Wife has given up

[Tiribulus]

<<< Is it possible that she started becoming depressed again from a baseball transaction, which made her look at our relationship so negatively that she would only find comfort with fellow baseball fans? >>>

:banghead:
It’s very tough to find fault with the compassionate advice these fine ladies have been giving you the last couple pages. I mean that. However, your wife is playin you like a fiddle my friend. Her covenant marriage before almighty God is crumbling, she is imperiling the well being of 2 flesh and blood offspring that she carried and gave birth to and her major trauma is a pitcher going to the Tigers? AND has you considering that as a possibility? That is the most breathtaking display of emotional sophistry I’ve ever heard of:bowdown:
I’m simply giving my decidedly male view again. This is not about baseball. I don’t even believe baseball is a major factor or symptom. This is about a sinful self obsessed self serving little girl in a woman’s body groping around in a quest for fulfillment outside of God’s will.
The reason she feels most at peace when you’re not around is because the most overt reminder of her ongoing adultery is not there to convict her of her immorality.
I really hope while you’re contemplating her recovery from a baseball trade that she doesn’t turn up pregnant by one of these other men.

 

[iamrefreshed]

:banghead:
It’s very tough to find fault with the compassionate advice these fine ladies have been giving you the last couple pages. I mean that. However, your wife is playin you like a fiddle my friend. Her covenant marriage before almighty God is crumbling, she is imperiling the well being of 2 flesh and blood offspring that she carried and gave birth to and her major trauma is a pitcher going to the Tigers? AND has you considering that as a possibility? That is the most breathtaking display of emotional sophistry I’ve ever heard of:bowdown:
I’m simply giving my decidedly male view again. This is not about baseball. I don’t even believe baseball is a major factor or symptom. This is about a sinful self obsessed self serving little girl in a woman’s body groping around in a quest for fulfillment outside of God’s will.
The reason she feels most at peace when you’re not around is because the most overt reminder of her ongoing adultery is not there to convict her of her immorality.
I really hope while you’re contemplating her recovery from a baseball trade that she doesn’t turn up pregnant by one of these other men.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

Women don’t respect doormats! Stop being a doormat.

It’s time to cancel credit cards, can the baseball crapola and put your foot down.

Why are you financing her affairs?

 

[Irishmom2]

Women don’t respect doormats! Stop being a doormat.

They don’t respect them, but they will use them and wipe their feet on them on the way out of the marital door.

 

[tucdoc]

The only other option I have right now is the “nuclear option” of divorce. She would rather be unhappy in our marriage than divorced. I don’t want to play the divorce card unless absolutely necessary. However, I’m becoming less afraid of playing that card. I could go on with my life single again. Her going to New York again would be the last straw. I refuse to continue this marriage if she continues to disrespect me and cross boundaries by insisting on going to another game like that. Short of that act, I’m willing to give her time to reassess our marriage.

 

[angelerulastiel]

You know, she gave you YEARS to change. You’ve given her much less time to change and fix the problem. If it took you years and years to realize there was a problem and more time to start changing to fix that problem, why do you expect her to change the very second you start treating her like a wife not a child?

 

[tucdoc]

I never tempted myself by being with another woman long enough to consider cheating on my wife. I respected that boundary. She has already crossed an emotional boundary by being infatuated by these guys. I use that term because she lights up so when talking about them. I’ve recognized my faults and am trying to make things right. She admitted that she was to blame for internalizing her grievances. I’m not planning on internalizing mine, but rather, expressing them in a calm, repectful manner.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Short of that act, I’m willing to give her time to reassess our marriage.

Need to add…as long as she ceases contact with the other men!

 

[iamrefreshed]

You know, she gave you YEARS to change. You’ve given her much less time to change and fix the problem. If it took you years and years to realize there was a problem and more time to start changing to fix that problem, why do you expect her to change the very second you start treating her like a wife not a child?

So while she changes you advocate her dating?

 

[faithfully]

The only other option I have right now is the “nuclear option” of divorce. She would rather be unhappy in our marriage than divorced. I don’t want to play the divorce card unless absolutely necessary. However, I’m becoming less afraid of playing that card. I could go on with my life single again. Her going to New York again would be the last straw. I refuse to continue this marriage if she continues to disrespect me and cross boundaries by insisting on going to another game like that. Short of that act, I’m willing to give her time to reassess our marriage.

See, Part of me wants really badly to just smack you upside the head. Through out this thread, you’ve spoken of your wife and your relationship in a fashion that makes me cringe. There sounds that other than the ol’ mighty dollar, and all that it can buy, your marriage offered little. Little compassion, little emotional support. It sounds like a very lonely existance And I see (based soley on what has been written) why a person would wrap themselves up in money and gifts. It’s THE ONLY WAY love has been shown… But, even a depressed person can eventually see they need actual affection, and interaction.

I really do feel whether rightly or wrongly, your wife has felt so neglected over the last years, that you’re not perhaps being there when she needed you most showed her that you’re just a checkbook she’s married to. She just clung to the check book. Then it gets yanked back, and well, probably isn’t even that satisfying anyway. She has sought, inappropriately, affection in some fashion elsewhere. She lights up, because she’s FINALLY getting what she’s needed all this time. When it should be YOU that sparks that light.

So, NOW what to do. I don’t think you should sit back. Because, if she continues with these other parties, it’s going to introduce a variable that is generally magnified all by itself. Everyone is likely to say… hey neglect is one thing… having sex with someone else is a whole nother ball of wax. Yet, neglect creates a person who is neglectfull… So…

Anyhow… in way that you deem approproiate. I personally wouldn’t wait for her to drop a variable into the equation that you won’t be able to get over. I would let her know, very clearly, that a trip ANYWHERE with these guys will find her self returning to divorce papers. I would tell her, that you actually plan to fix this, one way or another. That you don’t plan to stay married miserably just for the sake of marriage. That does NOTHING for anyone and teaches your children to settle for cr*p. That you need her to step up or step out. To choose like an adult. Yes, it all bites. Yes, you recognize that you’ve been a disaster yourself. But to just decide to keep up ill behavior on both parts is totally immature…

Regarding being a doormat… I feel like there is almost a joke written in… What did one door mat say to the other?

It’s true, women don’t respect a doormat. But you didn’t lose her to being a doormat did you? You lost her to treating her like one…

In know… Harsh… I’m sorry… EasterJoy, is SOOOO much smoother than I…

But you’re in the fight for your Marriage right now… You need to come out swingin’. (not physically…ok???) The only way your wife is going to feel wanted, IMO, is for you to show her that you do infact love her, and that you’re going to fight for this. Sitting back in the corner is just a forefit.

Hang in there!

 

[Tiribulus]

The only other option I have right now is the “nuclear option” of divorce. >>>

But that’s not the only option you have. I can’t answer fully now, I have work to do, but if it were me I wouldn’t be up to divorce unless there were proven or admitted actual sex with someone other than you and even then there could be hope. My main point is that the present circumstances are a timebomb on a few VERY serious levels.

She needs to either get away from these men or get away from you and your resources which doesn’t instantly necessitate divorce. NO YELLING OR INSULTS though. I gotta go. I’m late

 

[EasterJoy]

I never tempted myself by being with another woman long enough to consider cheating on my wife. I respected that boundary. She has already crossed an emotional boundary by being infatuated by these guys. I use that term because she lights up so when talking about them. I’ve recognized my faults and am trying to make things right. She admitted that she was to blame for internalizing her grievances. I’m not planning on internalizing mine, but rather, expressing them in a calm, repectful manner.

Allow me to tell you a joke that is very popular among chemists:
Q: Why did the chemist take a mistress?
A: Easy! That way, he could tell his wife he was with his mistress, he could tell his mistress he was with his wife, and he could spend more time at lab!

The point being, of course, that there are far more things than other women that can take a man’s heart. More to the point, it can almost be more insulting to have a job replace you in your beloved’s heart than to have another woman there! Women are the ones who came up with things like “I’m a sports widow” and “the sea is his mistress.” Pay attention to how your wife’s thinking runs in that direction. She may think you’ve been having an emotional affair with your work (or solitary hobbies like working on your car) since before she ever met you! My brother, for instance, is a truck-driver. He loves to work on it and keep it looking beautiful. He’s proud of the rig, and the work of keeping it up relaxes him. He looked long and hard, though, before he found someone to marry who didn’t feel she was in competition with his truck!

I don’t mean that you’ve been unfaithful to your wife in how much attention you’ve given to your work habits (or whatever else you do that she might be jealous of). I do mean that it is not unusual for a woman to set up expectations that are completely reasonable for one of her friends to navigate, but that are, for her husband, the equivalent of a series of invisible flaming hoops. It is entirely common for a husband to think, “I’ll do this work, I’ll make sacrifices, I’ll give her security and a nice home, she’ll feel so loved”, while the wife thinks, “I’m glad he’s a good provider, but why does his job always have to come first? He didn’t work a bit less hard when we met than he does now…how can he say he does it for me? He did it before he met me, and if I died tomorrow, he’d work just as hard. Can’t he see that I need him at home more? Does he love me, or am I just one of his accomplishments?” If you asked the woman to tell her husband her feelings, she might say, “Tell him? How can he not know? What, now I’m supposed to beg for him to pay attention to me, his wife? It doesn’t mean anything if I have to ask for his time. It only means something if he gives it freely, because he wants to, not because I ask.” Yes, there are people who think that good husbands and good wives are mind-readers. I kid you not.

If that describes your marriage, don’t beat up yourself or her too much for that situation. It is very common. Find a good marriage therapist and learn how to speak in word and action so that what you say and do is more likely to be what she actually hears and sees. As the saying goes: Make a good-faith effort, and when you know better, do better. Chalk up the rest to experience.

Come to think of it, you might be able to use the concept of being a “sports widower” to explain some of the issues you have with her baseball fervor. If she thinks about how she and her friends or sisters would see a man who is a sports fanatic who habitually goes to ballgames with a bunch of “women friends”, or, more likely, a man who loves ballroom dancing and doesn’t even invite his non-dancing wife to enjoy the social side of the ballroom scene, she’ll see what you mean. There doesn’t have to be any real infidelity, emotional or otherwise, for the non-participating spouse to feel hurt and left out.

 

[tucdoc]

Faithfully, I’m doing what I can to show her I’m changing, rather than just telling her. I listen when she speaks to me. I’ve told her she is a beautiful woman and that these “friends” could easily become more than that because she is so beautiful. I’ve asked to go on dates with her, but she refuses to go with me. I’m not lecturing to her anymore. I’ve told her I can’t control her, only myself. I can’t undo the damage that has been done, I can only move forward. If she remains stuck in the past then there is no future to our relationship. Early on I advised her to just let go, but she can’t/won’t. What more can I do if she insists on being unhappy? Do I buy her the bracelet and the Louis-Viton bag she’s been talking about? That will just perpetuate the status quo. I would like a new marriage, one where we both decide on what’s best for the whole family. It may be too much to ask now.

 

[angelerulastiel]

So while she changes you advocate her dating?

No, I advocate that while he shows her he is changing that he gives her time to change too, rather than continuing to order her to not do things and divorcing her if she doesn’t obey orders.

 

[tucdoc]

All right then, what do I do if she insists on going to New York with her “friend”? She may not be in love with him, but it’s still inappropriate.

 

[faithfully]

Faithfully, I’m doing what I can to show her I’m changing, rather than just telling her. Good

I listen when she speaks to me. Good I’ve told her she is a beautiful woman and that these “friends” could easily become more than that because she is so beautiful. WHAT??? So, if she was ugly, then it could never happen? It could become more than friendship because she is getting her attention elsewhere. Look, I know people that you would NEVER expect to cheat on the other. I’m thinking of one couple in particular. The husband, however, became friends with this cute little number. She devoted her full attn to him. In what I’m sure felt familiar. What the beginnings of his relationship with his wife felt like. Minus, mortgage, stress, children, etc… one thing lead to another, and this guy is talking about leaving his wife. This girl is his “soul” mate. Luckily the rose colored glasses came off. But the damage that did. And as far as I know, there weren’t even any problems at home. Trust me… THIS IS NOT about LOOKS!!! I’ve asked to go on dates with her, but she refuses to go with me. Well, I guess you’re going to have to woo her ALL OVER again. How did you get her attn. at first. She had to see a guy with promise first. Right? Who was THAT guy? I’m not lecturing to her anymore.Good I’ve told her I can’t control her, only myself. True, but you do have expectations. And expectations that she should have NO problem living up to. I can’t undo the damage that has been done, I can only move forward. If she remains stuck in the past then there is no future to our relationship. Early on I advised her to just let go, but she can’t/won’t. I know you’ve QUIT advising by now, right??? You know that saying: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Choosing not to learn from history can be VERY difficult. It’s a sad invitation to get steam rolled again. What more can I do if she insists on being unhappy?I don’t think she’s insisting on being unhappy. I suspect, she thinks this is as good as it gets. And you’re on the right track to correction. Do I buy her the bracelet and the Louis-Viton bag she’s been talking about? TNO, I’m not sure that’s the answer. Your earlier posts indicate the sadness about the bracelet. Why didn’t you buy it? Written in a way that she really equated love to $$. Not sure how to go about redefining that definition. Surely, she has spending cash. She doesn’t ask permission. Not sure why she can’t put some away to buy the bag herself. hat will just perpetuate the status quo. I would like a new marriage, one where we both decide on what’s best for the whole family. It may be too much to ask now.Sadly, it seems a cancer has been ignored until its late stages. These are the hardest to battle. They take the most out of you. And the medicine dang near kills you in the mean time. Though, many fight, and win. But only those that ASSUME they will win. FORCE a good attitude. ENDURE the pain as common side effects are the survivors. Making changes to their lifestyle along the way. Eliminating bad diets, attitudes, and environments that feed the cancer. THEN and ONLY then, are they cured, and perhaps stronger.

 

[faithfully]

All right then, what do I do if she insists on going to New York with her “friend”? She may not be in love with him, but it’s still inappropriate.

I can only answer in the way I would to my DH. We are not in the same place, but I’d say, if he thought he was going ANYWHERE, I mean even across the street, with a woman that is not a family friend, AND we were having marital problems… He would be informed that he would not be having his cake and eating it too. He would return to a house with new locks on the doors, and no promises about the condition of his belongings. I would NOT be willing to just live together, in misery, so he would not have to worry say about making child support, or seeing his kids just on weekends. If he wants the convience of marriage as it stands, he’d HAVE to give a little. Meaning, he would HAVE to make some effort.

The fact that your wife admits that she kept it all bottled inside… well, then I’d say it’s not to fair (not that life is) that she’s also saying “too little, too late” You can’t fix something you don’t know is broken. And this is where, I THINK, my personal imaginary situation would be different. I’d have been giving DH an earful for a long time by now. I’d be letting her know that you plan on making effort. That you wished she had informed you earlier, as you would have, hopefully, started your efforts sooner. But you both need time. And seriously, her introducing the variable of another man, is setting the whole situation up for failure.

Now, I’m the Wife in this picture, and I happen to be quite functional, and capable. I expect my husband to be much more than a paycheck. I don’t actually NEED him for that. I can do ALL the THINGS he can do. I NEED him for his PERSON. Not just any guy can offer that. But if he can’t give me that? Then he’d be outie… I won’t raise my children in a hostile, miserable home. I won’t have them learn that you treat a person with utter contempt and hatred… or just endure. I want my children to learn as much as possilbe about a healthy relationship, and how to function, and how to identify. I can’t guarantee they will have it made in the shade, but I can do my best to set them up for success. Children that live in such hatred and anger, will pretty much start out emotionally bruised at best. And, yes, perhaps that’s how your wife ended up with a guy that neglects her emotions, but at least wasn’t a raging alcoholic who screamed. You fit a need. She’s actually matured and realized there should be more. Sadly, she’s NOT going about getting it, in a good/appropriate way. EDITING TO ADD: it sounds like she COULD have that at home… but it’s going to take some work… talking… etc… YOU COULD have one of those marriages that people want to emulate!

Again, my personal take. You’ll know what resonates, and what doesn’t… I wish you the best.

 

[tucdoc]

She refuses to do any work towards the marriage. She would rather be unhappy than try to let go of the past and move forward. She says she doesn’t want to get hurt again. I’m sorry, but there are no guarantees in life. I will do better than before, but I’m not perfect. She is being unrealistic, immature and selfish. I will strive to be the person I need to be, expecting nothing in return from her except to take care of the kids. I’m tired of telling her how things would be better if she just lived in the present. Maybe it’s for the best if she does go to New York and I file for divorce. She can live her fantasy life, and I can move forward with mine.

 

[angelerulastiel]

Have you tried discussing the New York thing more than just ordering her not to go? Have you told her why you don’t want her going. Asking why it is more important to go and set herself up for scandalous talk than to go with her husband. Understanding that this is a big deal to her, even if it seems stupid to you. I can practically guarantee that ordering her not to go, or threatening her with divorce if she goes it going to have the effect opposite what you want. Discuss it with her and try to MUTUALLY agree on an alternate solution.

 

[SonCatcher]

She refuses to do any work towards the marriage. She would rather be unhappy than try to let go of the past and move forward. She says she doesn’t want to get hurt again. I’m sorry, but there are no guarantees in life. I will do better than before, but I’m not perfect. She is being unrealistic, immature and selfish. I will strive to be the person I need to be, expecting nothing in return from her except to take care of the kids. I’m tired of telling her how things would be better if she just lived in the present. Maybe it’s for the best if she does go to New York and I file for divorce. She can live her fantasy life, and I can move forward with mine.

That’s a rather immature attitude in itself.

She is pushing the limits to see if you will break. If you obtain a civil divorce, she “wins,” though you both really lose.

Read Hosea (the prophet in the OT). He never left his wife and took her back whenever she strayed (like your wife is doing). Neither should you divorce her (BTW - allowing her to divorce you is a separate question).

For the money issues, perhaps she should have a separate bank account so she can know she has “her” money aside from the common account.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

All right then, what do I do if she insists on going to New York with her “friend”? She may not be in love with him, but it’s still inappropriate.

Hi tucdoc, I’m trying to do some brainstorming here. I didn’t read every post in the thread, sorry if some ideas I present, in my ignorance, are off the table.

I start with the most unpleasant one, how about joining, this one time only, your wife to New York? Make a hotel reservation, for a room or suite for your wife and yourself. Would your wife agree to that? Then, you would go to the game and attend it with your wife and her “friend(s)”. I know it’s crazy, humiliating, but you could do it one time only, and this is what you would profit: your wife’s “friends” could be cynical home-wreckers or maybe some more benevolent “moonbats” who believe the cr*pola that you ignore your wife and she needs company to survive her harsh life with you. You could feel out what’s the real situation. If they are the malicious cynical type, you can’t get them on your side, but at least you will know who they are. If, on the contrary, they have some level of decency left in them, you could even take them aside for a few words in the absence of your wife, and tell them how much you love your wife, and how disturbed you feel about the ongoing scandal of your wife socializing with them in your absence. They may even see the light, that your wife doesn’t have, after all, such a terrible husband, and that their very presence on the scene is wreaking havoc on a couple’s marriage.

Would your wife agree to go with you to New York, to this game? (Sorry, I didn’t read all posts, but will try to catch up) I think that’s where I would draw the line - if she would agree to come with me, and share the same hotel accommodation with me (perhaps also take the kids, why not?), I would go with her. Btw, her “friends” might get a healthy reality check, too, from seeing her show up with her family - husband and kids and all.

If, on the other hand, she insists not to have you there, while she travels to have some fun with her “friend(s)”, that’s a different situation. In that case, I think I would do something more serious, and fully warn her and inform her well in advance. I would probably tell her that I’m going to separate from her, if she is going to do that. Not necessarily jump to divorce, but separation. Of course the logistics of separation has to be worked out.