Wife has given up

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Tucdoc,

Whereever you live, make it your kids home too. Have them help move in, set up their own room/spaces. Let them choose things they want to keep there. It needs to be someplace they live, not someplace they visit. My ex’s biggest screw-up was telling the kids it was their home- my daughter even talked about having two homes now- and then acting the opposite. I would advise getting a place where you can handle full time custody if your ex-wife startst having trouble living up to her obligations towards the kids, ends up asking you to take them more and more, you may end up getting full custody by default.

Do not ever let your kids think they are an inconvenience.
All what you wrote is good. My kids used to come into my room at night and lie on my bed to talk. They still do it occasionally. My daughter will take naps on my bed. I asked them once if they ever did that on their dad’s bed. They both indignantly replied “NO, we don’t even go in there, his wife sleeps in there!”
 
TucDoc,

at 11 and 13, your children do have a say in their living arrangements. Make sure their wishes are taken into account in your mediation. I don’t recall you ever saying with whom they prefer to live, just their reactions. Make sure wherever you end up would accommodate them, too. There is a strong likelihood that next baseball season they would end up “baseball orphans” if your wife’s underlying issues are not addressed.
 
We had our first divorce mediation meeting yesterday and discussed the parenting schedule, including holidays. It’s starting to sink in, I’m really getting a divorce. I tried one last time to convince her to reconcile the night before, but she say she is too hurt and is not interested. Only a miracle will change our course now, a miracle which would include her acknowledging the inappropriateness of her baseball “friends”. Maybe this will happen after the divorce. Several divorcees at work have predicted she will change her mind and want to come back after a year. I’m not going to assume anything, just go through the process as amicably as possible. I don’t have a strong desire to move out yet, but I get upset thinking about how she has emotionally withdrawn from me and is not interested in saving the marriage. I can’t stay in this loveless, sexless marriage. She wants out, so I’m not standing in her way anymore.
 
Tucdoc,

Sending prayers to you and your family. I have read this thread and I hear the pain, despair, and so much more.

I know you are needing guidance, support, insight, whatever. But can I give you a different POV?

Your sharing in such detail the things going on in your relationship with marriage can also be seen as gossip, or a betrayal of that relationship.
You wife has being, by the accounts you have related here, being doing that with her friends. In a similar vein I think you are doing that here at CAF.

Even though she refuses counseling, you can go to therapy on your own and learn what part of the deterioration of you relationship you are responsible for.

A healthy relationship isnt just about love, forgiveness etc etc. it’s about trust.

It sounds like you both no longer trust each other for different reasons.

God Bless. 👍
But you may want to really reconsider just how much detail you want to share here. We arent professionals who can help you see the bigger picture and unravel what happened.

I was just getting the sense from this thread that there was a tendency to calumny and gossip going on here with a woman none of personal know except you. That made me very uncomfortable…

Again God Bless your family. I know you are in a lot of pain and grief over the death of the relationship and marriage with your wife.
 
Actually, I might worry more about “all the divorcees” at work… Is there anyone in your lives that don’t know what’s going on and doesn’t think your wife is nutz? Whether she is or isn’t… well, I guess it’s now for EVERYONE to decide.

Does she have anyone to talk to… besides the baseball guys? Can she show up at your place of employement without being stared at and discussed? This is concerning…

I do hope something improves…
 
(Oppps…My apologizes TucDoc, I just saw your post about your therapist. Glad you are seeking professional help for your own mental health. God Bless. 👍 )
 
The purpose isn’t to gossip, the purpose is to get insight. The more people I talk to, the more I’m understanding this process. I spoke to two women who went through something similar, one did leave her husband, the other reunited after a 1 years separation. It seem that an existential/midlife crisis can occur, despite a comfortable and secure lifestyle. Also, little signs of affection, not necessarily intimacy per se, appear to be crucial in keeping love alive. This part is true, I was not aware of these subtle acts were so necessary, and admit that I did not do them. Is this enough reason to leave a marriage? I know of marriage ending at the empty nest stage, when couples realize there is not much left in a supposedly lifetime relationship. So, if it happens a few years early, that at least allows me a better opportunity to start over.
 
Yes. You can’t make her do anything, but you do not have to act as if whatever she does is acceptable, no matter what she does. You are not bound to support her in that way; in fact, I’m not sure it wouldn’t be enabling rather than support if you did. Giving support to unacceptable behavior is not what fidelity means, even if you were to feel rather sure that her culpability for the behavior is limited.

People who are committing bad acts without culpability still deserve help in avoiding the bad acts. Their victims still deserve to insist that the offending behavior stop. The only thing that changes with the realization of why someone does something is what you choose as the best way to stop the offending behavior while loving the person. After all, didn’t Jesus ask the guard who struck him: “If I have spoken wrongly, testify to the wrong; but if I have spoken rightly, why do you strike me?” (John 18:23) He wasn’t looking to get beaten up. His whole intention was to be faithful as the Truth that the Father sent into the world.

You are right to refuse to tolerate behavior that is injurious or offensive to your marriage, whether or not the offending person is culpable. Patience is a good thing, but that isn’t the same as being permissive. You are right to refuse any request for that. Do not listen to guilt-trips to the contrary.
Very good indeed. I also would never be the one to willingly move out of that house, but obviously I can’t tell him what to do. Her misery is just beginning. If he lets her share it with him. All is truly lost for this family as a family.

Prayer will continue. The Jesus I know brings the dead to life. That includes marriages.
 
The purpose isn’t to gossip, the purpose is to get insight. The more people I talk to, the more I’m understanding this process. I spoke to two women who went through something similar, one did leave her husband, the other reunited after a 1 years separation. It seem that an existential/midlife crisis can occur, despite a comfortable and secure lifestyle. Also, little signs of affection, not necessarily intimacy per se, appear to be crucial in keeping love alive. This part is true, I was not aware of these subtle acts were so necessary, and admit that I did not do them. Is this enough reason to leave a marriage? I know of marriage ending at the empty nest stage, when couples realize there is not much left in a supposedly lifetime relationship. So, if it happens a few years early, that at least allows me a better opportunity to start over.
This could easily be what you’re looking at. In-person onversations with these real women with real experience whom you know could tell you things none of us ever could.
 
Your sharing in such detail the things going on in your relationship with marriage can also be seen as gossip, or a betrayal of that relationship.
You wife has being, by the accounts you have related here, being doing that with her friends. In a similar vein I think you are doing that here at CAF…

I was just getting the sense from this thread that there was a tendency to calumny and gossip going on here with a woman none of personal know except you. That made me very uncomfortable…
According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, calumny is “1) a misrepresentation intended to harm another’s reputation. 2) the act of uttering false charges or misrepresentations maliciously calculated to harm another’s reputation.” Gossip is very similar in its definition.
 
PeacefulFamily, thank you for your encouragement and your prayers.

We have met with the divorce mediator twice. We discussed asset allocation last time. The reality of how difficult it will be to maintain the house is finally settling in with my wife. Although the mortgage is paid off, the monthly expense of running this house is like a mortgage. She was asked to come up with a budget as a basis to request alimony. For years I’ve asked that we come up with a budget, and she always refused. It is unfortunate that now, as we divorce, she has to do this. Like many marriages, money problems are a big cause of our conflicts. I know that in marriage counseling how couples approach money problems is discussed. She is still not interested, so she is going to have to make some tough choices: less money now or less alimony later.

I am really struggling with having to move out of the house. This week my office manager had to calm me down before I started seeing patients. One couple even prayed with me after I was done with the appointment with the wife as they could tell I was not well. I have started some meds to help pull me through. Everybody says that I be O.K., that everybody who goes through this eventually heals. Still, I see only misery in the short-term. But, I know I can’t make my wife stay. I’ve been reading James Dobson’s book Love Must Be Tough. It is a mighty task, letting go of someone you love. But I know it has to be done if there is any hope to save the marriage.
 
I am really struggling with having to move out of the house. This week my office manager had to calm me down before I started seeing patients. One couple even prayed with me after I was done with the appointment with the wife as they could tell I was not well. I have started some meds to help pull me through. Everybody says that I be O.K., that everybody who goes through this eventually heals. Still, I see only misery in the short-term. But, I know I can’t make my wife stay. I’ve been reading James Dobson’s book Love Must Be Tough. It is a mighty task, letting go of someone you love. But I know it has to be done if there is any hope to save the marriage.
I know I’m coming into this story late, but I just wanted to share some encouragement. Life does go on after divorce! Your wife and yourself might end up being good friends after everything has settled and your children will still adore you and their mother if you both remain good parents (I’m sure you will).

While I’m not yet married myself, I have two good friends who are older and the husband went through the divorce process. The ex-wife clearly dominated him and the new wife (my friend) is very different towards him. He also has 3 kids: one son and two twin girls with the ex wife. He wrote a book about his life experience that you might find interesting to read: jesttokill.com/divorceddad . But he too wonders what life would be like without his ex and how he would raise his children. They’re all doing fine— if not better because of the divorce.

But yes, you have to go through the painful process of discussing how to break up what you two own, what you two built together over the marriage and that will be painful. Make sure you talk to others— a priest, good friends, us here at Catholic Answers— I know how helpful just talking about something and getting it out there can be beneficial to a person’s sanity.

And of course, PRAY. As a teacher, I find myself frazzled and stressed by the time I’m almost at my job— I love teaching, but I’m worried I’m not doing the very best I can be. I found myself (this week actually) getting into the habit of praying before I get to work: three Hail Marys, one Our Father, one Glory Be, and one Oh my Jesus. It’s amazing how something so simple like prayer can be so very powerful in our lives. And if you don’t already, carry a Rosary with you (keep it in a pocket). I keep one in my teacher bag so if I’m really stressed out I can always pull it out and pray— I’m not sure if you have a dedication to the Rosary, but our Mother brings such blissful peace to me while I’m praying it.

Blessings to you while you start this new journey— you are not alone by any means!
 
Tucdoc, just lending my prayers for your intentions today as I say my rosary and attend Mass. I will also pray that your wife understands that you really want to honor your marriage vows.
 
{snip}I’ve been reading James Dobson’s book Love Must Be Tough. It is a mighty task, letting go of someone you love. But I know it has to be done if there is any hope to save the marriage.
Great reading choice. 👍

This book will help you feel less guilty about “not having done enough” to save the marriage.
 
PeacefulFamily, thank you for your encouragement and your prayers.

We have met with the divorce mediator twice. We discussed asset allocation last time. The reality of how difficult it will be to maintain the house is finally settling in with my wife. Although the mortgage is paid off, the monthly expense of running this house is like a mortgage. She was asked to come up with a budget as a basis to request alimony. For years I’ve asked that we come up with a budget, and she always refused. It is unfortunate that now, as we divorce, she has to do this. Like many marriages, money problems are a big cause of our conflicts. I know that in marriage counseling how couples approach money problems is discussed. She is still not interested, so she is going to have to make some tough choices: less money now or less alimony later.

I am really struggling with having to move out of the house. This week my office manager had to calm me down before I started seeing patients. One couple even prayed with me after I was done with the appointment with the wife as they could tell I was not well. I have started some meds to help pull me through. Everybody says that I be O.K., that everybody who goes through this eventually heals. Still, I see only misery in the short-term. But, I know I can’t make my wife stay. I’ve been reading James Dobson’s book Love Must Be Tough. It is a mighty task, letting go of someone you love. But I know it has to be done if there is any hope to save the marriage.
As you discuss allocation of assets, be sure your attorney sees to it that you can maintain a home that is as fully hospitable to the needs of your children as your wife can. I don’t mean with regards to luxury. I mean that you need to be ready, willing, and able to give your kids a full-time home at a moment’s notice. If they see when they visit you that you desire to have them for as much time as you possibly can, that you are even looking primarily for a home that is more convenient to their school and activities than to your work, it will make a big difference in your relationship with them. Don’t hesitate to advocate for that with all of your might.
 
Tucdoc-

Still praying for you. I don’t know if you work out. It really helps me- my kids notice if I have to skip two days. You can also say 2-3 rosaries on a run or while on the elliptical/treadmill/bike. (although I cant pray while swimming). Exercise has many of the same effects as anti-depressants. You will need to take care of yourself to be there for your kids, deal with the wife and be ready to take her back should the circumstances change.

Fight the temptation to keep doing things for her, no need to be rude but if she chooses separation she needs to deal with what that means. You cant enable her by giving her the best of both worlds- allow her to appreciate what she loses by doing this. That may help her to come back into the marriage.

It will be hard, but its harder when you dwell on the negative, when you focus on your loss and gaps. I know it sounds trite- but look at the positives. Health, close to kids, good music, a comedy, ability to see, calling your kids every night. Whatever you can find.

Sometimes when I get down I remember some good folks I knew who died before ever having anything close to what I have had. they never were married, never had kids so never knew the joy of being married or holding their children. We owe it to our dead to live as well as we can. Don’t give up, don’t live in the past, keep your heart open to options in the future- like your wife changing her mind.
 
I am praying that if absolutely nothing else, the risen exalted Lord Jesus will teach you reliance on His unfailing faithful power and grace through all this. If not then it truly is a total loss. Or, you could just take some pills.
 
I am praying that if absolutely nothing else, the risen exalted Lord Jesus will teach you reliance on His unfailing faithful power and grace through all this. If not then it truly is a total loss. Or, you could just take some pills.
Relying totally on Our Lord and taking medications are not mutually exclusive. God gave us brains for a reason. Christ is the ultimate healer. As members of the Body of Christ, we Christians can bring His healing presence to others by offering medications when needed. Do you reject all medications, vitamin supplements, and medical treatment? Is a reliance on medication somehow a rejection of Our Lord?

Oh, but perhaps you think mental health issues are different. Emotional and mental anguish can have severe physical consequences. Among other things it can upset a person’s brain chemistry, and meds can help significantly with that. TucDoc said, “This week my office manager had to calm me down before I started seeing patients. One couple even prayed with me after I was done with the appointment with the wife as they could tell I was not well. I have started some meds to help pull me through.” He’s on the edge of a nervous breakdown. He needs some meds for the short-term, just to cope. Maybe it seems that if he relied on Our Lord more, he wouldn’t need the meds. Why can’t our Lord heal him through medication? God’s power is unlimited; He can certainly use medication to help someone’s mind and heart heal. TucDoc IS relying on God. He is humble enough to admit he needs God’s help, and medication, to help him cope.

Perhaps you’re irritated that it appears that TucDoc is giving up. God can still change hearts. Instead of criticizing TucDoc, perhaps you could pray for him and his wife more. All hope is NOT lost. God can do ANYTHING, including bringing something good out of a very bad situation.
 
PeacefulFamily wrote:
Relying totally on Our Lord and taking medications are not mutually exclusive. >>>
Yes they are unless there is a medically quantifiable physical malady in which one can be returned to normal by non mood altering
PeacefulFamily wrote:
Perhaps you’re irritated that it appears that TucDoc is giving up. God can still change hearts. Instead of criticizing TucDoc, perhaps you could pray for him and his wife more. All hope is NOT lost. God can do ANYTHING, including bringing something good out of a very bad situation.
If I thought you had actually read most of this thread this would be insulting. Nobody, and I do mean NOBODY here has held out hope for Tucdoc and his family more than I have. I wasn’t criticizing him. I was criticizing his being advised to sedate himself to “help him cope” by someone claiming to believe the God who has already counted every snowflake in this coming winter. Trust me friend. I am no armchair forum counselor. I practice what I preach and I cry out to the Lord on this man’s behalf on a regular basis. That’s not just something I say on the Internet because it sounds good. I know their pain first hand and I have shed tears beseeching the most high God that He display His triumphant might in their midst thereby glorifying Himself through their victory.

Aggravated she says?:tsktsk:

If it makes any difference I agree with you that the idea that he’s been gossiping is just false. He’s hurting and confused. His attitude has simply reflected that.
 
I appreciate everyones concern, and I realize that different people have different approaches. Ultimately, it is about doing God’s will. I feel God’s will is reflected in Dr. Dobson’s book Love Must Be Tough, that I cannot keep my wife in our marriage against her will. At the same time, I continue to encourage her to seek counseling, both for us and for herself.

We have another meeting with the divorce mediator tonight. She was supposed to fill out a budget sheet as a basis for alimony, but she hasn’t completed it yet. Her lifestyle will be severely affected by a divorce. Yet, she is still talking about going to baseball games next year. My therapist gave me a small card with the Divine Mercy depicted, with the caption “Jesus, I Trust in You!” I need to keep my focus on Him, realizing that He will help me through this, whatever the outcome. If I do God’s will, everything will eventually work out, regardless of how difficult the process.

Please continue your prayers.
 
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