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AKDee
Guest
Women having friendships with men is risky business because it many, many instances one or both people end up having an attraction that can either damage the friendship or lead to an affair. When I was younger, I held much the same view as your wife- that men and women could be friends. As an older and wiser person now, I no longer hold that view. It’s not that it’s impossible, but in addition to the challenges I already mentioned there is also the possibility of scandalizing other people and of damaging existing relationships/marriages even if nothing is going on. I think it’s respectful, when in a relationship or marriage, to choose not to have opposite sex friendships. The male friends I have that pre-date my relationship to my fiance still are friends but I do not see these people without my fiance present. And they are now his friends as well.
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Laura_N
Guest
Most of my friends are guys, and the most of the girlfriends I have is because they married my guy friends. I know it’s totally possible to be friends with the opposite sex without there ever being any problems. That being said, I think it’s completely inappropriate for a married person the have friends of the opposite sex who their spouse isn’t also friends with. My husband is good friends with all of my guy friends, they’re OUR friends, and that’s how I think it should be.
As far as hanging out with opposite sex friends one on one for the most part I feel like that’s inappropriate, with some possible exceptions. For instance one of my good friends I’ve literally known my entire life, he’s pretty much like a brother, he’s also one of my husband’s best friends. I wouldn’t think twice (and haven’t) about hanging out with him by ourselves, and neither would my husband or my friends wife (who I’m also good friends with).
As far as hanging out with opposite sex friends one on one for the most part I feel like that’s inappropriate, with some possible exceptions. For instance one of my good friends I’ve literally known my entire life, he’s pretty much like a brother, he’s also one of my husband’s best friends. I wouldn’t think twice (and haven’t) about hanging out with him by ourselves, and neither would my husband or my friends wife (who I’m also good friends with).
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EasterJoy
Guest
Of course there is a difference, or she wouldn’t prefer men. She may, however, tire of the conversations among the women she is acquainted with. There are few topics that don’t have both men and women interested in them, but there is definitely a difference in topics when one talks with men vs. women.
She may also be incorrectly assuming that because she sees all men but you as brothers that other men see her the same way. She has to realize that this is not true. Suffice it to say that the only wives that are going to see it this way are the wives of her actual brothers. Even they are not going to be wild about their husband having lunch dates with some other woman, even his sister, instead of with her. Let us face it: few woman have as many lunch dates with their husband as they would like to have! They certainly see the penalty flags flying any time a female “friend” starts trying to chum up with their husband but excludes them!!!
Here is your problem, though: Her female friends are not satisfactory friends for her. If you don’t address that, your wife is going to resent it. Most of us do need friends in addition to our spouses, after all.
When I was in college, I generally enjoyed the company of men rather than women, but also the company of other women who enjoyed the company of men. These tended to be women who were not interested in the things that men are not interested in, let’s put it that way. (These are the women who, if they talk about shopping for clothing or make-up at all, talk about how they wish they never had to do it, instead getting to choose one hairstyle and one formal suit that would last for the rest of their natural lives, like guys get to do.) Meanwhile, I found again and again that seeing a man as a brother was no guarantee he’d see me in a sisterly way. Even if these situations were no temptation for her, that doesn’t mean they are no temptation for her male friends. What if they are, though? Think about how thrilled these guys’ wives are going to be to hear what a great time their husband and your wife had together. Not so much! Try to help your wife see that this is not all about how she perceives things, even if her self-perception is entirely accurate. We have to be the friends of the marriages of our friends!
I’d suggest that she and you join co-ed groups having to do with activities you both like that are more favored by men rather than having a higher interest among women. She ought to be able find some female companionship there, not to mention companionship among men who are also friends of yours, men who will be far less tempted to see your wife as anything but a sister because you are there.
She may also be incorrectly assuming that because she sees all men but you as brothers that other men see her the same way. She has to realize that this is not true. Suffice it to say that the only wives that are going to see it this way are the wives of her actual brothers. Even they are not going to be wild about their husband having lunch dates with some other woman, even his sister, instead of with her. Let us face it: few woman have as many lunch dates with their husband as they would like to have! They certainly see the penalty flags flying any time a female “friend” starts trying to chum up with their husband but excludes them!!!
Here is your problem, though: Her female friends are not satisfactory friends for her. If you don’t address that, your wife is going to resent it. Most of us do need friends in addition to our spouses, after all.
When I was in college, I generally enjoyed the company of men rather than women, but also the company of other women who enjoyed the company of men. These tended to be women who were not interested in the things that men are not interested in, let’s put it that way. (These are the women who, if they talk about shopping for clothing or make-up at all, talk about how they wish they never had to do it, instead getting to choose one hairstyle and one formal suit that would last for the rest of their natural lives, like guys get to do.) Meanwhile, I found again and again that seeing a man as a brother was no guarantee he’d see me in a sisterly way. Even if these situations were no temptation for her, that doesn’t mean they are no temptation for her male friends. What if they are, though? Think about how thrilled these guys’ wives are going to be to hear what a great time their husband and your wife had together. Not so much! Try to help your wife see that this is not all about how she perceives things, even if her self-perception is entirely accurate. We have to be the friends of the marriages of our friends!
I’d suggest that she and you join co-ed groups having to do with activities you both like that are more favored by men rather than having a higher interest among women. She ought to be able find some female companionship there, not to mention companionship among men who are also friends of yours, men who will be far less tempted to see your wife as anything but a sister because you are there.
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EasterJoy
Guest
Yes–this. This is particularly true of male friends that you see often, rather than rarely. If some priest is your friend but you only see him for lunch twice a year that is different than having lunch with some guy on a schedule more in the twice a month or six times a year range.
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E_7
Guest
Yep!
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E_7
Guest
This doesn’t have to do whether you trust the spouse or not… It is to keep the spouse from any occasion of sin, the devil is a spiritual being WAY too smarter than us, and he knows our vulnerabilities and could take advantage of it and use others as his mere instruments for marriage destruction. I don’t want to be part of that game, so I rather take all the juices out of my husband and not seek some in other men, he is my partner in life, no one else.
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E_7
Guest
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E_7
Guest
I thought so too.
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jtauke
Guest
So you flat out don’t trust your husband? He did marry you, I’m assuming because he loves you more than anything else or anyone else.
I disagree entirely the bolded statement entirely. I may not be married yet, but I trust my fiance’ implicitly and vice versa. Even if she wanted to eat lunch with a friend who happened to be a guy.
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E_7
Guest
jtauke,
I would have said the same thing she said that you so much disagree on. In my case, however, my answer is that it is not my husband I don’t trust but the devil. Like I already said:
And I must add that as imperfect as we are, one can’t really be so sure of not cheating on the spouse even by thought! You can’t rely on yourself, but on God’s grace. If you are in a state of mortal sin for whatever reason, you are already an instrument of the devil. So better watch it.
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EasterJoy
Guest
I do not believe that it is inevitable that “someone is going to cross a line eventually.” There aren’t any relationships where gender makes no difference–even infants recognize gender differences and relate differently to the opposite sex than to their own sex–but there are people of the same sex as those who attract you who are never going to attract you sexually, nor vice versa. Some people’s place in the “Friend Zone” is entirely secure. (Most people know of situations where there were surprises, even in that arena, however!)
The OP is not talking about an isolated lunch with an opposite-sex friend. She is talking about* cultivating *friendships with married men, as if marriage removes the temptation to see one’s opposite-sex friends in a sexual way. Whether or not she is married, that is an incredibly naïve plan of action–and I say that as a woman with lots of brothers who has had more male friends than female friends in my lifetime! Before these discussions go a bit farther, she needs to realize the reality we all operate in. She may prefer the society of men, but there is a good reason to put boundaries on that, whether the men and women in question are married or not.
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LongingSoul
Guest
That’s always the way with the ‘gut feelings’. It’s usually takes retrospect to articulate them… But gut feelings are the coolest gift God has given us. I can trace pretty much every wrong turn in my life back to not following my gut feelings.
If you feel awkward and uncomfortable about this situation, you should just tell your wife straight up. Just tell her that you sense something wrong with it and it’s affecting how you regard her. It’s destructive to live with uncertainty about your spouse. Most times when you tell people something, they aren’t immediately going to change attitudes, but it’s there as a piece of information that can inform them about your relationship, in a future situation with a male friend. For instance, if someones harbouring a firm conviction about there being no problem with having close male friends, without your perspective, she might brush aside instances of light flirting on one occasion. With your previous (name removed by moderator)ut however, that may be the time that she questions her conviction that she can be married and also have a male friend.
So don’t make a big fight of your feelings. Just let her know about them and pray for Gods hand in your marriage.
S
Sunbreak
Guest
I think most couples would not feel comfortable with the spouse hanging out with members of the opposite sex. This is one of the things you give up when you get married. Lunch or coffee with a co-worker is fine. Get togethers where both of you are meeting with the person are fine. When it comes to hanging out, it gets more complicated. I can’t say that it’s absolutely wrong for someone to meet a past good friend of the opposite sex for an occasional lunch or coffee, but to get together to do fun things like go to the movies, go for a hike, or something else that would seem more like a date, those are not ok.
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xNoOnex
Guest
I think a lot of things depend on the people in question and the nature of the relationship.
I have a female friend whose one of my best friends. We met in high school and we’ve been close for half our lives. Over the years we’ve cried together, shared things with each other that no one else knows, and to this day we know that we can call each other at any hour of the day and talk if something is bothering the other person.
She’s married now, has been for a couple of years, but we haven’t stopped talking. I was going through a rough patch and she offered me a place to say. You could argue that we have an “intimate” relationship because of our emotional bond… But its platonic. Now, not every male/female relationship will be like our but still… If its possible for us, its possible for other people.
I have a female friend whose one of my best friends. We met in high school and we’ve been close for half our lives. Over the years we’ve cried together, shared things with each other that no one else knows, and to this day we know that we can call each other at any hour of the day and talk if something is bothering the other person.
She’s married now, has been for a couple of years, but we haven’t stopped talking. I was going through a rough patch and she offered me a place to say. You could argue that we have an “intimate” relationship because of our emotional bond… But its platonic. Now, not every male/female relationship will be like our but still… If its possible for us, its possible for other people.
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LongingSoul
Guest
Were you ever in a relationship or are you just not attracted to each other in that way?
C
Cathoholic
Guest
ChristRocket.
You said:
(But of course it IS “different”.)
God bless.
Cathoholic
You said:
Point out to your wife, if she really thinks it is “no different”, than just hanging out with a girlfriend, to . . . . just hang out with a girlfriend.
(But of course it IS “different”.)
God bless.
Cathoholic
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jtauke
Guest
If you’re saying the difference is one is a man and one is a woman. Than yes, obviously that is the case.
So many people in this thread seem to see human beings as insatiable lust filled monsters that would just as soon cheat on their spouse as they would take a breath.
In college I shared an apartment with 4 friends, 1 male and 3 female. Gotta say, they were all close friends, but I wasn’t ever attracted to any of them in a way that would make me pursue them, or allow them to pursue me.
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twf
Guest
The idea that ANY man is a temptation to ANY woman at ANY time and vice versa smacks of Jansenism to me…not orthodox Catholicism. We are not lust filled beasts with no self-control. Original sin tainted our natures to be sure, but utter depravity as taught by Luther is heresy.
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EasterJoy
Guest
OK, but that was “let’s find someone who can fog a mirror, who has a checkbook we can trust will have money in it at the first of the month, and who knows not to eat anything out of the refrigerator that he/she did not put in there,” not trying to fill out a gender-specific pre-arrangement. What about the female friend who says, “no, I don’t want any female roommates, only male roommates with steady girlfriends”? Would you not have found that a bit odd? Do you really expect that her boyfriend and her prospective roommates’ girlfriends are going to be wild about her proposal? I’m thinking not!
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