Wife has given up

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tucdoc said:
I disagree with the certainty of Faithfully’s comment that past performance predicts future performance. This does not allow room for improvement and the possibility of change if one is motivated to do so. It is especially difficult when the past is remembered differently and selectively. With this fatalistic approach there is no hope.
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Hey Tuc… there IS NOT certainty that past performance prediuts future performance. But when you have nothing else to go by… then what do you use to analyse a situation?

So for example, if you decide your teen is old enough to stay home alone on the weekend while you leave town, they then throw a party, and trash the place… What are you likely to do NEXT TIME you have to leave??? Will you allow them your trust the very next weekend?

Would there be a way for your child/teen to re-earn your trust? Or would you say forget it.

That’s all I’m getting to. You, right now, don’t think she’s able to handle $$$, and she thinks you’re going to be a jerk… You at least say you will try… she on the other hand has not made it clear if she will try to improve with the $$ (through your words anyway)… but she did say she’d go to counceling, when in the past she stamped her feet no.

Basically, I meant if I were trying to look from her perspective, it doesn’t sound like she has much of a happy history, whether fabricated or not, to refer to and KNOW that you will be a better husband so she can be a better wife. In the same way, right now, you don’t believe that she’s really into this therapy thing for anything other than $$? You seem rather “certain”

Ok… so how come you both missed the therapy last weekend? Was this actually scheduled then dropped? What happened? Did she change her mind. Rest assured, I don’t think you should be treated like a yo-yo…

And personally, I would still stay living outside the home until, should the day come, you are both excited about the prospect of living well with each other… but really that’s for a therapist to work on with you two…
 
Tuc, I think there are two important questions you need to ask yourself.
  1. Do you think your wife would be able to modify her spending habits to an extent that would make you comfortable? I’m focusing just on that issue because that seems to be the 900 lb. gorilla. You’ve known her for something like 15 plus years. In your opinion, has her spending habits gotten better, worse or stayed the same over the years? Has she ever been able to make improvements? As I’m sure you know spending, like other habits, is tough to curtail when we live in a country that 1) values consumerism and 2) promotes expanding your lifestyle to fit your paycheck.
  2. If your wife couldn’t curtail her spending right away but was making a good faith effort, could you live with that?
Personally, I think one thing that both you and your wife should be thankful for is your job stability. I wish we were in the same boat–my husband’s awaiting the results of yet another layoff announcement (the sixth one he’s endured) while I’m home raising a kid on the autism spectrum. I point this out not to drum up sympathy (we trust that God knows
and does what’s best) but to offer perspective. Your life still has some pretty awesome things going for it–large earning potential and two kids who will, in all likelihood, live fully independent lives. When you’re down, focus on those positives. Good luck and prayers to you.
 
90 Domer, you’re right. Many of the people at work keep reminding me that at least I do have my profession, something my wife can’t take away from me. She may turn the kids against me (I am really worried about parent alienation with their attitude towards me), but at least I can still support them and my wife, even if it’s not to the extent she wants.

When I did pick them up last night, I spoke to her briefly. She told me how upset I make her, how much at peace she is without me. I again offered to go to counseling with her, just for the sake of getting along since we have kids we are raising. I asked about Sunday nights, and she slammed the door in my face. Not too promising. The kids see how upset mom gets. I still won’t give in to all her demands and will continue to give her a reasonable, generous offer, but not what she wants. The kids also need to learn that you can’t always get your way by yelling and pouting.

Faithfully, earning trust is what this is all about. I don’t know if I can trust my wife will change, but I am willing to take a chance. She, on the other hand, has such high misgivings, saying “I don’t want to get hurt again”, that it doesn’t seem she is willing to take that chance.
 
tucdoc said:
90 Domer, you’re right. Many of the people at work keep reminding me that at least I do have my profession, something my wife can’t take away from me. She may turn the kids against me (I am really worried about parent alienation with their attitude towards me), but at least I can still support them and my wife, even if it’s not to the extent she wants.

When I did pick them up last night, I spoke to her briefly. She told me how upset I make her, how much at peace she is without me. I again offered to go to counseling with her, just for the sake of getting along since we have kids we are raising. I asked about Sunday nights, and she slammed the door in my face. Not too promising. The kids see how upset mom gets. I still won’t give in to all her demands and will continue to give her a reasonable, generous offer, but not what she wants. The kids also need to learn that you can’t always get your way by yelling and pouting.

Faithfully, earning trust is what this is all about. I don’t know if I can trust my wife will change, but I am willing to take a chance. She, on the other hand, has such high misgivings, saying “I don’t want to get hurt again”, that it doesn’t seem she is willing to take that chance.
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Re: the kids. This is very hard I’m sure. I’ve witnessed this in nearly every divorce I’ve witnessed. USUALLY, the kids mature enough to realize they don’t KNOW all the details, and that blame isn’t as easily issued as they thought. I’m sure this will be even harder as they are about to start school right now. Their schedules are going to be tight… plus I’m sure yours is too… You are likely now going to learn how to squeak more time out of your schedule for your kids…

You mention that you offered to go to counceling again. Has she taken back her offer of going? How did her offer get withdrawn???

Yes, trust is very hard to earn back. Regardless the situation. It could take years. It could never happen. You just don’t know. I don’t know anyone that actually “wants to hurt again”.

But I also know that risk takers are the only people that win in the end. Those that function in the safety zone usually go no where fast…

I’ve actually heard that sort of statement… the “how at peace without you.” Sadly, you are tied, fairly or not, to her misery. For the time being. It’s hard to say how she invisions that pain and misery going away. For some it’s just a matter of moving on, for others there someday comes the realization that the misery comes from within, and they learn they blamed an innocent person. May never admit that either.

In the end, I’m hoping you two can work through this. I’m confident you will get by regardless.
 
i have been in this situation and found it is so easy to get wrapped up in our pain we can overlook the pain our children are in. Children immediately blame themselves and need to be reminded many times how awesome they are and that it is not their fault.
Please safe yourself more pain by reminding them as many times as it takes until they believe you. God Bless you and I wish you and the children peace
 
I dropped the kids off last night with their mom. She hadn’t packed any of their stuff for school, and both of them wanted to get back to the house. There is a lot of tension due to the conflict between my wife and I. I didn’t insist on them spending the night last night. Instead, I asked my wife to consider divorce counseling (I didn’t know it existed until a colleague who just divorced referred me to somebody) so that we can minimize the conflict and start healing. I asked her to please consider this for the children’s sake. Their counselor can only do so much for them if they keep feeding off my wife’s negative energy. I can only do so much for them. My son especially doesn’t like me talking to my wife as he feels I always upset her. I paraphrased Winston Churchill, saying it is better to talk than to fight.

I cannot see reconciling if she is not interested in any form of counseling. She has much introspection to do and is either unwilling or unable to do it. I will let my attorney do her job during the settlement conference on Thursday. My wife wants the house and lifestyle she had without me being there. The kids will be affected if mom doesn’t get her way. Nonetheless, I will stick to what I feel is true and fair, trusting it will work out best for all (even my wife and kids) in the end. A friend was advised by an attorney “don’t let possessions possess you”. It may be too late for my wife, but I hope my kids can learn this lesson.
 
tucdoc said:
I dropped the kids off last night with their mom. She hadn’t packed any of their stuff for school, and both of them wanted to get back to the house. There is a lot of tension due to the conflict between my wife and I. I didn’t insist on them spending the night last night. Instead, I asked my wife to consider divorce counseling (I didn’t know it existed until a colleague who just divorced referred me to somebody) so that we can minimize the conflict and start healing. I asked her to please consider this for the children’s sake. Their counselor can only do so much for them if they keep feeding off my wife’s negative energy. I can only do so much for them. My son especially doesn’t like me talking to my wife as he feels I always upset her. I paraphrased Winston Churchill, saying it is better to talk than to fight.

I cannot see reconciling if she is not interested in any form of counseling. She has much introspection to do and is either unwilling or unable to do it. I will let my attorney do her job during the settlement conference on Thursday. My wife wants the house and lifestyle she had without me being there. The kids will be affected if mom doesn’t get her way. Nonetheless, I will stick to what I feel is true and fair, trusting it will work out best for all (even my wife and kids) in the end. A friend was advised by an attorney “don’t let possessions possess you”. It may be too late for my wife, but I hope my kids can learn this lesson.
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Talk to your counsellor and that of the children, but it is probably best to schedule communications with your wife for a time when your children aren’t there or under circumstances where they can’t overhear. In this day of texting and Skype, there is no reason that can’t be managed. Don’t meet her in person alone, though. You ought to always have witnesses.

Hell hath no fury, friend. A person with enough anger stirred up will cut off her nose to spite her face. I mean nothing against your wife in particular; that is just human nature…and I don’t just mean women who feel their cause is scorned. I mean anybody. When the anger level gets to a certain level and length of time, be aware that rationality, integrity, and common sense can go out of the window at any time. If she has no opportunity, she won’t have the humiliation of losing it to look back on, either, and that is a good thing.
 
Sorry to hear about all of your heartaches.

My prayers are with you and your family.
 
Sorry to hear about this. I know the pain myself–now in a similar situation.

Sorry I haven’t read the entire thread, but is it possible your wife is suffering from a personality disorder? There are resources available (online, books, therapists) that may give a different perspective on her behavior, and how you can respond to it in ways that help defuse the conflict. Not trying to “label” you or her or make anyone “wrong”, but her emotional state and thinking may be connected in ways that aren’t so obvious. I only started to see these connections in my situation after 20+ yrs of marriage.

If you’re not seeing a counselor yourself, strongly suggest it. And discuss possibility with them if you haven’t already. Even if divorce is unavoidable, it might help with the new relationship between you, and help you heal.

Best wishes–praying for you.
 
I’ve often wondered whether my wife has a personality disorder: narcissistic (it’s all about her), borderline (it’s always someone else’s fault), or a mix of both since she shows traits of both.

We have a settlement conference today. She wants me to loan her money to buy me out of the house, about 6 months salary’s worth. I have a strong sense she will default on this loan in the future, and claim that it is easier for me to make that much money than for her. She will use the kids, insisting they are better off staying in that house, which will continue to stretch her budget, and for which she will ask for more alimony. What is fair? I have a duty to myself and well as to my family. I want to be able to provide for my children, even if they are angry and resentful towards me now, since I am the “bad guy”, upsetting mom each time I talk to her. It’s so unfair. I’ve lost my wife, home and am losing my children. I’ve been advised to take care of myself, and that I can only control myself. I’m not looking forward to this meeting, but I want this all to be over, so I can go on with my life.
 
Why don’t you just give her the house? It will be better for your kids and it will go a long way to establish some kind of peace with your wife. I don’t think you should loan her anything, she probably won’t pay it back and that will be cause for more tension.

This isn’t about what is fair… nothing is fair about divorce. It’s more about doing the best you can with what you have. You have a good career. You will be able to earn back whatever you give away right now.

Taking care of yourself is important to a point, but you do need to provide for your children, too. And that means you will be entangled with their mother. As long as your children are minors, you will not really have her out of your life. You need to figure how to manage that rather than trying to ‘get on with your life’.

My heart goes out to you as this really is a difficult situation. Hang in there and I hope your meeting today goes well.
 
tucdoc said:
I’ve often wondered whether my wife has a personality disorder: narcissistic (it’s all about her), borderline (it’s always someone else’s fault), or a mix of both since she shows traits of both.

We have a settlement conference today. She wants me to loan her money to buy me out of the house, about 6 months salary’s worth. I have a strong sense she will default on this loan in the future, and claim that it is easier for me to make that much money than for her. She will use the kids, insisting they are better off staying in that house, which will continue to stretch her budget, and for which she will ask for more alimony. What is fair? I have a duty to myself and well as to my family. I want to be able to provide for my children, even if they are angry and resentful towards me now, since I am the “bad guy”, upsetting mom each time I talk to her. It’s so unfair. I’ve lost my wife, home and am losing my children. I’ve been advised to take care of myself, and that I can only control myself. I’m not looking forward to this meeting, but I want this all to be over, so I can go on with my life.
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You know she won’t be able to maintain the house even if you give it to her. You have a duty to be fiscally responsible. I kind of like newf’s response of giving her the house, but I’m positive that it will cause more stress for everyone involved since you KNOW she won’t be able to maintain it and will continue to request extra money to maintain the house for the “sake of the kids.” She should not be putting the kids in the middle of this.

If she really cared about the kids, she would have stopped seeing her men friends and worked harder at the marriage by going to counseling and Retrouvaille. She has done none of this, yet expects YOUR money will solve the problem.

As for your being the “bad guy.” This is something you will have to accept patiently and kindly. Whenever your kids say something like you’re being mean or unfair, just tell them, “I’m your dad and nobody will ever love you more than I.” Play broken record.

Believe me, it works. I was the bad guy in our divorce. Every time I would discipline the kids, they would call their dad. Then they would put me on the phone and he’d chew me out for disciplining them. I sould remain calm and explain the situation. He’ say, “Oh, they didn’t tell me THAT part of the story. [duh], but I told them they could [insert disciplinary action to be lifted].” My answer to the kids would be “You didn’t tell Dad the whole truth, but because he said so, I’ll let it go this time.” They knew I was trying to cooperate.

Getting divorced was really hard on me because I had been a stay at home mom. It broke my heart to put them in aftercare. Getting a job to support us was difficult after being out of the workforce for 12 years. I had some pretty cr*ppy jobs. It was awful. We lived in my sister’s attic for 1.5 years before buying a modest home. The home repairs and utilities were really stressful. But I had the best next door neighbors. They were nosy retired folks who watched our house. They would tell me everything that was going on. My kids knew it too, and had to behave!!

Their dad would come regularly (lived halfway across the country). And have fun with them. I even let him stay at my house because as they became teens, they didn’t want to stay in a hotel. They wanted to be with their friends, and this was a good way to let him be involved in their lives.

Well, he married again (for the third time) about 3 years ago. He hadn’t told #2 that he was staying with me when he visited the kids. She was so mad she divorced him. He didn’t tell them he was getting married. New wife won’t let him visit without her or stay with me. She wanted to come to my daughter’s HS graduation. She wouldn’t let Dad attend w/o her, so Dad didn’t come. This hurt them so much.

They are now 20 and 23 and have realized what a jerk he’s been all along. They apologized for being so brats. I told them, “I love you more than anybody in the whole wide world. Nothing you do can take that love away.” My daughter comes home from school whenever she has time off. My son lives at home and pays rent. He helps me out a great deal. There is usually dinner in the fridge when I get home from work (he loves to cook). Yea, he flunked out of college two times. He’s too smart for that, but I love him anyway, and he has a great job is finally happy. He was always trying to please his dad, but couldn’t. He used to walk around with his head hung low. Now is is whistling and smiling and happy again, just like he used to be when he was a little boy. :yup:

I am so proud of my kids. I am so happy they are in my life. I LOVE having dinner together or taking them out to dinner. My daughter always wants to go to lunch when she is here.

I was all worth it. I’m still poor, struggling with the bills, but I love my life and my family. I would do it all over again if I had to. :harp::heaven:

It’s very difficult now, but you’ll see. But your trust in God. It will work out, and in a few years you will proudly look at your kids and say, “It was worth every bit of heartbreak.”❤️

Please let us know what he/she comes up with. You know your wife won’t be happy with the outcome, but she will be seen as unreasonable.

I know it’s hurtful to you right now. After I left my husband (he was abusive) I was sorry and wanted to go back! I was homesick for him and our former life!!!

I know things will go well with you today. Your mediator will be fair and reasonable.

Peace, love, and prayers to you.
 
tucdoc said:
I’ve often wondered whether my wife has a personality disorder: narcissistic (it’s all about her), borderline (it’s always someone else’s fault), or a mix of both since she shows traits of both.

We have a settlement conference today. She wants me to loan her money to buy me out of the house, about 6 months salary’s worth. …
I’m not looking forward to this meeting, but I want this all to be over, so I can go on with my life.
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Sorry you’re going through this. I’m in a similar situation with my wife, but hasn’t progressed that far (yet).

Strongly suggest that you look into materials on understanding and dealing with these PD’s. There’s kind of a stigma attached to the names, but the point isn’t to label anyone–I’ve gotten a lot of insight into why she behaves the way she does, and some skills for dealing with her that leave the whole family feeling better. Think it’s a good thing for us whether the marriage makes it or not.

Suggest reading “Stop Walking on Eggshells”, or “The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder”. Or see bpdfamily.com. It was a lot to process, but I felt better than I had in years after reading.

Best wishes–good luck at the settlement. Praying for you.
 
Tuc, I was saddened to read that your latest post. For some reason, though, I wasn’t shocked. I’m not trying to be rude by asking this, but were surprised at what she asked for? Sadly, at this point it seems like you can turn over your whole paycheck to her and it still wouldn’t be enough.

As tough as it may be, I agree that the less you say directly to your wife, the better (unless it’s about your kids). If your kids bring up your wife, hopefully you’ll steer them off that topic ASAP. And I do think that your wife will not turn your kids against you in the long run. Truth will prevail. It’s terribly unfortunate that you have to endure this now.

Prayers that your meeting goes smoothly today.
 
nonanon said:
Sorry you’re going through this. I’m in a similar situation with my wife, but hasn’t progressed that far (yet).

Strongly suggest that you look into materials on understanding and dealing with these PD’s. There’s kind of a stigma attached to the names, but the point isn’t to label anyone–I’ve gotten a lot of insight into why she behaves the way she does, and some skills for dealing with her that leave the whole family feeling better. Think it’s a good thing for us whether the marriage makes it or not.

Suggest reading “Stop Walking on Eggshells”, or “The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder”. Or see bpdfamily.com. It was a lot to process, but I felt better than I had in years after reading.

Best wishes–good luck at the settlement. Praying for you.
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Interesting your mentioning this book…I am rereading it for courage to remain strong after experiencing, once again, the ugliness of BPD. I know that pain.
 
Thank you all for being so supportive.

Well, she’s agreed to sell the house. I know this was a very painful decision for her. Back in May she asked me to come to the house, and she was crying because her lawyer had advised her to do just that. It will be a huge undertaking for her, and very disruptive for the kids. In the long run, it is the right thing to do. Still, I feel so bad for her, and I know the kids are going to be even more resentful of me.

I’m back to hating my life. There is so much pain in my family. I spoke to a dear aunt and uncle, and they’ve tried to convince me that all of this is her doing and isn’t my fault. So why do I feel some responsibility? Because I couldn’t talk her into going into counseling? Because I didn’t meet all of her emotional needs? Because if I hadn’t insulted her and asked her why she wasn’t happy back in March of last year none of this would be happening? I used to tell her that she has free will and she can choose to make the marriage work. I guess she chose otherwise.
 
You feel some responsibility because it IS partially your fault. You created the bad situation by treating her poorly for years. Yes, she should have spoken up much sooner, but that is hard. You betrayed her trust in you to treat her as a wife. Then when she finally spoke up, you took 6 mo to improve your behavior, gave her 6mo to trust you again and change, and when that didn’t happen you gave up. You have continued to treat her as a child and giver her orders. You offered counseling (which was listen to me and this other person tell you all the ways you screwed up) and when she offered to go you refused.

In her mind, she didn’t choose not to make the marriage work, she choose not to go back to a man who betrayed her, didn’t support her emotionally, doesn’t respect her, and (probably in her mind) doesn’t love her. Would you go back to that? No, because you are choosing not to right now.

She is not the only one responsible. The fact you believe your aunts points to the fact you are not taking responsibility for your all faults nor fixing them. She may be blaming you, but you are blaming her.
 
Tuc, try not to beat yourself up about the past…there’s nothing you can do to change it. And it’s only good to remember past events if they allow you to be a better person in the future.

In a marriage, I think it’s a series of many little incidents that cause a failure. And those many little events include contributions from you and your wife. I am not saying that your wife didn’t contribute more of the incidents. However, the saying “Hindsight is 20/20” sure applies here.

I always thought it was naive of your wife to think that there would be minimal changes on her part if she chose to divorce. However, you have offered to reconcile, so she’s in charge of her own fate. I don’t think that reality completely set in yet. I am still praying for her to see the light.

I will offer up my prayers today for the hope that your wife will have a change of heart. Perhaps you can offer your suffering for those families who are enduring severe financial hardship or women/children who are in abusive relationships. Hopefully, that will allow you to hate your life a little less.
 
i doubt that your wife has a personality disorder. i’m sure she is just very tired of the things that have gone on in your marriage for a long time. i hope that your family can find healing and not go through a divorce.
 
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