I think it’s unjust. My sympathies to you and this awful dilemma!

 

[TLM08]

Two months is an awful short period of time to be thinking of such a committment. Give yourself time to get to know each other better. Sometimes it takes awhile to find out if you’re right for one another. Also, you are really seeing him as he may be, warts and all. Get to know the warts as well.

Great post!
Yup… I agree. Two months is way too soon to be thinking about being serious about anyone.

Remain available to others. Enjoy his company and companionship. Give it at least a year before you give this man your heart.

Don’t let sexual needs (his or yours) cloud your judgement.

In a perfect world, one waits for marriage to satisfy these needs, but this world is far from perfect. There are other “options” for satisfying those needs if you must. Let your conscience and intellect be your guide.

A little prayer couldn’t hurt either.

God Bless you dearheart!

 

[bilop]

In a perfect world, one waits for marriage to satisfy these needs, but this world is far from perfect. There are other “options” for satisfying those needs if you must. Let your conscience and intellect be your guide.

A little prayer couldn’t hurt either.

God Bless you dearheart!

Why are you advocating a different sexual sin as a “solution” for her problem?

This is a Catholic board. We should be counseling each other to avoid sin. Not to pick a sin that you personally find to be “better”.

God Bless

 

[YADA]

It would be nice if the Church and State could be more separate in cases like this, thus allowing you to obtain a Church wedding without losing your late husband’s pension. It’s unfortunate that our government punishes people for marrying, I think it’s unjust. My sympathies to you and this awful dilemma!

Why would you see this as the “government” punishing people who marry?

The OP does not state where the pensions are founded but one would guess that if they would be lost due to re-marriage that would be a foundational component of the plan and as such knowable and agreed to by both parties [the man earning the pension and the entity providing the pension] …

A widow may collect social security on her husbands earnings even if they divorced and she later remarries [as long as the minimum qualifications were met] … in that case she may collect from whichever husband’s benefit is greater but not both … that "government’ program seems more than very fair and hardly “punishing” someone for gettin married …

The problem here is a common one - that we all “want” what serves our selfish interest.

This person would like to change the rules … marry and keep the pension or engage in sexual relations outside the marriage bond … and both are cloaked in self serving justifications that are design to get the desired outcome for the OP.

It is hard to live the Gospel, to die to self and live in Christ … it means that we must sacrifice our “wants” at times and control our “desires” …

Here is my $0.02 given in a spirit oflove and charity by one who had struggled with similar if not exactly the same questions …

The OP should sit down and get all the answers she needs to make a Christian morally and ethical decision about her life… What are her financial needs, what are the real facts and consequences of life decisions upon her late husbands pensions. What are the financial benefits and costs if she were to marry this new person. Do they truly desire a Christian marriage no matter the cost [and cost here is not just financial - do they have children, how will the assets brought to a new marriage be distributed and childrens rights protected, has he been married before and is he free to contract a new marriage - ie no divorce, etc]. In a relationship that is not even three months old - I woulld think that sexual intimacy and pensions are far down the list of priorities …

Good Luck and God Bless your discernment …

 

[pnewton]

It would be nice if the Church and State could be more separate in cases like this, thus allowing you to obtain a Church wedding without losing your late husband’s pension. It’s unfortunate that our government punishes people for marrying, I think it’s unjust. My sympathies to you and this awful dilemma!

I understand this dilemna and have know one other person in it. She choose to give up the financial benefit to stay true to the faith. However, I think it is a worthy enough question to deserve being addressed by a pro. Talk to your priest.

 

[Just_Lurking]

If this is social security, then the OP could get married in the Catholic Church, and then obtain a civil divorce. The Catholic Church would still consider her to be married, but the U.S. government would start up the social security payments again.

 

[YADA]

If this is social security, then the OP could get married in the Catholic Church, and then obtain a civil divorce. The Catholic Church would still consider her to be married, but the U.S. government would start up the social security payments again.

If she is old enough to collect social security she would just go back to the amount she collected on her own right - providing she worked enough quarters to qualify … both spouses can collect social security … if one dies then the surviving spouse can collect either on there own or their deceased’s - whichever is the greatest … and as I said even if they remarry they can collect on whichever spouse had the largest benefit …

Now one would guess that if she marries her new spouse would bring some form of support to the marriage …

This really is a case of wanting to re-write the rules for selfish interests …

 

[TLM08]

Why are you advocating a different sexual sin as a “solution” for her problem?

This is a Catholic board. We should be counseling each other to avoid sin. Not to pick a sin that you personally find to be “better”.

God Bless

This woman just lost the love of her life. After 26 years of love and physical intimacy you expect a healthy middle aged woman to live like a cloistered nun? This woman is seeking guidance. The last thing she needs is a guilt loaded beat-down.

I said it was an “option” to help keep her physical needs from clouding her judgement regarding a very serious issue… not the perfect solution. We need to stop sticking our heads in the sand when it comes to these matters.

 

[happymommy]

This woman just lost the love of her life. After 26 years of love and physical intimacy you expect a healthy middle aged woman to live like a cloistered nun? This woman is seeking guidance. The last thing she needs is a guilt loaded beat-down.

I said it was an “option” to help keep her physical needs from clouding her judgement regarding a very serious issue… not the perfect solution. We need to stop sticking our heads in the sand when it comes to these matters.

It’s not an option, it’s a sin. It doesn’t matter who she has lost, you can’t tell her it’s okay to commit one sin in order to avoid another!