Wife and I concerned about hypocrisy in the church

[amans_veritatis]

I know where you are coming from. I converted about 14 years ago from being a Baptist. I have heard talk of fellowship only a handful of times. I wish we had more people like you that are devoted to serving Christ. Maybe it is your calling to put a spark into your Catholic friends, or at least remind them of what they are missing by living a secular life except on Sundays when they are required to go to church (which they may or may not do depending on there commitment).

Maybe it is your calling to bring your protestant friends over to the Catholic faith. If you know the truth shouldn’t they? How great would that be if you had them at your church?

There will be sinners everywhere. The Catholic Church is so huge that, yes, we have many levels of faith. But unlike many of our protestant brothers we still attend church even though it may be contrary to the way we lead our lives.

Thanks for being honest. This is exactly what I was talking about. But it seems that you agree that once one agrees intellectually with the Church’s claims, there is no going back, right?

How else would you describe your experience? Have there been those along the way who have refreshed you?

 

[po18guy]

My wife is a cradle Catholic and I joined after we were married seven years. Since then, we have both gone through profound changes in our faith. We have both been on a journey of faith, from neophyte to full believer. All along, we have seen those who did not appear reverent, did not appear genuine in their faith, who appeared bored at mass and who, frankly, were a disappointment to us. We listened to homilies that did not seem to speak to us.

For some reason, we persevered, as we both knew that we had nowhere else to go. We moved and met a Charismatic priest at another parish who lit our faith on fire. We note that the same type of disinterested catholics were still attending the mass wherever we went. However, several of our personal beliefs deepened.

The first is belief in the Eucharist. Once we were given the grace to believe that it is Jesus Christ in the flesh, it transformed our experience. Once given the grace to know that the cup is His Blood, we were transformed. The thought of eating the Lord’s Body and drinking His Blood became a spiritually intoxicating event. The reverence with which we approach Him has changed 100%.

In short, Jesus Christ is the Alpha and the Omega in the Catholic Church. Once you desire only Him, all else will follow and be provided for you by your Heavenly Father, Who knows what your spiritual life needs.

Become Catholic and remain Catholic for Jesus Christ. Attend mass for Jesus Christ. There is no other reason. I would be honored to call you full brother and sister in the faith. There is so much awaiting you that it cannot be fully explained by anyone but the Lord. Trust Him.

The only reason we go to mass is Jesus Christ. We are learning to ignore the irreverent around us, as we realize that they are all at a different point in their conversion to Christ. We pray for them, just as many prayed for us when we were new.

Make Jesus Christ superior to anything else and you will love the church. Place Him first and all else will follow. Spend time before Him in adoration and allow him to speak to your hearts. When you are aware that He is there, it matters not one bit what others are doing, or not doing.

Once you desire Christ above all else, and make the Tabernacle the center of your church life, you will meet more devout Catholics and will call the less devout to you through your own example.

Christ’s peace and may God bless you on your journey.

 

[Oblaidon]

Thanks for being honest. This is exactly what I was talking about. But it seems that you agree that once one agrees intellectually with the Church’s claims, there is no going back, right?

How else would you describe your experience? Have there been those along the way who have refreshed you?

Yes, I could never go back to being protestant.

These forums and Catholic Radio have given me much of what I feel I need to continue on. As far as my Catholic relatives and friends, our religious life doesn’t appear on the forefront. Besides saying grace before we eat, God is not on the topic of most of our conversations. I am joining a bible study group with our church. I was a lector with my old church and didn’t make close friends, but I had many good friends at church. I hope to make some friends through the Bible study class. Your story as sparked me into searching for the class again.

Something inside me wants me to know my faith better. There was always something about my Baptist side of the family that pushed me towards Christ. There is the fire of the Lord (this is best I can put into words) that I found in the Baptist church that I still seek.

I have strayed from the Baptist church and I didn’t even know it. Then I became Catholic and also strayed from the Catholic Church. I really know when I commit the slightest sin, because I am constantly examining my sins before taking the host. The Catholic Church makes so much sense to me that I cannot deny it being the Church that Christ had in mind. It is not perfect, because humans are not perfect, but there, if you attend mass at least every week, and you believe fully in the Church, you will know when you are straying. My conscience won’t let me stray too far and will bring me back into the Church.

 

[Oblaidon]

For some reason, we persevered, as we both knew that we had nowhere else to go.

po18guy,

You phrased your thoughts very well. Reminds me of what Peter said, “To whom do we turn?” He believed in Christ and knew to accept him regardless. As we believe in the Church, regardless of the friends we may lose, the difficulties we may face, and how people may react.

 

[Robbinson]

Anyway, this is probably still the biggest issue for both of us, because although we can assent to the intellectual arguments for Catholicism, we are still in an environment where most of the Catholics are not really trying to live for God. We feel like we have to choose between joining the “true Church” and being surrounded by hypocrites who will probably spurn us for trying to be real Catholics, or being in a Protestant church full of people who are there because they really want to be, and who love God and are seeking to follow Him.

What is your advice to us?

I can relate with this concern. I’m currently in RCIA because I have come to believe in the truth of the Catholic Church.

While I’ve been worshiping in the Anglican community for the last 3 years (because of a craving for liturgy), my family (wife and children, and I’ve been accompanying them) have principally be worshipping in a pentacostal evangelical Church. My oldest daughter (17) is an “on fire” evangelical - we discuss this issue often and its the principal obstacle to her seriously considering the Catholic Church.

I believe, ultimately, its more important to be obedient in faith to where God is calling us (to his true Church) and then work from within to try to make a difference in the pews. If you haven’t read it yet, I’d recommend Scott Hahn’s “Rome Sweet Home”. There was a passage in that book which touched my heart (on this very issue) where Scott is describing to his wife Kim his enthusiasm for the doctrine of the Church, but dissappointment in conversations with the first two priest he approached regarding conversion. Kim told him to research further to make sure the Catholic Church he had discovered (that holds the truth) still exits! It was a frank and honest question - fortunately, he apparently found it within the body of the Church.

Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more or compare notes on the journey. I plan to enter the Church in Easter and pray my wife and children will join some day.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[LilyM]

The Apostles had all the ‘fellowship’ in the world - where did it get them when the crunch really came - when their LORD was crucified and they were supposed to stand up as His followers? Judas betrayed Him, Peter denied Him and the others except John ran away.

Where did it get them AFTER Easter? They still had their moments of hypocrisy, Peter still tried to save face by refusing to eat with Gentiles while hypocritically TEACHING that Gentiles need not obey the Jewish law.

Paul still lost his temper and argued with him to his face. And while saying how bad it is to boast nonetheless somewhat hypocritically brags about his numerous sufferings in order to build up his ‘cred’ with his followers.

All Churches are made up of human beings - very HUMAN human beings, with faults and failings and sometimes hypocrisies. You might not have seen as many in your other churches, but be assured they were there.

How many of those ‘on-fire’ Christians you’ve seen probably shut their doors after going home from church and proceed to curse out their children, abuse drugs or alcohol, cheat on their husbands or wives or steal from their employers …

 

[Galnextdoor]

The church is full of sinners and fallen people who struggle to do God’s will. (If it were otherwise, we wouldn’t have needed Christ to die for us.)

In the late '60’s through the early '80’s, there was much turmoil and confusion among the priests, bishops etc. in the Catholic church. Some people used Vatican II as an excuse to promote all types of false doctrine. Consequently, there is a whole generation of Catholics who received little or no education about the Churches true teachings. In a college town where I went to church, there were priests who were telling the college kids that there was nothing wrong with one night stands as long as you were not using the other person. I knew it was wrong, but the other Catholic kids ignored me, making remarks about when I became a priest they would listen to me.

So don’t judge the people you see as hypocrites, many are simply uncatichized and ignorant.

Please don’t let this deter you from becoming Catholic. John Paul II wanted the laity to evangelize their neighbors.

We have a high school Catechism teacher in our parish who is a convert. He is on fire for God. He draws a crowd of high school kids to every class. We desperately need people who on fire for God to lead our young people.

Come join us.

 

[buffalo]

May Churches have the following organizations: In addition there may be school groups:

Here is a typical list:

Bereavement Breakfast Bereavement Support
Bishop’s Committee
Boy Scouts
Buildings & Grounds
Children’s Choir
Children’s Liturgy
Youth Assocciation
Cub Scouts
Extraordinary Ministers
Faith Formation
Faith Sharing
3rd Friday Adoration
Greeters
Holy Name Society
Hospitality
Hospital Visitation
Keep in Touch
Ladies Sodality
Lectors
Marriage Preparation
Meal Ministry
Men’s Group
Mission
Nocturnal Adoration
Parish Council
Picnic Committee
RCIA
Respect Life
Saint Joseph Workers
Shawl Ministry
Ushers

 

[Monica4316]

This is something I had to deal with as well in my journey to the Church. I was baptized Eastern Orthodox as a child and then became a Protestant in university. I went to a non denominatinal church. When it became certain to me that God wants me to be Catholic, it was hard to deal with because I felt like I was leaving so much behind…including fellowship, etc.

The thing is that there are so many Catholics out there, much more than Protestants, and attending Mass is a requirement… so you get a whole variety of people there, some devout, some not. Whereas in Protestant churches, those who go there, want to.

I think the solution is really just to trust God and let Him take care of it, as simple as it sounds I tried doing this, and - He really helped me with all my worries… eventually, I met really devout Catholics, made good friends… I joined a Catholic group at my university and met strong believers there, the group prays the Liturgy of the Hours every evening in a nearby church God also lead me to a parish with good fellowship.

But strangely, the more I get into the Catholic faith the less church becomes about fellowship, or others, for me… I love the prayerful atmosphere, how you can just come and pray before Mass on the kneeler… how you can stay behind afterwards and talk to Jesus present in the Tabernacle… Adoration is awesome too… I’ve gotten much closer to God through all this than I ever was in the Protestant church. The Eucharist is really the heart of the Catholic faith.

God bless

 

[Scruffy]

Hi Amans and welcome to the Forums! We’re thrilled you and your wife are “on the banks of the Tiber”! It is God’s great love for you both that has brought you this far. Please continue to follow His internal inspirations.

Regarding your issue with hypocrisy I think you will find that in any church. I think a lot of “cradle Catholics” suffer from it because in their youth it was a family thing…everyone went to Mass and went through all the Sacraments because it was “the thing to do”. Granted, many received great instruction from parents, family, friends and the Church. Yet it seems many fall away as young adults due to the culture of the times. Others remain in the Church but stray into sinful ways. Others stay this way even into their later years, never really experiencing the joy of full devotion. I was one of these. But since my late 20’s I’ve been totally on fire for the Church. Nothing could ever make me deny Her or leave Her. However, I do have my “hypocrisy” moments. It’s all part of the spirtual walk.

I’ve known many non-Catholics who appeared to be “on fire” for the Lord who were into drugs, alcohol, extramarital sex, etc. They would justify it by saying “I’m saved!”. Personally, if it werent’ for the Sacraments, I’d be doomed.

I guess my point is, many of us may not be any better than Protestants, but at least we’re in the right place; the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church!

My prayers are with you and your wife. I hope we get to read about you both in RCIA!!!

Peace in Christ!

Scruffy the Wonder Mutt

 

[Fidelis]

It has been wisely said:
One should not judge an organization on the behavior of its worst members but, rather, on the ones who are its best examples of living out the organizations ideals.

 

[Monica4316]

It has been wisely said:
**One should not judge an organization on the behavior of its worst **members but, rather, on the ones who are its best examples of living out the organizations ideals.

this would be the Saints

 

[Vanessa]

Look deeper. There’s a difference between devout Protestants and devout Catholics.

When I’m with a devout Protestant, I probably come off as distant. Their thinking is so different from mine that I don’t know what to say without appearing rude, so I often just smile politely. Even subjects we agree about can’t be talked about because they’re approached so differently. Now, if we were discussing differences or theology, I could handle that. But polite conversation is different.

And my customs are different. I was taught right and wrong and just know the difference, I don’t feel the need to justify it with a bible verse. It’s like stating the obvious, which I find boring and mildly insulting.

And sometimes those empty Catholics aren’t so empty. When you know someone and learn how they put God in their life, you might not judge them as so empty anymore. American Catholics are very private about their faith, maybe because we’ve been so persecuted. We use to have so many priests and religious, we always left the overt evangelization work to them and evangelized only with our living example.

Anyway, it’s a culture that takes time to understand. There’s a big difference between cradle Catholics and converts.