Wife has given up

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CrabbieMan said:
Tucdoc,
I just went on a Retrouvaille Weekend… Before the weekend, we were headed for divorce, but on the weekend, we decided to give the weekend another chance… Love and Marriage is a decision- you both have to decide what you want to do and then do it! Staying in misery just isn’t fair for either of you… God wants so so much more for you in your marriage!!! Sign up, and go on a Retrouvaille Weekend… You’ll be so glad you did.
We all have a stake in each other’s marriages- We will be praying for you!
Crabbie Man
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CrabbieMan,

I see that you are fairly new to this forum. I am happy that your Retrouvaille weekend helped strengthen your marriage. But I am not sure that you read all of tucdoc’s story. This marriage is way beyond that point now. It would be helpful to read this thread through in it’s entirety. May God bless you and guide you in your marriage. 🙂
 
Help! My wife says she is willing to consider marriage counseling now, now that I have requested a court date and have told her any request for more money has to go through our lawyers. I suspect she wants to reconcile so that she can maintain her lifestyle. So why should I even consider going to counseling with her?

But I’m so unhappy away from my family, alone in this apartment. I miss my wife, the one who cared about me. I don’t know if my wife now will really care about me, and if she does initially if she will stop in the future. I don’t want to go through this again. So, do I have to go through with this divorce, and say good-bye to any chance of keeping my family intact? I’ve asked her to go to marriage counseling for over a year, and NOW she wants to go. What do I do?
 
tudoc,

If you think there is a chance you can reconcile now that your wife is willing to go to counseling, then there is nothing wrong with putting the divorce on hold. You can always resume that. And maybe you won’t have to.

Talk to her and see where she is coming from, see if you think there is real change going on. You will know what you need to do.
 
newf said:
tudoc,

If you think there is a chance you can reconcile now that your wife is willing to go to counseling, then there is nothing wrong with putting the divorce on hold. You can always resume that. And maybe you won’t have to.

Talk to her and see where she is coming from, see if you think there is real change going on. You will know what you need to do.
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I agree with this. You have nothing to lose - you’ve already lost so much.

It’s possible she has hit bottom.

Be the strong faithful person you have become throughout this ordeal. Be sure to stand for all that is right and true. Is she willing to come to Mass on Sundays? Give up her friends and going out? What a great example to your kids about faithfulness and forgiveness.

God has refined you with fire. He’s not finished with you yet.

God bless you and keep on praying.
 
newf said:
tudoc,

If you think there is a chance you can reconcile now that your wife is willing to go to counseling, then there is nothing wrong with putting the divorce on hold. You can always resume that. And maybe you won’t have to.

Talk to her and see where she is coming from, see if you think there is real change going on. You will know what you need to do.
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I agree with this. If you go to counseling and there is a real change in her, not one that just means she maintains her lifestyle, then you may be glad things happened as they did. And if it does not work, you will know, as well as your children someday, (when they are truly old enough to comprehend) that you did everything possible to save your marriage.

May God bless you and guide you both.
 
Tucdoc,
Go to counseling, I think you will regret it down the road if you don’t give it a chance. It may be more than lifestyle, she may have come to the realization of how much more you give her than just lifestyle. She may have been dragging out the divorce and agreement because she wasn’t fully committed to it. Her friends may simply be that-- friends and not the emotional/spiritual supporters that you are. Could have taken all this for her to come to that understanding- you can’t know if you don’t try.

You have already owned up to your faults and contributions to the marriage decline, continue to do so. But keep in mind you can not change the past- neither can she. IF you are going to forward with her you both need to figure out how to bury that past permanently and build a better future. For you and your kids.

After a few counseling suggestions, I think you should suggest retrouvaille (sp?) and marriage encounter. My sister and her husband went to retrouvaille and it made a world of difference in their marriage.

God bless, as always, you are in my prayers.
 
The opinion of my family and friends is that it is too late for marriage counseling. They are all concerned about her going back to her old ways of overspending and seeing her “friends”. There has been so much disrespect and resentment from her that they, especially my parents, can’t believe I would even consider going to counseling with her. There is a Retroville weekend coming up here in town, and I had noted it on my schedule which I gave her last week. She has not mentioned being interested in going.

I don’t want to go through all this pain again. I’ve moved out, filed for divorce (on her insistence, even though I didn’t want to, because she was not going to) and we are waiting for a court date. I am trying to move on with my life and be the best parent I can. I also worry about the effect on the kids if I keep moving out and moving back to the house. I don’t want to expose them to any more conflict in the home. I don’t know why she choose to hold on to so much resentment, but she has not demonstrated a willingness to let it go, so I can’t see staying in the marriage.
 
Hi Tucdoc,

Well, something has gotten through. First, even if you don’t think there is a chance at reconciliation, please go, and go with an open mind. You will learn about yourself as well as her. In the end, it will be worth it.

I have not discussed it on this forum before, but my marriage has been less than stellar for many years, and in the past year I finally convinced my wife to go for counseling even though she resisted for a long time. She cried walking the hall to the doctors’ office for the first session. There were many times in the past year that I did not think we would make it, but now it is seeming more positive.

She doesn’t know yet that you are a changed man. She is hurt. From what you have said we generally think she is wrong but we don’t really know her, her situation, and/or how much your past issues may have hurt her - so while being supportive of you I will not judge her.

That said, yes, you go. You listen. You stick to your guns about the basics of what you want but you also seek where you can both grow together. This will get harder before it gets easier.

I would suggest that you say you will go, but that if you both go you will be very committed to it, no matter what happens and no matter what you learn about yourselves - that the number 1 priority IS and will remain your joint person, the marriage, and that you will expect a similar commitment from her. Put yourself on the line first, and let her know that you expect her to similarly do so.

One night going to our session I had a minor auto accident just blocks away. The responding police officer agreed to allow us to drive the couple of blocks to do the paperwork, and to call me on my cell phone when the paperwork was completed. My wife, who didn’t like the sessions, was offering to reschedule, but on some level I am certain that seeing this level of commitment to what I have described as the third person in our marriage - US - helped send a message of commitment. I have talked more than once that we need to be more committed to this entity and thinking of OUR MARRIAGE as a person separate from us.

Good luck to you Tucdoc. This is a first step on a long and difficult journey.
 
tucdoc said:
The opinion of my family and friends is that it is too late for marriage counseling. They are all concerned about her going back to her old ways of overspending and seeing her “friends”. There has been so much disrespect and resentment from her that they, especially my parents, can’t believe I would even consider going to counseling with her. There is a Retroville weekend coming up here in town, and I had noted it on my schedule which I gave her last week. She has not mentioned being interested in going.

I don’t want to go through all this pain again. I’ve moved out, filed for divorce (on her insistence, even though I didn’t want to, because she was not going to) and we are waiting for a court date. I am trying to move on with my life and be the best parent I can. I also worry about the effect on the kids if I keep moving out and moving back to the house. I don’t want to expose them to any more conflict in the home. I don’t know why she choose to hold on to so much resentment, but she has not demonstrated a willingness to let it go, so I can’t see staying in the marriage.
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Do not let the opinions of others dissuade you from following what is in your and your kids best interests.

I agree you shouldn’t move in and out but no one is saying to do that. What I am saying is to at least give counseling a chance, allow her to show whether she is truly sorry for what she has done to you and the kids. A counselor can help her understand all that. A while back in this thread I think I asked you to read the parable of the prodigal son. Our priest refers to this as showing the craziness of the christian love expected of us- to forgive others who’ve hurt us, even when they’re coming back because of adversity in their own lives.

I would recommend, and I think the counselor would recommend, that if you are going to try and salvage the marriage that you initiate a dating type relationship first. That is, spend some time doing fun things to re-establish the things that connected you in the first place. I would even say go to a ball game or two with her and try and understand what it is about baseball she loves so much. Heck, you two ever thought about joining a co-ed softball league? It can’t all be about reliving/rehashing the intensity and gloom of the past. You said you would want to have the woman you married, the wife you had back. Well, nothing ventured nothing gained. Faint heart never won fair lady. There is nothing gained in life without risk. But then, I’m a hopeless romantic and an optimist.

Only you can decide how much your heart can take. How much you’re willing to put yourself through. How your kids will handle their situation. But I have always tried to make major decisions by picturing what I will think when I’m 80 or 90. Will I regret not having made an attempt. I would urge you to find a quiet moment to contemplate what you will think of this moment in the future. Will you be content that you didn’t try.

God bless, as always you and yours are in my prayers.
 
styrgwillidar said:
Do not let the opinions of others dissuade you from following what is in your and your kids best interests.

I agree you shouldn’t move in and out but no one is saying to do that. What I am saying is to at least give counseling a chance, allow her to show whether she is truly sorry for what she has done to you and the kids. A counselor can help her understand all that. A while back in this thread I think I asked you to read the parable of the prodigal son. Our priest refers to this as showing the craziness of the christian love expected of us- to forgive others who’ve hurt us, even when they’re coming back because of adversity in their own lives.

I would recommend, and I think the counselor would recommend, that if you are going to try and salvage the marriage that you initiate a dating type relationship first. That is, spend some time doing fun things to re-establish the things that connected you in the first place. I would even say go to a ball game or two with her and try and understand what it is about baseball she loves so much. Heck, you two ever thought about joining a co-ed softball league? It can’t all be about reliving/rehashing the intensity and gloom of the past. You said you would want to have the woman you married, the wife you had back. Well, nothing ventured nothing gained. Faint heart never won fair lady. There is nothing gained in life without risk. But then, I’m a hopeless romantic and an optimist.

Only you can decide how much your heart can take. How much you’re willing to put yourself through. How your kids will handle their situation. But I have always tried to make major decisions by picturing what I will think when I’m 80 or 90. Will I regret not having made an attempt. I would urge you to find a quiet moment to contemplate what you will think of this moment in the future. Will you be content that you didn’t try.
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What wonderful advice from one who has been through this. 👍

Tucdoc, you yourself said you were miserable and lonely now. People do change. This is a wonderful opportunity to show your forgiveness.

God bless you.

(You may need to start a new thread if this one gets to 1,000 posts).
 
Tucdoc,

I agree with the others that you have a responsibility to at least try to reconcile. Have an initial talk - a joint session with a counselor or your therapist would probably be best. You probably harbor some degree of cynicism regarding her so ask the counselor to advise you afterward on how to proceed. Tips on selecting a counselor: one in a successful marriage who holds to Catholic teaching concerning marriage.

Given your wife’s track record, it is still advisable to set up a trust in your will to protect your children’s share.
 
Hey Tuc… just caught your news…

She just put the ball in your court!!! DO NOT listen to others. That she might do this again. She might. LET HER PROVE IT! There is NO ONE that knows for sure what she will do… Only her and God. In the same way she didn’t know for sure that YOU would do what you told her you would do… right???

Here you have been trying to show her you’re a changed man… Does it occur to you that she was counceled the same way you are being counceled now???

When the two of you get others out of your bed (and I don’t mean to insinuate that anyone is sleeping with another)… You can do your best to function as a couple… When you allow the opinions of others dictate how you will communicate with your spouse… YOU LOSE… The end… Oh, and so do your kids.

You wanted retrouvaille in the past… set it up… CALL HER BLUFF! Make her do the hard stuff!!!

Do not move back in. That would be cruel to all involved… But go to the counceling. Go on dates. See if you can put it back together again. Don’t expect this to be fixed in 2 weeks… Put in some work. Figure out where you to failed at your communication in the past… and work on that. I personally think you shouldn’t cloud these decisions with sex either… Just gonna put that out there…

If you don’t even TRY, I would say you’ve been FULL OF IT this whole time. Big WHOOP you’ve been hurt. You KNOW she has been too. You BOTH have lots of healing to do.
You are NOW getting what you claimed you wanted…

Set your ego aside. I’d say she set hers aside to ask you to try. That had to have been hard after all the rejection she offered. But if you don’t even try, then in the end, it’s NOW ON YOU… you will have to say… she finally came around, and I was too big a wimp to try. I was more worried about a wounded heart than I was my FAMILY…

And then and ONLY then, if you both fail at it… then you move on to the divorce. You DO STILL HAVE SOMETHING TO LOSE… YOUR MARRIAGE… It ain’t over 'till that very last document is signed…
 
faithfully said:
Hey Tuc… just caught your news…

She just put the ball in your court!!! DO NOT listen to others. That she might do this again. She might. LET HER PROVE IT! There is NO ONE that knows for sure what she will do… Only her and God. In the same way she didn’t know for sure that YOU would do what you told her you would do… right???

Here you have been trying to show her you’re a changed man… Does it occur to you that she was counceled the same way you are being counceled now???

When the two of you get others out of your bed (and I don’t mean to insinuate that anyone is sleeping with another)… You can do your best to function as a couple… When you allow the opinions of others dictate how you will communicate with your spouse… YOU LOSE… The end… Oh, and so do your kids.

You wanted retrouvaille in the past… set it up… CALL HER BLUFF! Make her do the hard stuff!!!

Do not move back in. That would be cruel to all involved… But go to the counceling. Go on dates. See if you can put it back together again. Don’t expect this to be fixed in 2 weeks… Put in some work. Figure out where you to failed at your communication in the past… and work on that. I personally think you shouldn’t cloud these decisions with sex either… Just gonna put that out there…

If you don’t even TRY, I would say you’ve been FULL OF IT this whole time. Big WHOOP you’ve been hurt. You KNOW she has been too. You BOTH have lots of healing to do.
You are NOW getting what you claimed you wanted…

Set your ego aside. I’d say she set hers aside to ask you to try. That had to have been hard after all the rejection she offered. But if you don’t even try, then in the end, it’s NOW ON YOU… you will have to say… she finally came around, and I was too big a wimp to try. I was more worried about a wounded heart than I was my FAMILY…

And then and ONLY then, if you both fail at it… then you move on to the divorce. You DO STILL HAVE SOMETHING TO LOSE… YOUR MARRIAGE… It ain’t over 'till that very last document is signed…
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:amen: :aok:
 
tucdoc said:
Help! My wife says she is willing to consider marriage counseling now, now that I have requested a court date and have told her any request for more money has to go through our lawyers. I suspect she wants to reconcile so that she can maintain her lifestyle. So why should I even consider going to counseling with her?

But I’m so unhappy away from my family, alone in this apartment. I miss my wife, the one who cared about me. I don’t know if my wife now will really care about me, and if she does initially if she will stop in the future. I don’t want to go through this again. So, do I have to go through with this divorce, and say good-bye to any chance of keeping my family intact? I’ve asked her to go to marriage counseling for over a year, and NOW she wants to go. What do I do?
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You tell her that you need some time to think that over. Then you get some competent help, and you do that.

I would be concerned that this is an attempt to manipulate you or to gain a material advantage. If she uses the counselling towards her own ends, that could be emotionally devastating to you, so you do have “something to lose.” The children do, too. Having said that, you seem to be a fellow who is willing to gamble a bit to eliminate the big “what if’s” from his life. Wanting to be able to look in the mirror and to know to your own satisfaction that “I did what I could” seems a high priority to you. That’s not a bad thing, and what you pay to get there may be well worth it, no matter what happens.

Have you talked with your pastor about this? Your own therapist? Your attorney? I think you’d profit from some experienced counsel, and from more than one source, because this is a very big question, and not a simple “yes” or “no” question. It is probably one for which your answer will not be a simple one, but rather a thought-out counter-offer. You need to know exactly what the parameters of your decision are, where the minefields are, and so on. You’ll also need support in your decision, after all, no matter what you do.
 
I’ve spoken to my attorney and I e-mailed my wife back that I am willing to discuss any issues she feels have affected our marriage as long as she is willing to do the same. This will probably be too much for her pride to overcome. being vulnerable to criticism of her actions. Nonetheless, she needs to be held accountable for being disrespectful and irresponsible. My attorney said she would rather deflect the blame to me rather that admit her part in all of this. My (Catholic) therapist feels the same way and does not think she is capable of true reconciliation. My attorney did say that marriage counseling could be turned into divorce counseling, and that agreements we make relating to the kids could be more enforceable if we make them in front of a third person (the counselor), using them as a proxy.
 
tucdoc said:
I’ve spoken to my attorney and I e-mailed my wife back that I am willing to discuss any issues she feels have affected our marriage as long as she is willing to do the same. This will probably be too much for her pride to overcome. being vulnerable to criticism of her actions. Nonetheless, she needs to be held accountable for being disrespectful and irresponsible. My attorney said she would rather deflect the blame to me rather that admit her part in all of this. My (Catholic) therapist feels the same way and does not think she is capable of true reconciliation. My attorney did say that marriage counseling could be turned into divorce counseling, and that agreements we make relating to the kids could be more enforceable if we make them in front of a third person (the counselor), using them as a proxy.
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The problem with this is your therapist and your attorney are there to hear your side of the story. Once you two go to therapy together, they will have a more balanced picture.

The therapist will be able to determine the sincerity of both of you.

Good luck and prayers.
 
qui_est_ce said:
The problem with this is your therapist and your attorney are there to hear your side of the story. Once you two go to therapy together, they will have a more balanced picture.

The therapist will be able to determine the sincerity of both of you.

Good luck and prayers.
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The attorney has met the wife and had some substantial first-hand dealings with her, not to mention many many couples who have gone before these two. I don’t think he’s at all naive about these things.

I’m not so sure that there is going to be progress in the area of “she needs to be held accountable for being disrespectful and irresponsible”. If that is the goal, be realistic about how likely it is that your wife has approached you for counselling with that end remotely in her mind. I think you will have better luck if you stick to what kind of mutual expectations you’re going to have in the future, without dragging the past into it. Getting her to accept your expectations concerning what is needed from each of you today and tomorrow could well be a necessary scaffolding for anything like a fruitful re-visitation of yesterday.
 
What about you being held responsible for being disrespectful for years? Is that your goal as well? And “I’m sorry, get over it” isn’t being held responsible.
 
All of last year I apologized for insulting her, for making her feel used sexually, and for generally not appreciating her. She says I haven’t been nice to her, which is true in that I would confront her overspending. I’ve told her how I felt disrespected when she would spend regardless of what I would say, not to mention the disrespect of her discussing her “friends” with our children. Just a few days ago I told her that she is not the only victim, she is not the only one who has been hurt in all of this. She didn’t want to here that. We could have gone to Retroville this weekend, but I had told her she would have to be willing to participate by listening and sharing. All she wants to do is complain and deflect any blame from her to me. I’ve done what I can to earn her trust. I’m ready to move on.
 
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