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RoseRed2
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Praying!
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tucdoc
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An example is a Tiffany bracelet she’s wanted for sometime that’s about $400. Even yesterday she was asking why I never got if for her, as if giving her that gift would prove I love her. So, being faithful to my marriage (even after all the c*** she’s done), helping out around the house, being with the kids as much as I can, and even helping her family out with loans (yes, loans, not gifts) does not say I love you? Yes, I am cognizant of the costs of items, but I know caring for a home is work, so I’m O.K. with her taking the kids out to eat rather than make them food at home regularly, or her hiring people to clean the house (since it is a rather large house). I do admire those who work outside the home and still care for their home, which is not the case with my wife. In the past I’ve told my wife “it’s never enough, is it”. I’ve admitted to her that I should not have let the resentment build up to that point. Nevertheless, she’s seen how I’ve reacted over the years to credit card bills that are more that many people make in a month (gross). So, I’ve been an enabler in the sense that I’ve not insisted on sticking to a budget, because she’s refused to have one, and I’m accused enough of being controlling. That’s probably why I’ve not bought the Tiffany bracelet.
So, I buy her a suite at a ballgame for her birthday, she invites her “friend” so our other friends/family see how she dotes over him, and she doesn’t even say “thank you”. One of her friends has sent her texts asking her about wha’ts going on. Now my wife is furious and is threatening to pull our son out of the Catholic school if the friends son asks him anything about us. This women helped me out tremendously when my wife was gone taking care of her mom’s affairs after her death 6 years ago. Now, my wife has cut her off completely. This is how my wife works. If you cross her, she want nothing to do with you. She did that to our priest, the principal at our Catholic school, her sister (who was also at the suite, who I’ve also spoken to, and who’s opinion my wife disregards), and now to me. She is unforgiving.
So, I buy her a suite at a ballgame for her birthday, she invites her “friend” so our other friends/family see how she dotes over him, and she doesn’t even say “thank you”. One of her friends has sent her texts asking her about wha’ts going on. Now my wife is furious and is threatening to pull our son out of the Catholic school if the friends son asks him anything about us. This women helped me out tremendously when my wife was gone taking care of her mom’s affairs after her death 6 years ago. Now, my wife has cut her off completely. This is how my wife works. If you cross her, she want nothing to do with you. She did that to our priest, the principal at our Catholic school, her sister (who was also at the suite, who I’ve also spoken to, and who’s opinion my wife disregards), and now to me. She is unforgiving.
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angelerulastiel
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You told her through actions that money=love (you loved your wife and showed it by giving her a life of leisure) so why is it crazy for her to think that if you refuse to spend money on her that you don’t love her.
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tucdoc
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Ouch! It looks like I’ve done this to myself. She told me on our first date that she didn’t want to work anymore. I had no problem with a “traditionalist” and understood I would have to support her. But now I suspect that if she had worked, she would have other things to think about and not obsses so about our relationship, whether it’s going well or terribly. She would also have her own money to buy her d*** bracelet. There is still stuff to do with the kids, but they aren’t pre-schoolers anymore, and as they become teenagers she may have even less to do. So, maybe thinking too much is a bad thing? 
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iamrefreshed
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No.God did not design us in this way. Do you understand marriage?
We are not our own people as you state. We become one flesh.
Please don’t mis-lead this man.
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faithfully
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Are you suggesting that women cease to have free will? Or that Married people cease to have free will when they are married? If so, please point me to this. As it would serve my education. I am under the impression that as a married person, I have a new/different set of rules than say a single person. Like, I may now engage in sex with the man I’m married to. Etc. And ONLY with him… That we are to act as one! My Free Will is fully in tact.
You don’t have to be insulting. Acting that way does not serve the Lord in any fashion. I’m not the one near divorce here. You are right. We are to “become one flesh”… However, we do actually have 2 seperate bodies, with seperate brains. And they both function. And they both have to make decisions. Her brain does not cease to function. Nor does her free will. Is she supposed to act in a certain way? Yes, but she still has the choice to do so. And if she doesn’t… well… it breaks his heart, and she has to answer to God…NO? There will be consequences. No? I mean, if you have NO CHOICE, then how could you possibly be held responsible for anything you do?
Perhaps I’m too new age, but my husband does not control me. We work as a unit. We make decisions together. I don’t act like a child waiting for him to decide when I can go grocery shopping, or who my friends can be. My husband needs to be able to go to his $$ job and know that I can hold down the fort. Because I do. Not that he has to micro manage my every move. But then, I happen to be a pretty together person, and it does not occur to me that it would ever be appropriate to invite men into my life that are not mutual friends with my husband. Or to supply me with something my husband doesn’t. I also happen to be degreed in finance, so I have a pretty good brain for numbers, and know how to balance my checkbook and stick to a budget (ummm, a little better than DH) Furthermore, I would have been totally turned off my a MAN that wants to act like my father. Blech! But then, that’s us… and how we function.
Hope that helps with regard to MY thought process… And seriously, I think EASTERJOY has said it best in many other threads… TucDoc, your problems are probably above all of our pay scales… You can bounce ideas off of us, and listen to our questions, and how we read just the FEW things that you put out there… But you do really need the guidance of a good priest & marriage counselor. 'Cause, I suspect that your wife is not, in fact brain dead, and she’s making decisions all by her self right now… that obviously are NOT inline with a Catholic marriage. She is in fact, exercising her free will… and needs our prayers as much as your marriage and you do…
Best…
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faithfully
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Tuc… OMG!!! Seriously??? If she was busy with work she wouldn’t notice if you had a good relationship or not? Is that 'cause you didn’t notice??? And so, it’s clear… All the money is yours! Hmmmm… Perhaps she should invoice you for child care, the house cleaning she does do, all the errands…Ouch! It looks like I’ve done this to myself. She told me on our first date that she didn’t want to work anymore. I had no problem with a “traditionalist” and understood I would have to support her. But now I suspect that if she had worked, she would have other things to think about and not obsses so about our relationship, whether it’s going well or terribly. She would also have her own money to buy her d*** bracelet. There is still stuff to do with the kids, but they aren’t pre-schoolers anymore, and as they become teenagers she may have even less to do. So, maybe thinking too much is a bad thing?
Who’s thinking too much??? You or her?
I’m not sure being a “traditionalist” gets one a blank check.
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EasterJoy
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No, I don’t think so. First off, if I wanted a bracelet from my husband, it would be beyond hollow to buy one for myself. (I don’t happen to have gifts as a love language, but some do.) Second, and more importantly, not having a job that requires a regular schedule and produces a wage does not mean an adult needs to contribute nothing and has nothing to do. (Why do you think the Junior League was invented?Ouch! It looks like I’ve done this to myself. She told me on our first date that she didn’t want to work anymore. I had no problem with a “traditionalist” and understood I would have to support her. But now I suspect that if she had worked, she would have other things to think about and not obsses so about our relationship, whether it’s going well or terribly. She would also have her own money to buy her d*** bracelet. There is still stuff to do with the kids, but they aren’t pre-schoolers anymore, and as they become teenagers she may have even less to do. So, maybe thinking too much is a bad thing?
) Having a role that doesn’t have a wage and title attached can be very difficult, but jobs have their own seductions and create their own interior confusions.Let’s face it: a lot of us, male and female, would rather not work for a wage any more. That doesn’t mean that if we get into a marriage with a breadwinner spouse that our choice to indolence and self-indulgence is the fault of our working spouse.
Neither does having a job cure a person of a tendency to be discontented. Rather, I think she wasn’t contented with her life before she married you, and marriage didn’t change that in the end. Or, to be fair, maybe she is in-between one demanding job (caring for small children) and whatever her next thing is going to be.
In other words, I hate to say it, she may simply be in the middle of a mid-life crisis. It happens more to wealthy people than to the less affluent, but that is only because the wealthy are more inclined to think there is an option that they’ve missed, which could make life easier or better or more ideal.
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EasterJoy
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tucdoc, there’s no point in “coulda, shoulda, woulda”…
I’m sure you made some mistakes. I’m sure she did, too. We’re all sinners, so probably you both have some willful fault under your belts, too, and some faults of which you are blissfully and damagingly unaware. Most of us do.
Regret will get you nowhere. Get some information from people who know how to save marriages, and when you know better, then do better. Maybe you’ll succeed, maybe you won’t, but you’ll have done what you can to free everyone from regret later. That’s probably the best you can do. Let God and God’s mercy take care of the rest. Heaven knows we all have to do that.
Try, though, to have as much compassion on the whole situation as you can. That will give you some miles, right there.
I’m sure you made some mistakes. I’m sure she did, too. We’re all sinners, so probably you both have some willful fault under your belts, too, and some faults of which you are blissfully and damagingly unaware. Most of us do.
Regret will get you nowhere. Get some information from people who know how to save marriages, and when you know better, then do better. Maybe you’ll succeed, maybe you won’t, but you’ll have done what you can to free everyone from regret later. That’s probably the best you can do. Let God and God’s mercy take care of the rest. Heaven knows we all have to do that.
Try, though, to have as much compassion on the whole situation as you can. That will give you some miles, right there.
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faithfully
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EasterJoy… I just wanted to say, so far, I’ve really enjoyed your posts. You write with such compassion… you’ve made me think several times!!!
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tucdoc
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I’ll do what I can seeing a therapist on my own. I’ve been advised not to “lecture” to my wife as she is not being logical right now. Her main emotions (that she tells me) is anger, blaming me for our situation. She does not seem to care how interacting with her new “friends” affects me, nor does she want to take any responsibility for our situation. I don’t know when her anger will subside.
EasterJoy, I agree that this is probably a midlife crisis for my wife. I’ve read about it’s destructive affects. I do love my with and will wait for this crisis to resolve itself since anything I do to help her seems to backfire. I’m taking care of myself, which is what is advised for the LBS (left behind spouse).
Thanks for the posts, please continue praying for us.
EasterJoy, I agree that this is probably a midlife crisis for my wife. I’ve read about it’s destructive affects. I do love my with and will wait for this crisis to resolve itself since anything I do to help her seems to backfire. I’m taking care of myself, which is what is advised for the LBS (left behind spouse).
Thanks for the posts, please continue praying for us.
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SonCatcher
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Faithfully,
I think you misunderstood IAmRefreshed. You take offense and then promote the same idea from your own viewpoint. I have underlined the relevant phrases:
My wife and I make decisions together, as a unit. Once the decision is made, both of us stand by it as though it were our own. I do this even when I yield. So does she. We do this out of love for each other and for the strength of our marriage.
I think you misunderstood IAmRefreshed. You take offense and then promote the same idea from your own viewpoint. I have underlined the relevant phrases:
IAmRefreshed was not insinuating that either spouse loses free will but stating in strong terms that each spouse is responsible primarily to the other.
My wife and I make decisions together, as a unit. Once the decision is made, both of us stand by it as though it were our own. I do this even when I yield. So does she. We do this out of love for each other and for the strength of our marriage.
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tucdoc
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This is what is missing in our marriage, an ability to make a decision together and together support that decision. Maybe we never really had that ability. It was “you take care of this, I’ll take care of that, and we’ll live with it”. I admit that I’ve been controlling on the one hand and enabling on the other. I’m not really sure how we’re going to move forward on that issue. I’m just waiting for my wife to stop being angry with me. Honestly, I don’t know how we will have a healthy marriage if she continue to be unwilling to go to marriage counseling.
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faithfully
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Hi John…
Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut… if you’ll back to my original statement I wrote
"It always makes me cringe when I hear someone say something like that. **She is her own person who must make her own decisions. That’s how we are designed. **We are given a very strict set of rules by God (she’s obviously not following those.) But it’s HER not HIM that is doing the allowing. It’s not clear if the 2 of them ever established “these are our rules.” I’m pretty sure I said in an earlier post… for example, DH and I have friends of the opposite sex. But we’re BOTH involved in these friendships. There is no, “he’s MY friend, not yours, you’re not welcome. That’s not going to fly.” And if one of us were to fall into that, there would be some SERIOUS words. Those are ground rules though. NOT, Hey, I “let” my husband have friends.
"
I had already established my viewpoint with regard to free will that she is her own person who makes her own decision. (Obviously, I had not touched on the becoming one flesh
and THEN I was informed That’s NOT how we’re designed… and then asked if I know anything about Marriage… And that my dear, is where I took offense. If you want to teach someone something, then take the opportunity to graciously share what info you might have you feel they don’t. Don’t be rude, and ask if they know anything about something they’ve already made quite clear they are involved in… But hey, that’s my take. But what I can tell you, if my husband was that disrespectful to me, well, our marriage would be having some problems.
So, my question still remains… If we’re NOT designed to (and I’ll just requote myself and reiterate for better comprehension )“to be our own person who makes our own decisions” BASICALLY having our own free will to choose to behave as prescribed or not, regardless of whether or not we’ve taken marital vows… PLEASE point me to anything within marital teaches that say once married, we lose that free will to follow God’s directions.
Tuc… That’s the thing about prayers. WE DON’T have all the answers. We don’t have to KNOW how it’s going to work out if a person doesn’t go by our plan. We may not have a clue how something is going to work out… we just have to pray and have faith.
**
Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut… if you’ll back to my original statement I wrote
"It always makes me cringe when I hear someone say something like that. **She is her own person who must make her own decisions. That’s how we are designed. **We are given a very strict set of rules by God (she’s obviously not following those.) But it’s HER not HIM that is doing the allowing. It’s not clear if the 2 of them ever established “these are our rules.” I’m pretty sure I said in an earlier post… for example, DH and I have friends of the opposite sex. But we’re BOTH involved in these friendships. There is no, “he’s MY friend, not yours, you’re not welcome. That’s not going to fly.” And if one of us were to fall into that, there would be some SERIOUS words. Those are ground rules though. NOT, Hey, I “let” my husband have friends.
"
I had already established my viewpoint with regard to free will that she is her own person who makes her own decision. (Obviously, I had not touched on the becoming one flesh
and THEN I was informed That’s NOT how we’re designed… and then asked if I know anything about Marriage… And that my dear, is where I took offense. If you want to teach someone something, then take the opportunity to graciously share what info you might have you feel they don’t. Don’t be rude, and ask if they know anything about something they’ve already made quite clear they are involved in… But hey, that’s my take. But what I can tell you, if my husband was that disrespectful to me, well, our marriage would be having some problems.
So, my question still remains… If we’re NOT designed to (and I’ll just requote myself and reiterate for better comprehension )“to be our own person who makes our own decisions” BASICALLY having our own free will to choose to behave as prescribed or not, regardless of whether or not we’ve taken marital vows… PLEASE point me to anything within marital teaches that say once married, we lose that free will to follow God’s directions.
Tuc… That’s the thing about prayers. WE DON’T have all the answers. We don’t have to KNOW how it’s going to work out if a person doesn’t go by our plan. We may not have a clue how something is going to work out… we just have to pray and have faith.
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dashso40
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She probably is thinking too much. I’m a woman, me and your wife are probably the same age and I have young children also. I wish I could stay home but alas I must work part time to cover expenses in the very expensive Long Island, NY. A lot of women have this idealistic view of husbands and look toward other people to fulfill their needs that society thinks is right for them, when what they are looking for is right under their noses. My husband doesn’t compliment me a lot but I know he thinks I’m attractive. I don’t need to hear it, b/c I can tell by his actions. He’s a hard worker, a good father, and a patient, God loving man.Ouch! It looks like I’ve done this to myself. She told me on our first date that she didn’t want to work anymore. I had no problem with a “traditionalist” and understood I would have to support her. But now I suspect that if she had worked, she would have other things to think about and not obsses so about our relationship, whether it’s going well or terribly. She would also have her own money to buy her d*** bracelet. There is still stuff to do with the kids, but they aren’t pre-schoolers anymore, and as they become teenagers she may have even less to do. So, maybe thinking too much is a bad thing?
She should not be hanging out with other men…She needs to reevaluate whats important and that is her husband and her children…Good luck, doc
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tucdoc
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She bought the book “For Better: the Science of a Good Marriage”. She had browsed through it and said it was an excellent book, so I’m starting to read it. Again, I’m trying to be a better person. If my wife does read it (she often will let a book sit a while before actually reading it) and want to talk about some points, I’ll listen. Any sharing will have to come from her. I’m tired of telling her what we should do, I’ve given up on convincing her about marriage counseling or Retroville (sp.?). The ball is in her court, I’m going to focus on me and the kids for now. I’ll wait until she is ready, while still being courteous and thankful that at least we are still all living under the same roof (which is now leaky after a storm, which she said she would call about, and I won’t bug her about getting it done).
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EasterJoy
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I think you may save your marriage. I will warn you, though, having been married for 20 years: when you are the one giving 100% and your spouse seems (in your eyes at least) to be skating through on zero or less, you need two things.
a) to avail yourself of grace at every opportunity–get to Mass more often, pray more often, confess regularly–and to spend particular time in gratitude for it.
This is because none of us has what it takes to “be a better person”. That is a work of the Holy Spirit, and entirely a gift. Artificial goodness always explodes, sooner or later. There have been days when I have said, “I can’t love him, Lord. You do it.” I have always gotten the strength to go on. It taught me who really provides the goodness in our marriage.
b) a person to talk to who will help you bear your frustrations without letting the resentment build up. You are doing a very hard thing. Ask the Lord to send you a Veronica, and a Simon of Cyrene. We all need that, but especially in times like these. (Maybe he can help you figure out how to gracefully get the roof fixed, too.)
This is a gift to your marriage. You are never going to “get it back” in the sense of reciprocation. If your wife ever has to make a sacrifice like this for you, it will be its own gift. She can never repay you for this, and if you ever do this to her, it will be your own sin, not a payback on a loan.
But God will repay you, if you give in that spirit, no matter how your wife responds:
“…love your enemies and do good to them, and lend expecting nothing back; then your reward will be great and you will be children of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. Be merciful, just as (also) your Father is merciful.
"Stop judging and you will not be judged. Stop condemning and you will not be condemned. Forgive and you will be forgiven. Give and gifts will be given to you; a good measure, packed together, shaken down, and overflowing, will be poured into your lap. For the measure with which you measure will in return be measured out to you.” Luke 6: 35-38.
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Tiribulus
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A PERFECTLY SPLENDID PLAN:thumbsup:
Only REALLY listen. I’ve been there my friend. Let her finish even it takes an hour and assume nothing. If you are not sure what she means by something… ASK. If you think you are sure and she says that’s not what she meant… believe her, even if it seems impossible. What alternative do you have? Accusing her of lying? Conversation over. I’m not talking about objective facts here. I mean her feelings and expressions.
She may say “I feel so unloved by you” to which the typical male response is something like “WHAT!! after all I’ve done blah blah blah” That will get you nowhere. Right or wrong, she feels that way and you must proceed from there and assume there’s probably more to what she’s saying than you’d like to believe.
This may be the golden opportunity we’ve all been praying for. During these conversations I beg of thee, focus on your own sin and her needs for now. It will pay off huge in the long run. She is in very grievous sin no doubt, but this is her time to express herself and your time to listen, remember?
It should be clear by now that I am not excusing her in any way, but there is no substitute for the conviction of the Holy Spirit and if she sees genuine masculine godly love coming from you He will make her feel guilty for her infidelity in ways you could never dream of by beating her up. If she is willing to at least talk, this changes everything (or least we must really really hope so) :extrahappy:
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SonCatcher
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I agree there is conflict between the individual person and the married person, since when the individual is married, (s)he does not cease to be an individual. It is up to the individual then to yield to the marriage. When that happens, the marriage (two persons, one flesh) is strong. When an individual fails to yield to the design of marriage, (s)he attacks it.
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SonCatcher
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It would be appropriate to let her know you are reading her book, mainly so she will know what happened if she goes looking for it. If you are tempted to underline, highlight or make margin notes, get a second copy.
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