Wife has given up

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You must demand that she never see this male friend again. She will of course have a temper tantrum. She is acting like a teenager all ready so this shouldn’t be too tough to get through. If you have to do it expose it to everyone you know and especially the other spouse. They deserve to know the truth.
I think that’s what I would also do. Seeing how the other guy is married, is a player, one who disrespects his own wife, and disrespects tucdoc and his wife by going after tucdoc’s wife, talking to the other guy is probably useless - I mean useless trying to persuade him, by appealing to a system of values he doesn’t share. Still, Tucdoc, you can tell the other guy to get lost, and contact the guy’s wife to tell her what’s going on.

And I would demand my wife, not to see that guy again, even if she would throw a tantrum.

Maybe take her to New York, even if it’s expensive? Marriage therapy is expensive, too. 😊
 
She is insisting on going to New York with her friend, she doesn’t want to go with me. She says she will file for divorce so that she can go. I bought her the Tiffany bracelet and gave it to her after she said all those things. She cried, remembering how I called her a b**** 5 months ago. She has not gotten over that. I’ve apologized multiple times for insulting her, but also explaining that I was resentful about her being so unhappy, and that she was already starting to talk about these “friends” too much at that time.

I saw my therapist yesterday. She’s given me the number of a family law attorney. At this point I have to protect myself so that I can better take care of my kids. I WANT MY MARRIAGE BACK. I sent my wife a link to a medical website talking about depression and divorce. I’ve asked her repeatedly to get help, but she refuses. I can’t do this by myself anymore.
 
All just my view as usual.
She is insisting on going to New York with her friend, she doesn’t want to go with me. >>>
Hmmm, wadda shocker that one is huh? Still need convincing it’s not about baseball?
<<< She says she will file for divorce so that she can go. >>>
Let HER.
I bought her the Tiffany bracelet and gave it to her after she said all those things. She cried, remembering how I called her a b**** 5 months ago. She has not gotten over that. >>>
Oh yes she has gotten over it and Christians don’t apologize for sin, they ask for forgiveness if I may be a bit preachy. This has nothing to do with you calling her a name for God’s sake.
<<< I saw my therapist yesterday. She’s given me the number of a family law attorney. At this point I have to protect myself so that I can better take care of my kids. I WANT MY MARRIAGE BACK. I sent my wife a link to a medical website talking about depression and divorce. I’ve asked her repeatedly to get help, but she refuses. I can’t do this by myself anymore.
The only thing your wife is depressed about right now is the fact that she has a husband and children complicating her narcissistic pursuit of emotional masturbation. I stand by what I’ve been saying. If you want your marriage back the only chance you have, which I happen to believe is absolutely godly as well, is putting her out of your house (if at all legally possible) and into the hands of the Holy Spirit. You can’t possibly believe that continuing to provide her with a roof and finances is the way to go anymore.
 
The OP has no intention of allowing his wife to take trips with other men, if he can stop it. Nobody is suggesting that he should!
Maybe you didn’t realize it but he ALREADY has let his wife travel with this other man!?!!?

His acting in the manner he has been acting has NOT worked.

I’m suggesting he act differently.

You are free to advise him as you see fit. I shall continue that as well.
 
She is insisting on going to New York with her friend, she doesn’t want to go with me. She says she will file for divorce so that she can go. I bought her the Tiffany bracelet and gave it to her after she said all those things. She cried, remembering how I called her a b**** 5 months ago. She has not gotten over that. I’ve apologized multiple times for insulting her, but also explaining that I was resentful about her being so unhappy, and that she was already starting to talk about these “friends” too much at that time.

I saw my therapist yesterday. She’s given me the number of a family law attorney. At this point I have to protect myself so that I can better take care of my kids. I WANT MY MARRIAGE BACK. I sent my wife a link to a medical website talking about depression and divorce. I’ve asked her repeatedly to get help, but she refuses. I can’t do this by myself anymore.
This is my last post to you tucdoc. I can’t watch this train wreck any longer. It is painful to watch a man being manipulated by his scheming, adulterous wife.

The only thing that will save your marriage is calling this other mans wife.

I second marriagebuilders.com
 
The marriagebuilders.com looks interesting.

I don’t think calling the other guys wife is going to save your marriage. It may just end up making him MORE available to your wife, when/if his wife takes issue with it…

Although, I would want to know what his wife thinks of this. However, I wouldn’t just call her and presume to tell her that her husband is cheating on her with your wife. You still don’t know the details. Other than they plan to go to a game together. Which YOUR WIFE shouldn’t be doing as she KNOWS how it’s effecting her marriage. Not really sure how it’s effecting this guys marriage. We ASSUME not well. But we don’t really know.

Has YOUR wife met HIS? Does HIS wife know they hang out? Does HIS wife have a clue about this trip? And what is YOUR wife’s take on that?

Does she REALLY want to be the OTHER woman? Is it not obvious just how low she feels? Look at how little value she has placed on her self. That getting SOME affection from a man that isn’t even available to her regardless of her availablity is seemingly better than what she gets at home.

She’s made some decisions ALREADY. Now she is creating excuses to validate her decisions.

IF THE GOAL is to save the marriage. You are going to HAVE to keep doing the right thing. Look at that website, and see if you can find ideas that resonate to your situation. If she files for divorce. Drag it out, I guess. Maybe you can get her to change her mind at some point.

At this juncture, I’m a little worried about the children. I live near a couple that has gone through this sort of breakup. She cheated. He told EVERYONE EVERYTHING. I got the low down after a 5 minute introduction. It’s clear that HE was devistated. After running into him at the park several times however, I can see why a normal woman wouldn’t want much to do with him (that’s his situation, not assuming it’s yours) But sadly, I’ve watched their children. The oldest about 9 has clammed up. She went from a very vibrant young lady to obviously depressed.

Quit buying her stuff. Gifts DO NOT buy happiness. Get a budget written up. Get her a credit card with monthly “allowance” so that she CAN’T overspend. I would tell her that since she plans on filing for divorce, you don’t plan on extra spending… as divorce is expensive, and you will need funds to finance your lawyers if she forces the issue.
 
I don’t think calling the other guys wife is going to save your marriage.
Maybe not, but it’s the right thing to do.
Although, I would want to know what his wife thinks of this. However, I wouldn’t just call her and presume to tell her that her husband is cheating on her with your wife. You still don’t know the details. Other than they plan to go to a game together.
AGAIN… in another town… presumably staying in a hotel together.
Which YOUR WIFE shouldn’t be doing as she KNOWS how it’s effecting her marriage.
How bout because it’s an abomination in the sight of the holy most high God?
Not really sure how it’s effecting this guys marriage. We ASSUME not well. But we don’t really know.

Has YOUR wife met HIS? Does HIS wife know they hang out? Does HIS wife have a clue about this trip? And what is YOUR wife’s take on that?
Great questions.
Does she REALLY want to be the OTHER woman? Is it not obvious just how low she feels? Look at how little value she has placed on her self. That getting SOME affection from a man that isn’t even available to her regardless of her availablity is seemingly better than what she gets at home.
Or how high a value she places on herself by being able to steal this wonderful man from his wife and finally get the treatment she thinks she deserves.
She’s made some decisions ALREADY. Now she is creating excuses to validate her decisions.
Absolutely true. All this bunk about baseball and you called you a mean name is exactly that.
IF THE GOAL is to save the marriage. You are going to HAVE to keep doing the right thing.
I would say he has to START doing the right thing which doesn’t include coddling her while she is in open infidelity like this.
Look at that website, and see if you can find ideas that resonate to your situation. If she files for divorce. Drag it out, I guess. Maybe you can get her to change her mind at some point.
I would continue to love her and calmly express my love for her to the bitter very end. I might even take her back after the divorce if by God’s grace I was given that opportunity. What I would not do is allow my children see my passive tolerance of bold persistent unfaithfulness under my roof.
<<< At this juncture, I’m a little worried about the children. >>>
So am I.
Quit buying her stuff. Gifts DO NOT buy happiness.
Absolutely
Get her a credit card
NO WAY. I would tell her to go find somebody else to clothe, feed and house her until she is ready to behave as his wife. Is that loving her like Christ loves the church? You better believe it is. “Whom the Lord He loves He disciplines and He chastens every son whom He receives” (Hebrews 12:6) Paul even tells us in 1 Corinthians 5 that openly rebellious and sinful individuals are to be put out of the church for the destruction of their flesh to bring about repentance. Of course in a marriage, ONLY infidelity or physical abuse would qualify for these measures. He is not helping by enabling her to continue as she is.
I would tell her that since she plans on filing for divorce, you don’t plan on extra spending… as divorce is expensive, and you will need funds to finance your lawyers if she forces the issue.
I agree.
 
I sent a message on the guys Facebook page, asking if he had time to meet in person in the next few days. He informed my wife of this via text, and she was furious. She said he is too busy to meet me and doesn’t want to get involved in our marriage problems. I told her he IS part of the marriage problems. She continue to insist they are just friends. She swears she will be filing for divorce. I need to be prepared.
 
I sent a message on the guys Facebook page, asking if he had time to meet in person in the next few days. He informed my wife of this via text, and she was furious. She said he is too busy to meet me and doesn’t want to get involved in our marriage problems. I told her he IS part of the marriage problems. She continue to insist they are just friends. She swears she will be filing for divorce. I need to be prepared.
I don’t need to tell you you have serious problems my friend. Prayer, prayer and more prayer. This guy will never know how blessed he is to not have pulled this on someone like I was 25 years ago. He’d be eating through a straw for 6 weeks.

You are being spat upon from both sides here which should be no part of the motivation for what you do next. However, lemme guess, she expects to live in that house while she divorces you? Or for YOU to leave? Your children may not understand right now, but they will as they mature. They will view you as a milquetoast of the most disdainful variety if they do not see you take action on this. Let her go stay with her friend and his wife, if not, somebody else or a shelter would be even better.

Not for revenge!!! But so she can appreciate if nothing else at this point that you HAVE been her provider. The minute she were to commit to working on that marriage I’d pick her up wherever she is, give her a tearful hug and lay down the law. YES THE LAW, you are the prophet, priest and king of that home before your creator regardless of what the post modern feminists think and I’d be on my face before the throne of grace begging the Lord Jesus to teach me how to love her back to Him which is the only possibility of long term victory.

I don’t even know you people, but this is killin me. I had to get up and walk around in prayer for a minute I was so angry at this lowlife. Wadda ^#%$#&@ coward!!!:mad: (I don’t use the language I was tempted to use) You still should track down his wife. You can find her. I know I could.
 
I sent a message on the guys Facebook page, asking if he had time to meet in person in the next few days. He informed my wife of this via text, and she was furious. She said he is too busy to meet me and doesn’t want to get involved in our marriage problems. I told her he IS part of the marriage problems. She continue to insist they are just friends. She swears she will be filing for divorce. I need to be prepared.
Wow. This guy is a winner…runs to your wife via text after you write on his Facebook page? It all sounds like a bad high school drama.

Tucdoc, I feel sad for you all the way around. I have no advice to give anymore. I only have my prayers to offer.

If your wife does file for divorce and it goes through? Well, I believe the shine on her “friend” will dull rather quickly. Have you asked your wife what she expects will happen should you two divorce? Is this man preparing to leave HIS wife for her? I kinda doubt it myself and suspect your wife will be dropped once she’s no longer “forbidden fruit.” So, sadly, she will have given up her husband and family for what…baseball games and some jackass who played her? She could wind up alone and regretting this for the rest of her life. It’s a poor trade but there’s not a lot you can do if she’s hell bent on being stupid.

God’s blessings on you and your family, Tucdoc. You remain in my prayers.
 
I went to confession yesterday, admitting my mistakes, but informing the priest that my wife refuses to forgive me. He also was cynical about the “friends” long-term appeal. I’ve been telling my wife I can’t control her, but it was good to hear him tell me the same thing. He also advised me to protect myself (legally).

Last night my wife was asking if we can be roommates to raise our kids. I insisted on a marriage if we live in the same house, which is based on love and respect. She is afraid of the consequences of divorce, both on her and the kids. Yet, she doesn’t feel she can love me again. I told her she has a very naive view on love. She got the book “For Better, the Science of a Good Marriage”. There is a discussion in it on the various types of love. I advised her to read the book. Unfortunately, she has a bad habit of not always finishing what she starts.
 
<<< She could wind up alone and regretting this for the rest of her life. It’s a poor trade but there’s not a lot you can do if she’s hell bent on being stupid. >>>
Yeah how bout this guy huh? He has time to spend with the man’s wife, including outta town trips, but no time to speak to the man who’s family he is directly involved in destroying. These 2 deserve each other. I said the following a few pages back.
Ya know what’s really heartbreaking? People like this always end up alone and not having been satisfied with destroying themselves they leave a wake wreckage in their path as well.
 
Last night my wife was asking if we can be roommates to raise our kids.
Tucdoc, what does your wife mean by being roommates? Being roommates could mean different things.

If the one taboo that should never be crossed (having “friends” of opposite sex, dating other men, etc) is being respected, this roommate thing could be a form of life in which you could eventually rebuild your relationship to each other, taking it slowly and without pressure. Being roommates is better than divorce. You could agree to the roommate thing, while secretly aiming for re-conquering your wife’s heart (hey, you don’t have to always tell everything - don’t tell her that when you say roommate, you really mean that you are going to try to make her fall in love with you once again ;)).

There’s one thing that this roommate business cannot include, ever: either one of you having other sweethearts, or shall we say “friends”. That would be insane, heartless, cruel, worse than a madhouse. You can make that a condition of agreeing to be roommates.
 
Did the guy reply to you yet? Perhaps he thought you were going to confront him and harm him - who knows what your wife has told him…

I doubt the roommate thing would work, Joseph, since she won’t abide by the ‘no friends of opposite sex’ as a roommate.

I wouldn’t want that either tucdoc. All the benefits of marriage for her, with none of the work or costs. Pfft.

Back to my CBT experiences - telling yourself you can’t do something ensures you won’t be able to. In effect, she is reinforcing her idea to herself that she can never love you by repeatedly mentioning it. It’s probably a mantra in her head.

As they used to say on Star Trek… ‘brace for impact’.
 
He never replied to me. My wife is still insisting that they are “just friends” and doesn’t accept that she is having an emotional affair. So I asked her to stop talking about him and stop texting him.

I will be contacting a lawyer this week, just to go over my options, even if she doesn’t file. I will ask if I can legally kick her out of the house, as has been suggested.
 
I sent a message on the guys Facebook page, asking if he had time to meet in person in the next few days. He informed my wife of this via text, and she was furious. She said he is too busy to meet me and doesn’t want to get involved in our marriage problems. I told her he IS part of the marriage problems. She continue to insist they are just friends. She swears she will be filing for divorce. I need to be prepared.
He never replied to me. My wife is still insisting that they are “just friends” and doesn’t accept that she is having an emotional affair. So I asked her to stop talking about him and stop texting him.

I will be contacting a lawyer this week, just to go over my options, even if she doesn’t file. I will ask if I can legally kick her out of the house, as has been suggested.
Oh, boy.

When you contact an innocent friend of your spouse and say you want to talk to them, they assume you want their help in arranging a surprise birthday party for your wife. Maybe, if your spouse has been acting strangely, they are concerned that your spouse might be in some kind of emotional distress, and that you need their help. They will, at the very least, ask the nature of what you want to talk about. They do not ignore you and notify your spouse.

Also, people do not normally feel a need to seek “permission” to contact innocent friends of their spouses. Neither do people with nothing to hide fly into a rage when a spouse e-mails one of their friends.

IOW, both your wife and her friend are acting exactly as you would expect illicit lovers to act. Not a big surprise, alas. They are either lying to you or–and this is the most charitable thought I can come up with–lying to themselves about their relationship. That, or your wife has convinced this friend that you are a manipulating abuser of some kind. That’s just about as bad.

Let’s just say that you have no room to keep up so much as the pretense of believing that even they believe their relationship to be innocent. Maybe on an intellectual level, but not deep down. Your direct contact with him forced their hand, and they’ve both blown it. If you ever had a chance of using that pretense in your own favor–and it was a longshot–that is long gone. Goodbye to “I believe you when you say there is nothing.” That man reacted as if you are your wife’s enemy. While I suppose it is remotely possible in some universe that they have a friendship that isn’t a threat to your marriage, it isn’t a reasonable possibility.

Empty your schedule for Monday. Call around, and find who is the best attorney for representing men in divorces and family court that you can get. Call him (or in your case, it is very likely to be a her) immediately. Get the first appointment you can get. In the meantime, ask if there is any ground rules you need to know in order to keep from being cleaned out and having your children taken away.

There are cases where contacting your own legal counsel will exacerbate a bad marital situation, but your case I think that giving her a free shot at your bank account will only encourage her self-centered lunacy. If your wife figures out how to get your money and the kids, she will leave you and never look back. If she finds she can’t do that, I suppose there is some shred of hope. I don’t know, though. She sounds like she’s going to burn every bridge she can find with you, and then blow up the ashes for good measure, before she can give herself a chance to change her own mind.

IOW, I think that the best you can do at this point is to guard your ability to be a father to and a provider for your children. Except for not provoking her with any blatantly uncharitable treatment–I hope you’ll never call another woman a b**** for any reason, ever again, nor indulge in the temptation to heap blame or accusations on the mother of your children–I don’t think there is much you can do. She’ll either come around and ask about the overtures you have already made, or she won’t. I don’t think you have any other cards left to play.

You are in the path of a hurricane. Pray for a miracle, but in the meantime, get out the plywood and nail the place down. You don’t have any time to lose, and both you and your children are in the path of this thing. It is not the time for regrets over what you might have done in the past, but the time for level-headed action.

I’m so so sorry. I wish I could think of a message with more hope. The only thing I can think of is this: I’m not a professional and I don’t know you or your wife. Find those who are, and who do. Make sure one of them is a priest. If they, collectively, have hope to offer, listen to them. If they don’t, though, listen to them, anyway.
 
I went to confession yesterday, admitting my mistakes, but informing the priest that my wife refuses to forgive me. He also was cynical about the “friends” long-term appeal. I’ve been telling my wife I can’t control her, but it was good to hear him tell me the same thing. He also advised me to protect myself (legally).

Last night my wife was asking if we can be roommates to raise our kids. I insisted on a marriage if we live in the same house, which is based on love and respect. She is afraid of the consequences of divorce, both on her and the kids. Yet, she doesn’t feel she can love me again. I told her she has a very naive view on love. She got the book “For Better, the Science of a Good Marriage”. There is a discussion in it on the various types of love. I advised her to read the book. Unfortunately, she has a bad habit of not always finishing what she starts.
Your confessor, in telling you to protect yourself, also has your kids in mind.

Your wife seems to want an arrangement like King Edward VII had with his wife, Queen Alexandra. He had over 50 laisons with women other than his wife. He denied physical adultery, and it was never proven, although at least one of the women, Giulia Barucci, was a prostitute. You can tell her that even among the royals, men don’t usually go for that kind of thing. Certainly no one outside the household buys into the pretense that it is all innocent.

Count your children in that group. Your wife is not proposing a healthy upbringing for them.
 
Last night my wife was asking if we can be roommates to raise our kids. I insisted on a marriage if we live in the same house, which is based on love and respect.
Absolutely. Like I said, she wants your resources, but not you. No way. That would never happen with me.
He never replied to me. My wife is still insisting that they are “just friends” and doesn’t accept that she is having an emotional affair. So I asked her to stop talking about him and stop texting him.
Very plowed ground already.
I will be contacting a lawyer this week, just to go over my options, even if she doesn’t file. I will ask if I can legally kick her out of the house, as has been suggested.
Tell him everything. I mean EVERYTHING. If you don’t, it will come out later and make you look like a deceiver. Also though, be sure to emphasize the refusal of sex, yes that matters legally. It’s constructive abandonment. The time with other men, including out of town trips and the fact that you DO NOT want your marriage to end. If it were me (I know it isn’t) I would ask him flat out how I could be legally released from financing my wife’s infidelity… in those terms.

Don’t ask me why, but I’m not hearing the fat lady on your family yet. I still think your marriage is savable. Lay your heart on the altar of God as a living sacrifice and remember how Christ loves His body. I’ll go first. He did not love me because I was lovable.
 
Tucdoc, what does your wife mean by being roommates? Being roommates could mean different things.

If the one taboo that should never be crossed (having “friends” of opposite sex, dating other men, etc) is being respected, this roommate thing could be a form of life in which you could eventually rebuild your relationship to each other, taking it slowly and without pressure.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There’s one thing that this roommate business cannot include, ever: either one of you having other sweethearts, or shall we say “friends”. That would be insane, heartless, cruel, worse than a madhouse. You can make that a condition of agreeing to be roommates.
I think I could go along with this.:hmmm: IF IF IF she really were to put away her shenanigans with other men. That would be the LAW OF GOD on stone tablets which it goes without saying would be for you too. In fact I would go so far as to say that if she did do that I would take her to some baseball games (if she even really loves baseball as much as she says).
<<< There are cases where contacting your own legal counsel will exacerbate a bad marital situation, but your case I think that giving her a free shot at your bank account will only encourage her self-centered lunacy. If your wife figures out how to get your money and the kids, she will leave you and never look back. If she finds she can’t do that, I suppose there is some shred of hope. I don’t know, though. She sounds like she’s going to burn every bridge she can find with you, and then blow up the ashes for good measure, before she can give herself a chance to change her own mind. >>>
You could be right, but I don’t think she hates him like this. I think she’s afraid of adulthood with all of it’s troubles and conflicts and grown up problem solving. He represents responsibility and accountability. The other man represents hippified freedom (false though it is).

I’m still not giving up on these two, but he does need to play hardball with her for now, no pun intended.

Oh yeah, for the record I never suggested contacting the other man and wouldn’t have. It was the wife of the other man though I see no tragedy in what’s happened here. She’s in a panic which could actually be good.
 
You could be right, but I don’t think she hates him like this. I think she’s afraid of adulthood with all of it’s troubles and conflicts and grown up problem solving. He represents responsibility and accountability. The other man represents hippified freedom (false though it is).

I’m still not giving up on these two, but he does need to play hardball with her for now, no pun intended.

Oh yeah, for the record I never suggested contacting the other man and wouldn’t have. It was the wife of the other man though I see no tragedy in what’s happened here. She’s in a panic which could actually be good.
I don’t mean that she hates him. I mean that she’s resisting anything that might soften her towards him or get him into her actual social circle. She keeps saying things that seem calculated to alienate him, on top of that. She’s not even pretending that there is relationship with her husband, in spite of his overtures, or that she ought to have an interest in having one. As you imply, that means giving up the fantasy she’s living in. She doesn’t want that to happen.

As far as whether it would have been better not to contact the guy, that is water under the bridge. Certainly, when the wife insisted that they were “friends, but just friends”, she should have assumed her husband would consider it a relationship from which he was not excluded. I can see what you’re saying, but at the same time, the only reason we’re not surprised at the fall-out was because we didn’t really believe her official line. Can she blame her husband for deciding to take her words at face value?

Even Queen Alexandra was allowed to be at any social event with her husband that she cared to attend…or that was the official party line. That was her perogative; her husband wasn’t Henry the Eighth!
 
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