Wife getting an IUD

[The_Bucket]

Someone using ABC is misguided, and I’d counsel them about their sin.

A rapist? I’d put a bullet through his skull and worry about the consequences later.

 

[shannyk]

OP if she goes ahead with it. Don’t have relations with her. A lot of the posts have been if it would be a sin for you. The true loving thing to do is to refuse because it absolutely is a sin for HER. By refusing you 1) force a discussion on the issue and 2) keep your spouse from committing additional sin. If you make this clear (as lovingly but firm as possible) before her appointment, she may avoid mortal sin altogether. Make it clear that it is not about you but out of your love an concern for her. It is our jobs to help our spouses make it to heaven. In marriage the motivation always has to be for the good of the other (or the both).

As an aside (not addressed to OP) it is striking the difference in reaction to ABC sins versus other grave sexual sins. They are very much related.

what’s striking to me is that people are constantly trying to minimize sexual sin of all kinds here in these forums. i don’t get it. a grave sin is something that if you love someone, you go to extreme lengths to help them avoid. no one seems to want to do that anymore:shrug: it’s all platitudes.

 

[RedSoxWife]

I think there is an “outrage limit” that people can have. If you get vehemently outraged at every slight known to man, how do you have the energy to get angry at things like the holocaust?

I’m not sure there is an “outrage limit” on the destruction of human life. Both the pill and the IUD are thought by quite a few scientists to destroy created human life by preventing implantation. And the destruction of human life has most definitely become something comparable with the holocaust. Think of the scale on which life has been destroyed.

If my husband decided that he were going to kill our unborn children that would absolutely be the end of all relations until he came to his senses. I’m not going to put his soul in danger through cooperating with evil and I’m not going to risk the lives of our potential children. If he wanted to leave, that would be his choice. But I wouldn’t cooperate with the destruction of his soul and the destruction of my children’s lives.

As spouses we’re supposed to be leading each other towards heaven. There’s no way an intrinsically evil act, killing an unborn child, can contribute to that in any way.

 

[Rascalking]

I’m not sure there is an “outrage limit” on the destruction of human life. .

I hope your right, in fact, I dearly, dearly hope your right.

However, and I get ZERO pleasure saying this, I respectfully disagree with you. Too many people do have limits on how much they can handle. how much they can get upset about, etc. It’s just human nature.

Also, I apologize for using the word “holocaust” in my metaphor. It is such a loaded and devastating word (as it should be) and I shouldn’t have compared it to abortion. (Yes, I think abortion is abhorrent as well)

By the way-Red sox fan? Oh dear…I’m the only person in New Hampshire that is a fanatical baseball fan (going so far as to gleefully pay way too much money for the Extra Innings package to watch out of market games on my cable subscriber) and is NOT a Red Sox fan.

Abortion is one thing. Baseball is another much more serious issue. We’ve got to keep our priorities straight. (that’s a joke as well people!)

 

[Seatuck]

Well, we have been using NFP for over 20 years. My wife is 46 yrs old and has made uop her mind to get an IUD because she fears getting pregnant at her age. We have one son 20 yrs old in college. She is unhappy using NFP because she values the freedom of “having relatiosn anytime the mood strikes.”

While a lot of posts have focused on the issues surrounding getting an IUD, etc. I am more concerned that if she gets the IUD (worst case scenario) what does it mean for me morally?
Am I cooperating in evil? Am I committing a sin or just my wife?

Any help would be appreciated…

How often will your mood strike if you know you will be potentially aborting a child soon after the act?

I think that if you do choose to continue relations you will be an accessory to your wife’s sin. That’s problematic. Is that the way Christ would act? If the husband is "the priest "or t"he Christ "n the relationship of the sacrament of marriage how should he act?

You need to seriously talk to your wife on how this would affect you and your marriage. The nature of the meaning of your marital act will change also . Each marital act will no longer have marital meaning because one of you is deliberately holding something back.

Look into Theology of the Body to explore further.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

How often will your mood strike if you know you will be potentially aborting a child soon after the act?

I think that if you do choose to continue relations you will be an accessory to your wife’s sin. That’s problematic. Is that the way Christ would act? If the husband is "the priest "or t"he Christ "n the relationship of the sacrament of marriage how should he act?

You need to seriously talk to your wife on how this would affect you and your marriage. The nature of the meaning of your marital act will change also . Each marital act will no longer have marital meaning because one of you is deliberately holding something back.

Look into Theology of the Body to explore further.

He will not be an accessory to anything because his wife is taking the IUD against his wishes.

He has to weigh the very real possibility that the marriage will be over if he refuses to put out. The Church allows the non-contracepting spouse to continue relations for that very reason. Telling him to refuse sex or he is an accessory to murder is very bad advice. The OP needs to go and talk to a good priest for guidance in this case; there is too much unknown to give good advice over the internet.

 

[whm]

The Church allows the non-contracepting spouse to continue relations for that very reason.

With condoms/barriers/spermicide perhaps, abortion causing IUD I don’t think so. Why in to world would you allow the spouse you love to put their soul in danger? On top of that allowing the potential destruction of multiple babies without the possibility of baptism is quite disturbing.

Without a doubt he should be talking to his priest. Playing pope and telling him it is in no way a sin (based on advice regarding condom use) doesn’t help accomplish this.

OP why don’t you post this question on CAF apologist thread where you can get a more definitive answer?

 

[Seatuck]

He will not be an accessory to anything because his wife is taking the IUD against his wishes.

He has to weigh the very real possibility that the marriage will be over if he refuses to put out. The Church allows the non-contracepting spouse to continue relations for that very reason. Telling him to refuse sex or he is an accessory to murder is very bad advice. The OP needs to go and talk to a good priest for guidance in this case; there is too much unknown to give good advice over the internet.

Did you read the document given earlier in this thread with regard to abortifacient means of contraception? What did it say?
Here I’ll help you -

1

1. Furthermore, it is necessary to carefully evaluate the question of cooperation in evil when recourse is made to means which can have an abortifacient effect.48

His sexual relations with his wife can be considered cooperation in evil because of the abortifacient properties of an IUD.

His wife needs to weigh this as well. Why are you giving her a pass?
We could just as easily say the she will not get an IUD because it will cause her husband to not want sex with her because they may abort a child. Which is what he should tell her.

Abstinence until she is beyond menopause if she is that serious is something they should consider.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

It says to carefully evaluate - it doesn’t prohibit anything. If they wanted to prohibit sex in those circumstances they would have just come out and said so.

 

[budgie2]

Well, we have been using NFP for over 20 years. My wife is 46 yrs old and has made uop her mind to get an IUD because she fears getting pregnant at her age. We have one son 20 yrs old in college. She is unhappy using NFP because she values the freedom of “having relatiosn anytime the mood strikes.”

While a lot of posts have focused on the issues surrounding getting an IUD, etc. I am more concerned that if she gets the IUD (worst case scenario) what does it mean for me morally?
Am I cooperating in evil? Am I committing a sin or just my wife?

Any help would be appreciated…

IUDs are one of the worst. What it means is that if you have sex with her she could abort your baby and then you are joint murderers from the point of view of a pro-life Catholic. I would have a vasectomy although if you are pro-life you also have just grounds for separation. She might not be as honest as she sounds and sometimes women have secret abortions whilst claiming to be pro-life.

 

[Jane11]

Got news for you all - last year I was 49 and pregnant, but sadly miscarried early on. A friend at the church where we were had a 50 year old cousin that gave birth to a healthy, “perfect” baby. As someone said, “these women don’t make the news.” Why? No drug company, etc. stands to make money from the baby’s birth. There are lots of, “change of life babies” people just don’t make a big deal about it, that’s all.

 

[Seatuck]

Got news for you all - last year I was 49 and pregnant, but sadly miscarried early on. A friend at the church where we were had a 50 year old cousin that gave birth to a healthy, “perfect” baby. As someone said, “these women don’t make the news.” Why? No drug company, etc. stands to make money from the baby’s birth. There are lots of, “change of life babies” people just don’t make a big deal about it, that’s all.

I’m sorry for your loss.

 

[Jane11]

Wow, thanks, I didn’t expect any response to our loss at all. You’re the only person that ever said anything. At church, no one knew what to say.COLOR

 

[Irish_Girl_68]

Someone may well have touched on this, but if not…the real mystery here (in my mind) is how the wife has done a 360 on church teaching. She followed NFP for 20 years and now is choosing what is likely the worst contraceptive choice in terms of abortafacient potential? Something doesn’t add up. Is it possible she doesn’t want sex at all and feels if she chooses this drastic method, her spouse won’t want to have relations? Is she angry with the Church? Lots of unknowns here. As for speaking with a priest, I don’t disagree with that, but you could ask 10 different priests and get 10 different answers. My own opinion (and I’m sure I’ll get filleted for this): Speak with several priests and in the meantime, wear a condom while having intercourse. Denying the spouse sexual relations for whatever reason could destroy the marriage. Granted, I think it’s wrong this man has been placed in this position and his wife is being quite selfish. That said, denying his wife sex is not likely to heal their marriage. Using a condom will help prevent fertilization of an egg, thus lessening the chance of the abortafacient property of the IUD coming into play. It’s not an ideal scenario, clearly, and there is moral compromise in it. That said, keeping the marriage intact and healing/fixing whatever issues are there needs to be kept in mind as well.

 

[Seatuck]

Wow, thanks, I didn’t expect any response to our loss at all. You’re the only person that ever said anything. At church, no one knew what to say.

It’s hard to know what to say sometimes even when the obvious is right there.
I have two children that I have high hopes are in heaven praying for the rest of us in the family.

 

[AMDG58]

Firstly I wish to thank all who have expressed their support, counsel and offered their prayers.
This is a very difficult time in our marriage. My wife was never a strict Catholic. We followed NFP becasue I pushed it and she agreed. SHe has since become worried about becoming pregnant and under no circumstances would want to be pregnant. SHe talked to a so called “Catholic” gynecologist who advised her about the IUD…not the hormone producing kind. She is unconcerned, so she says, about Church teaching and points out not every Catholic uses NFP and a great majority uses some form of ABC.
I have not be very demonstrative or proactive about sexual intercourse throughout our marriage. So I guess it’s taken its toll and that si strictly my fault.
After much arguing she has agreed to put off getting an IUD until she figures out where we are in our marriage.
I guess I face the lesser of two evils. Agree to continue relations even with her having an IUD or divorce. The latter to me would be the greater I suppose?
I will continue to pray for her.

 

[ContegoFides]

AMDG,

I feel for your situation, it is terrible. I’m glad things have taken a positive turn.

I’ve seen some good advice here. In particular, you should see a priest. Addditionally, while it is true that it is not necessarily wrong to have relations with your wife if she insists on birth control, it is also true that the IUD is extremely abortifacient - in fact, that is it’s whole theory of operation.

You should talk with an orthodox priest and decide what to do based on his advice in your particular situation. However, if I faced this situation with my wife, here is what I would do. I’m assuming that I have failed to convince her to use NFP. (By the way, I have had these types of arguments with my anti-Catholic wife.)

1. Show her how the IUD works and show her that it does kill any embryo. Beg her not to use this device in particular. (Note: I would NOT encourage her to use some other form of artificial contraception, as then I would be complicit in that sin. However, maybe you can move her off of this method.)
2. If she insists on using the IUD and will not work with me, then I would not have relations with my wife after she got the device - ever. I would never want to knowingly have relations with my wife knowing that as a result of my act I was, or even could be, complicit in an abortion. Why would I ever want to go before God with that possibility on my conscience? I would explain my position to my wife in these terms and make them firm and clear. * I would NOT start with this position - it is the measure of last resort as it is ALSO a sin to deliberately withold relations from your wife when she asks unless you have just reason to refuse.* (Not to mention, you want to IMPROVE your relationship with your wife, not establish a relationship based on force.)
3. I would try to get her to go to marriage counseling with an orthodox Catholic counselor. Do not see a secular counselor, as you could immediately find yourself facing a unified wife+counselor arguing that YOU are being unreasonable.

Trust me when I say I know how hard option 2 is, as I’ve had personal experience with it. However, never compromise where God is concerned - we are Christ’s disciples FIRST and husbands second. That doesn’t mean that you should do anything to demean your wife, and it does mean you have to do everything possible to bear this cross in love, but it also means you must be faithful to God first if she insists on putting you squarely at odds with God or His Church.

I will pray for you.