Wife has given up

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Why don’t you call the “just friends” and ask them their take on their “friendships” with your wife? If there is nothing to hide then there should be no problems in this area. You can get their phone numbers from your cell phone provider… or just check your wife’s phone. If these men are so kind, they will not mind a genuinely concerned inquiry as true friends would be worried about her as well. Confronting these “friends” is an excellent way to exercise your rights to your wife’s heart, soul, mind and body and to let her know that you are willing to go to great lengths to save your marriage. No more baseball games unless you are sitting next to her in the stadium. Better yet, your entire family should go to the baseball games together.
 
We are going to a game next month as a family. I need to decide if my wife wants to invite them if I should tell her no you cannot invite them, allow them to come and and then tell them to leave my wife alone, or explain that I feel my wife has crossed boundaries and to respect our family, especially if they are really “just friends”.
 
Cupofkindness said:
Why don’t you call the “just friends” and ask them their take on their “friendships” with your wife? If there is nothing to hide then there should be no problems in this area. You can get their phone numbers from your cell phone provider… or just check your wife’s phone. If these men are so kind, they will not mind a genuinely concerned inquiry as true friends would be worried about her as well. Confronting these “friends” is an excellent way to exercise your rights to your wife’s heart, soul, mind and body and to let her know that you are willing to go to great lengths to save your marriage. No more baseball games unless you are sitting next to her in the stadium. Better yet, your entire family should go to the baseball games together.
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Personally, I just think it might open him to ridicule. Puts him a complete beta position.
 
tucdoc said:
We are going to a game next month as a family. I need to decide if my wife wants to invite them if I should tell her no you cannot invite them, allow them to come and and then tell them to leave my wife alone, or explain that I feel my wife has crossed boundaries and to respect our family, especially if they are really “just friends”.
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I’d say you take the first route - but I’d wait to see only if she suggests it. In other words, ASSUME it would be completely inappropriate - given the circumstances - for her to bring her “friends.” Because it is. Don’t let her think you’re “worrying” that she’ll invite them or even contemplating that possibility. Be ready in case she does with something good. Be calm. Firm. “If you want to go with them - go with them. If you want to go with your family, then come with us. Your choice.”
 
tucdoc said:
SonCatcher, my therapist advised that I not leave the house, and I don’t think she would leave either. I also don’t know how well she would handle the kids affairs if I’m not there. She thought today was my son’s first day back to Catholic school, so I dropped him off on my way to work. The first day is tomorrow, so she had to go get him. I’m worried about her having a mental condition, but she refuses to take any meds. She accuses me of putting ideas into her head, especially the emotional affairs, which she claims are “just friends”.
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So you said. I was actually thinking she might need to be out of the house for a little. Preferably under the guidance of her therapist (hoping she gets one). The idea is to help her clear her mind - away from husband, kids, the house and (hopefully) stress.

On your family trip to the game, the best explanation is that it’s a family trip so you get time together as a family. (though you could allow that if you happened to bump into them at the game, it would be good to put faces with the names - you might even thank them for being a “helpful” outlet for her)

On that note, be sure to pray for them. As my mother often says, “Love your enemies. It gets them every time.”
 
I’ve taken them out of town for vacation various times just to give my wife a break. Of course, the last time I did this she ended up going to a baseball game with one of her “friends”. She said it was quiet and peaceful without us there. I told her it can’t always be that way. I’ve even asked if she wanted to go to a place where she could stay several days for therapy sessions, but she’s even refused that sort of “spa counseling”.
 
Cupofkindness said:
Why don’t you call the “just friends” and ask them their take on their “friendships” with your wife? If there is nothing to hide then there should be no problems in this area. You can get their phone numbers from your cell phone provider… or just check your wife’s phone. If these men are so kind, they will not mind a genuinely concerned inquiry as true friends would be worried about her as well. Confronting these “friends” is an excellent way to exercise your rights to your wife’s heart, soul, mind and body and to let her know that you are willing to go to great lengths to save your marriage. No more baseball games unless you are sitting next to her in the stadium. Better yet, your entire family should go to the baseball games together.
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Check her phone? Ask the cell phone company for the numbers? That’s SURE to drive her away.
 
tucdoc said:
My wife has become emtionally distant after finally telling me she has been unhappy for years. This despite having a comfortable lifestyle and two beautiful healthy children. In fact, she has new “friends” (males) who I believe are meeting her emotional needs. Baseball is her passion and she met these “friends” at games she went to on her own. It has gotten to the point where we cannot go out to dinner, but she has tried to have dinner with these “friends”. I told her no, and she was very upset. She sees no problem with them, I accuse her of being in a fog. She won’t let me hug or kiss her. I’m concerned that her lack of love in the home is starting to affect the children. I will not move out. It’s just hard to see how the marriage can last if she refuses to put any effort into it and refuses to go to counseling.😦
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I’m not a therapist. But the way you right this, has me questioning many things.
  1. Does a comfortable lifestyle and 2 beautiful healthy children = a happy marriage?
  2. You beleive these “friends” are meeting her emotional needs. How so? How could you know? What are her emotional needs? In that, it sounds like you know you aren’t meeting them. Or is this brand new news to you?
  3. I personally have a rule. You can have friends of the opposite sex, but they are OUR friends, not YOUR friends. If they can’t seem to be my friend too, then the relationship is inappropriate and THEY know that. Meaning. How come you and these guy friends can’t go out together. All 3 or 4 of you? I actually have a handful of male friends. HOWEVER, my husband is NEVER excluded from this. If I hear from the friend, DH knows. I share the news. It is NOT uncomfy if the 3 of us go out. They have “guy” things in common too. And we perhaps have childhood, school, or work in common. And when they have become romantically involved with another woman (NOT ME), we usually get ANOTHER friend. And honestly, this is something that we evaluate on a person by person basis.
  4. Why can’t you go out to dinner? Does she not like your company? Is she specific about what that is?
  5. Accusing? Odd choice of words.
  6. Does she not show affection to her own children? If not, I suspect she is depressed. And perhaps completely worn out from having to take care of everyone’s needs but her own. (speculation on my part)
  7. She refuses to put effort into it. How would you define the effort needed from her to save the marriage?
 
tucdoc said:
A Catholic friend had advised me to take care of myself and that right now my wife will do what she wants. I am seeing a therapist and joined the YMCA. I told the kids that I’m here for them if they want to talk and acknowledged to them that “it’s been kinda rough” between my wife and I. I reassured them that I love them both very much.
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Do you reassure them that their MOTHER loves them both very much too, that she’s having a hard time right now?
 
tucdoc said:
Bluegoat, she says she’s unhappy because I’ve been insensitive and uncaring towards her. She remembers incidents from our 14 years of marriage when I disappointed her. One episode that still makes her cry is that I was not with her when her mom died 6 years ago. This happened out of state and I couldn’t leave work, but I did go to the funeral. I apparently don’t compliment her on her appearance or act as I care about her. She also feels that I’ve coerced her into having sex with me. I admitted and apologized for those times, but prior to this year sex had not been an issue. Now that I’m more aware of her needs she basically says it’s too late because she doesn’t want to get hurt again. I’m concerned that she is just recalling my shortcomings to justify having these new “friends”, one of which she has described as “so kind”.

Several of our friends know that things aren’t right, and they actually wanted to do an intervetion. I’m not sure that would be very productive.

Responding to The Bucket, I’ve made most of the money decisions for the family. I have gotten upset with her when I feel she spends too much. She has never wanted to have a fixed budget (she says she’s not good with numbers), so I’m left to react to the credit card statements. She says I treat her like s***, and I admitted that money issues are probably a big part of that, but she doesn’t come up with a solution.
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Curious about the death of her mom. This can be a very difficult thing to endure. Was she extremely close to her mother? How is it that you couldn’t leave work? In our state, you would be allowed to do so. (not that it might not have been difficult.) Did she have to care for the children while taking care of biz for her mother? I realize this was 6 years ago. But is it possible that you showed your wife that when at lifes WORST moments you will not be around unless it’s somehow conveinent for you? What happens if something happens with a child. Does she KNOW she can count on you? Based on what experience? Going to a funeral was done by many. What makes you stand out as the loving caring husband in that group?

Re money… ouch hard one! It doesn’t sound like she’s opposed to a budget. She just doesn’t want to break out a calc. to see if she has enough $$. Perhaps she should work with cash ONLY. If she REFUSES to do the math. Then that’s a compromise. Credit cards should be stuck in the drawer and used only when absolutely necessary. Group decision. Money has to be a group decision.
 
tucdoc said:
The problems is she can’t or won’t forgive. The “straw” was when I called her a b**** after she kept complaining about her life right before Easter. I asked her how many other women would want to be in her position. It turns out she had already told one of her “friends” that she was unhappy, rather than telling me or one of her close female friends. I did apologize for the insult, although not right away. Since then I’ve advised her to just let it go, as I only called her a name once, while she is calling it to herself over and over again each time she remembers. She has cried so much remembering all of my faults that she now has a stye in her eye. I’ve sent her numberous links from our diocese’s website regarding marriage, but she just ignores them. She would rather be upset at me than talk to a counsilor. It’s just so frustrating that we can’t move forward with our relationship.

She already told me she doesn’t love me and that she will never have sex with me again. So, I suppose I don’t have much to lose if our friends intervene.
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Name calling… Not nice, but you know that. So, HOW MANY women do want to be in her position? What is this great life? Nice house, and beautiful children? Right? Now, I don’t think she should be confiding in a MAN that is not one of your shared friends about your marriage. Line also crossed.

Just so you know, (copied from .vision.about.com ) A stye, or hordeolum, is a small bump that can appear on the outside or inside of the eyelid. A stye develops from an eyelash follicle or an eyelid oil gland that becomes clogged from excess oil, debris or bacteria. Styes seem to be brought on by increased stress, but can also be a complication of another condition, called blepharitis.

Basically, it’s NOT from crying.

She doesn’t love you and won’t have sex with you again. Well, I don’t know about the “love” part. But I can’t imagine why you want to have sex right now. Things are so bad with your relationship at the moment. Surely, you’re not worried about your physical needs right now, when your marriage hangs in the balance. AND, I assume you wouldn’t be using any form of BC. So, why would you even risk a PG at the moment?

Sometimes, people need to work out their anger. Before they are even remotely close to being able to seek any help. If a friend where to “intervene” I personally would see to it that it’s a friend that you both would normally trust. That it be one person, and that they offer to lend an ear. Based on the fact they can see that she is pained over something.
 
faithfully said:
I’m not a therapist. But the way you write this, has me questioning many things.
  1. Does a comfortable lifestyle and 2 beautiful healthy children = a happy marriage?
  2. You beleive these “friends” are meeting her emotional needs. How so? How could you know? What are her emotional needs? In that, it sounds like you know you aren’t meeting them. Or is this brand new news to you?
  3. I personally have a rule. You can have friends of the opposite sex, but they are OUR friends, not YOUR friends. If they can’t seem to be my friend too, then the relationship is inappropriate and THEY know that. Meaning. How come you and these guy friends can’t go out together. All 3 or 4 of you? I actually have a handful of male friends. HOWEVER, my husband is NEVER excluded from this. If I hear from the friend, DH knows. I share the news. It is NOT uncomfy if the 3 of us go out. They have “guy” things in common too. And we perhaps have childhood, school, or work in common. And when they have become romantically involved with another woman (NOT ME), we usually get ANOTHER friend. And honestly, this is something that we evaluate on a person by person basis.
  4. Why can’t you go out to dinner? Does she not like your company? Is she specific about what that is?
  5. Accusing? Odd choice of words.
  6. Does she not show affection to her own children? If not, I suspect she is depressed. And perhaps completely worn out from having to take care of everyone’s needs but her own. (speculation on my part)
  7. She refuses to put effort into it. How would you define the effort needed from her to save the marriage?
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Hi TucDoc.

Your name suggests you might be a plastic Surgeon?

I just listed a bunch of questions above. Please don’t feel you need to respond to all/any of them. They are just things that I thought about based on the limited info you have offered. And they may seem harsh, although that’s not my intention.

Really, not knowing even remotely enough about your family situation, it sounds like perhaps what you and your DW HAD established as a great marrital situation may need to mature and be redefined.

Marriage is really a partnership as you know. Each spouse takes on different roles. It sounds as though your wife might be a SAHM. And that you provide the means for this.

I would ask that you consider that she offers a VERY valuable service that goes unpaid. That SHOULD SHE go out and work, you both would pay considerably more than often goes unacknowledged. You may make a very healthy salary. But if you have 2 very beautiful, healthy in body and mind children, your wife has been working very hard too. And as a SAHM, whose DH works very long hours, I can tell you, it’s gets LONELY, STRESSFUL, and totally physcially EXHAUSTING. And if my DH can’t be an EMOTIONAL support to me, via the occasional phone call, or whatever, in addition to a PARTICIPATING MARRIAGE PARTNER, he would be utterly useless to me. I’m am perfectly capable of running the house, earning a fine salary outside the home, and managing the kids. I’m a multi tasker to the max. I don’t need him for $$. I need him because he’s my soul mate, and my partner in LIFE. We are a team. (and yes, he ticks me off all the time, but we work it out! LOL!)

I truly don’t have answers for you. I will offer prayers for you. What I would recommend, is that you pray to God, and ask for guidance. Ask that your wife be guided back home to your marriage.

(OH, and I’d ignore the advise, that thinks a Holy Priest should smack your wife… JEESH, when will people quit using their religion to abuse others… unacceptable.) I would HOPE TO GOD that ANY Man that smacked your wife, would earn himself a wrath from you! Priest or not!

And, regarding the “friends”, unless DW, is looking to bring these friends home to be TRUE friends, people who would never interfere with a marriage, and prey on one that is falling apart, then she really needs to agree to not see them, or communicate with them until you have resolved your problems. Whether that’s a divorce, or that your marriage comes back together stronger than before. In which case, if they are true friends, they will not threaten your marriage, or they will just go away.
 
I just want to ask do you actually think her friends are a threat to your relationship with your wife, or are they a threat because they exist? I have a bunch of male friends because I find most girls my age fairly annoying. If my husband in the future told me I couldn’t have those friends because they are males, that would be a problem. Also, if I had a hobby and I kept seeing the same people while participating in that hobby and made friends, even with guys, I would expect my husband to accept that. If the OP was going to every game with his wife, she probably wouldn’t have made these friends. If he’s not going with her, why is it wrong for her to have a couple friend who she can enjoy the hobby with?

You believe they are meeting her emotional needs, but she hasn’t said anything about this. And you should have been meeting those needs so there wasn’t a hole to be filled.

Kids and a “comfortable life” do not automatically make a woman happy, and it’s unfair to expect that it should.

You’ve called her a pretty awful name and are upset that it still hurts her.

I can see why she might not want to go out to dinner with you.

This is not to say she is blameless, she should also be working to fix things, but you have unrealistic expectations. She should not go to baseball games (her passion) unless you happen to want to go. She should forget that you name called. She should just be happy because other women would want to be in her situation (to your mind). She shouldn’t be friends with people who actually share her love of baseball.

By the way, you can’t ban her friends from going to the baseball game. If they also love baseball they will probably go on their own, even if she goes with you, so don’t get mad at her just because they are there.
 
I am a hard line Westminster Assembly Calvinist who stumbled over this forum and thread looking for something else, but this for me has nothing to do with the “papists vs. the apostates” thing. Truly it doesn’t. It is tearing my heart out:crying: reading this guys story which does seem credible though we still only have his side.

Ephesians 5 (which somebody did mention before) COMMANDS husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her. We are told that a man who loves his wife loves himself as the 2 are indistinguishable. There is such a thing as a contentious women that no amount of godly affection will turn, but while she is your wife you must love her as Christ loves you and you love yourself.

Did Christ love the church because she was lovable? Or did He bring to her what He would find lovable in her? Good grief you folks don’t need therapy for God’s sake you need Jesus. Do you people regard the risen Son of God as the the reason you open your eyes in the morning? Your hope of eternity and your first love that you are loathe to offend? If not you’re wasting everybody’s time here and I’m wasting yours.

She will never be more submitted to God than she is to you and you will never love God more than you love her. Neither is possible or God’s word is a lie. The problem you both have is not any more complicated than being more concerned with ME ME ME than how today can I more perfectly please my Lord by fulfilling his will in our “one flesh” marriage which is described by Paul in Eph. 5 again as being directly analogous to the bridegroom Christ and His church bride.

I have no idea how this specifically translates into action in your case, but YOU sir are the one responsible for bringing the love into that home and marriage. He charges YOU and not her with being the one to lead in love like a man. Go into the bathroom, look yourself in the eye and tell yourself you’ve made her your earthly life’s mission and adventure and that you have REALLY sought the face of God in your quest for learning to love her with God;s love through you. I dare ya.

Be attentive and listen to her. Listen prayerfully with your heart and you will learn what to do. Yes, Jesus is God, but even He said He didn’t come to seek His own glory, but to do the will of His Father which was to love His church and give Himself for her. Everything you do, every decision you make is to be, except where it would be sin, for her safety, security and comfort first. She is the weaker vessel even though it doesn’t sound like she thinks so at the moment.

Remember when you first met how magical it was and how you would have walked on your knees through 10 miles of broken glass to see her? That does not have to die though a mature love will go far beyond the emotions. Forgive me for going on like this, but it didn’t have to be this way for either of you or God is not as powerful as we’ve been led to believe which is the opposite of the truth. He is far more powerful than we could ever comprehend and He can bring joyous reconciliation into any marriage where He is exalted as King of Kings. If you come back with something like “yeah yeah yeah, I’ve done all that, but she’s just impossible” then kindly disregard everything I’ve just said and carry on as you were.

EDIT: Oh yeah, those friends of hers? Mark my words friend. They are an affair in the making and anybody who tells you otherwise knows nothing of the Word of God or fallen human nature. I can hear the objections already from some people. Fine, just watch.
 
Many a marriage partner is unhappy, but being unhappy, and remaining true to one’s belief and commitments is the decision that many make…and but for a marriage partner to be willing to court relationships that can possibly lead to adultery (and scandal to your children) does perhaps show character weakness or immaturity.

I’m not sure that efforts to reason with the disgruntled person
or to urge moral/Christian principles for trying to redeem a marriage,
actually work, if the other person is more concerned with personal happiness than with seeking means to rehabilitate a marriage.

May God bless you both, and the children,
and may the Holy Spirit give you both wisdom,
mutual openness and understanding with honest acknowledgement of the personal failings that each need to overcome, but also of the other’s virtues.
God grant healing and mutual respect to your relationship for you both and for your children.
 
Faithfully, thanks for all of your probing questions. This is the kind of feedback I’m looking for, not just “she’s given up, so you should to”. We live in Tucson.

Well, last PM she said her anxiety and not wanting me to touch her stems from me being sexually selfish with her at the end of March. This was after she had met her new “friends” and kept talking about them. She even wanted to go to Detroit with one of them to see her favorite pitcher, who got traded to that team. I absolutely said no, you can’t go. So, I suspect the resentment was already building even before I insulted her. Since then she went to New York with her other “friend” to see the Yankees play since he is a fan of that team. I told her no, she went anyway. IT TORE ME APART. She has no regrets about going. However, she did not want me telling anybody about her trip, as it could have been “misunderstood”. That didn’t sit well, so a few people do know, and agree that it was inappropriate. I’ve told her that not only does she not love me, she has no respect for me.

I realize that I’ve met her material but not her emotional needs. I don’t really know what they are anymore. The only thing she does now is cry when we talk about the relationship. I’ve not expected too much from her in meeting my emotional needs, and she never asked what they were. Now that I want to start communicating on this level, she say it’s too late. I feel a loving marriage would be meeting our emotional needs, and that is what I’m trying to do, apparently all by myself.
 
tucdoc said:
I’m concerned that she is just recalling my shortcomings to justify having these new “friends”, one of which she has described as “so kind”.

Several of our friends know that things aren’t right, and they actually wanted to do an intervetion. I’m not sure that would be very productive.
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I think you are spot on with that first comment.

Wives should not have male friends without the husband also being friends.

Does her family and yours know she’s running around with other men?
 
tucdoc said:
Faithfully, thanks for all of your probing questions. This is the kind of feedback I’m looking for, not just “she’s given up, so you should to”. We live in Tucson.

Well, last PM she said her anxiety and not wanting me to touch her stems from me being sexually selfish with her at the end of March. This was after she had met her new “friends” and kept talking about them. She even wanted to go to Detroit with one of them to see her favorite pitcher, who got traded to that team. I absolutely said no, you can’t go. So, I suspect the resentment was already building even before I insulted her. Since then she went to New York with her other “friend” to see the Yankees play since he is a fan of that team. I told her no, she went anyway. IT TORE ME APART. She has no regrets about going. However, she did not want me telling anybody about her trip, as it could have been “misunderstood”. That didn’t sit well, so a few people do know, and agree that it was inappropriate. I’ve told her that not only does she not love me, she has no respect for me.

I realize that I’ve met her material but not her emotional needs. I don’t really know what they are anymore. The only thing she does now is cry when we talk about the relationship. I’ve not expected too much from her in meeting my emotional needs, and she never asked what they were. Now that I want to start communicating on this level, she say it’s too late. I feel a loving marriage would be meeting our emotional needs, and that is what I’m trying to do, apparently all by myself.
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This is intolerable tucdoc. I lay odds she is having an affair. Try this forum for advice in finding out.

 
iamrefreshed said:
This is intolerable tucdoc. I lay odds she is having an affair. Try this forum for advice in finding out.

marriagebuilders.com
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Just in case anybody cares what an apostate though concerned protestant thinks, I wholeheartedly second iamrefreshed. I didn’t wanna come right and say it, but every single sign is there. I’ll bet money she is refusing her husband intimacy because she doesn’t want to feel like a whore by engaging more than one man at a time. I am not God and I could be wrong, but boy does it sure sound like it.

Don’t ask me why this thread caught my eye like it did, but I assure you people I have only the purest of intentions here. I thought about saying I was Catholic, but that wouldn’t be right.

iamrefreshed is also the first person (I think) to quite rightly state that no wife should EVER have male friends apart from her husband. EVER. No Christian wife anyway, despite what the post modern “liberated” young lady has said above. That goes the other way as well. No husband should ever have female friends apart from the circle with his wife either. In 18 years I have never allowed myself so much as the remote possibility for an adulterous affair to even seed in my life. Not because I’m so strong and holy. Just the opposite.

The God who commands light to exist and converts the murderous Saul of Tarsus into the mighty apostle Paul can save this marriage, but it will take monumental faith, love and perseverance on the part of Tucdoc first before any response from the wife will be forthcoming. I’ll also say again. If the risen Christ is not made the center of all this then eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.
 
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