Wife has given up

[Tiribulus]

Qui es ce, thank for the daily prayer.

Tiribulus, I want to reflect God in our marriage to my wife. I no longer plead or beg for her to come back. Even this AM, I told her I don’t want this divorce, that we could make the marriage work, but only if she wanted to. I acknowledged that she is angry and hurt, but I explained that I never intended to hurt her with what I said or did. She claims that I don’t care for her, but I replied that just because I don’t give her everything she want when she wants doesn’t mean I don’t care. She usually get everything she wants eventually, not immediately, so she needs to understand this will continue in the marriage.

I am more at peace with the possibility of divorce. Many have told me that I’ll be O.K., so the apprehension is less. Yes, God’s ways are not my ways. Maybe this is what He intends. Maybe losing half my possession (house, retirement, bank accounts) is a way of entering the Kingdom of Heaven. My wife will certainly feel the pain of living on a fixed budget >>>

Listen my friend. I am aching for a mighty God glorifying work of reconciliation in your family for reasons I have no explanation for beyond His so burdening me. Anything I say is motivated only by that.

The point I’m making is that it’s no longer about what you say to her or any pro-action on your part. She is not open to receiving from you. Be godly of course and tell her you love her… judiciously, but you will not have that one right conversation or even series of conversations that turns her heart.

She needs to SEE you full of HIM. What does that look like? A jump in your step. A look of confident peace on your face. A soft unpretentious song of praise on your lips. A gentle, but strong answer to every question. A spirit of the manly peacemaker during every confrontation. Giving deference when wise and standing gracious, but firm when necessary. NEVER EVER striking out, retaliating or engaging in a wrangling defense of yourself against accusations about the past or that you know not to be true.

Nobody can manufacture that and even if you could she’d know. This comes from putting off the old man born in father Adam and feeding the new man born again into Christ Jesus. That means spending significant meaningful time with Him… by yourself… and allowing Him to build in you a character that not even you knew was possible. Tell Him. Out loud that you have no idea how to handle all this. He knows that anyway.

Ask Him to teach you to love Him more than you love your wife or your kids or yourself and that in so doing He will also teach you how to love that woman like He loved His church and gave Himself for her. That will hurt even more than you’re hurting now. When you begin to see her as a crying lonely child entrusted to your care by Him and you begin to long to be that shoulder she can cry on. The arms she can run to and strong support that she can utterly rely on. It will tear your heart as He shows you what a miserable failure you’ve been at all of that but it can bear fruit unfathomable any other way and when you hurt for righteousness sake His comfort is all the sweeter.

I know what I am talking about. The God who knows the position of every atom in His universe was born on this Earth as a helpless child, lived a sinless life and then allowed the very creation that stood guilty before His throne to brutally murder Him so that He could rise again swallowing their death in His victory. He did all that exactly so disastrous life situations just like yours could be used to display His triumphant might and mercy before a dying world.

Trust me. When He brands all that on your soul she will KNOW that you have been beyond the rent veil and into the holy holies. It may even scare her at first, but she will discover a somewhat mysterious newfound respect for you growing in her though she doesn’t even yet know exactly why.

 

[Tiribulus]

WOW, don’t ask me what happened here.

 

[Tiribulus]

Listen my friend. I am aching for a mighty God glorifying work of reconciliation in your family for reasons I have no explanation for beyond His so burdening me. Anything I say is motivated only by that.

The point I’m making is that it’s no longer about what you say to her or any pro-action on your part. She is not open to receiving from you. Be godly of course and tell her you love her… judiciously, but you will not have that one right conversation or even series of conversations that turns her heart.

She needs to SEE you full of HIM. What does that look like? A jump in your step. A look of confident peace on your face. A soft unpretentious song of praise on your lips. A gentle, but strong answer to every question. A spirit of the manly peacemaker during every confrontation. Giving deference when wise and standing gracious, but firm when necessary. NEVER EVER striking out, retaliating or engaging in a wrangling defense of yourself against accusations about the past or that you know not to be true. When you do fall short admit it without her having to pull it out of you, ask her forgiveness and pray for God’s forgiveness in her presence.

Nobody can manufacture that and even if you could she’d know. This comes from putting off the old man born in father Adam and feeding the new man born again into Christ Jesus. That means spending significant meaningful time with Him… by yourself… and allowing Him to build in you a character that not even you knew was possible. Tell Him. Out loud that you have no idea how to handle all this. He knows that anyway.

Ask Him to teach you to love Him more than you love your wife or your kids or yourself and that in so doing He will also teach you how to love that woman like He loved His church and gave Himself for her. That will hurt even more than you’re hurting now. When you begin to see her as a crying lonely child entrusted to your care by Him and you begin to long to be that shoulder she can cry on. The arms she can run to and strong support that she can utterly rely on. It will tear your heart as He shows you what a miserable failure you’ve been at all of that but it can bear fruit unfathomable any other way and when you hurt for righteousness sake His comfort is all the sweeter.

I know what I am talking about. The God who knows the position of every atom in His universe was born on this Earth as a helpless child, lived a sinless life and then allowed the very creation that stood guilty before His throne to brutally murder Him so that He could rise again swallowing their death in His victory. He did all that exactly so disastrous life situations just like yours could be used to display His triumphant might and mercy before a dying world.

Trust me. When He brands all that on your soul she will KNOW that you have been beyond the rent veil and into the holy holies. It may even scare her at first, but she will discover a somewhat mysterious newfound respect for you growing in her though she doesn’t even yet know exactly why.

 

[kbachler]

Yeah… treat her like a child… Make demands… That will bring her around. I’m sure she’ll run right into his arms.

She has filed. They are working this out like adults… by going through a mediator. Have YOU read anything?

It is incredibly foolish to assume she won’t step in to take care of herself. I don’t gather that she is an embecile. She has just never before run the show with regard to earning the income. She may have overspent. But the woman is college educated. She’s making huge decisions. Whether or not in her best interest… Once this divorce is penned, and signed… She will realize that she needs a job. Or she will adjust.

Threats are no way to prove to a woman that claims you don’t love her that you actually do

ETA: How do you MAKE HER? Especially in today’s market? She’s probably going to have a hard time finding a job. Now, maybe Tuc, you can suggest she realize that if she wants to keep her lifestyle, and you only plan on paying XYZ, she should try getting a job now… see if that changes her tune. I doubt it, but it might be worth a try…

No one said anything about making threats, or about treating her like a child. One should treat her with grace and respect. But at the same time give her clear choices with clear consequences.

You’re reading into what I said - I said nothing about HOW to present the choices (as I now have) but I have said that there need to be clear choices.

He should make his actions and choices based on love for his family and carry them out. If she chooses to be part of the family, that’s her choice.

No where in here am I saying to threaten, or to treat her badly.

In my own experience, I asked my wife for years to go to counseling and she refused. Earlier this year I told her that I was unhappy, and could not continue to live this way. I told her it is important to me that she be happier, and that I be happier, and that we work together better, and that I was so unhappy that if we couldn’t get outside help to work on this, then I could no longer stay in the marriage because I found it too painful.

This wasn’t a threat. It was an honest and open expression of feeling. She chose to go even though it was hard for her (she is very private), and I respected her for it. And we are communicating better now. She still has a hard time with counseling and have discussed that with the counselor, but she is glad that she did it.

I think Tucdoc should make a divorce difficult. He should not be contentious, but if he doesn’t want a divorce, then he should say so and stick to it. I don’t know if his state requires that he take the stand and testify that he has agreed to this - but if he doesn’t agree, he should just say no - that he hopes they could both get counseling instead, and list the reasons why. Who knows how the judge would react.

Again, please stop assuming that I’m saying anything about being disrespectful to the wife. I in no way said that. I simply said be clear in the choices and stick to what he says he wants. (Why is divorce being negotiated if he doesn’t want one?)

 

[qui_est_ce]

Listen my friend. I am aching for a mighty God glorifying work of reconciliation in your family for reasons I have no explanation for beyond His so burdening me. Anything I say is motivated only by that.

The point I’m making is that it’s no longer about what you say to her or any pro-action on your part. She is not open to receiving from you. Be godly of course and tell her you love her… judiciously, but you will not have that one right conversation or even series of conversations that turns her heart.

She needs to SEE you full of HIM. What does that look like? A jump in your step. A look of confident peace on your face. A soft unpretentious song of praise on your lips. A gentle, but strong answer to every question. A spirit of the manly peacemaker during every confrontation. Giving deference when wise and standing gracious, but firm when necessary. NEVER EVER striking out, retaliating or engaging in a wrangling defense of yourself against accusations about the past or that you know not to be true.

Nobody can manufacture that and even if you could she’d know. This comes from putting off the old man born in father Adam and feeding the new man born again into Christ Jesus. That means spending significant meaningful time with Him… by yourself… and allowing Him to build in you a character that not even you knew was possible. Tell Him. Out loud that you have no idea how to handle all this. He knows that anyway.

Ask Him to teach you to love Him more than you love your wife or your kids or yourself and that in so doing He will also teach you how to love that woman like He loved His church and gave Himself for her. That will hurt even more than you’re hurting now. When you begin to see her as a crying lonely child entrusted to your care by Him and you begin to long to be that shoulder she can cry on. The arms she can run to and strong support that she can utterly rely on. It will tear your heart as He shows you what a miserable failure you’ve been at all of that but it can bear fruit unfathomable any other way and when you hurt for righteousness sake His comfort is all the sweeter.

I know what I am talking about. The God who knows the position of every atom in His universe was born on this Earth as a helpless child, lived a sinless life and then allowed the very creation that stood guilty before His throne to brutally murder Him so that He could rise again swallowing their death in His victory. He did all that exactly so disastrous life situations just like yours could be used to display His triumphant might and mercy before a dying world.

Trust me. When He brands all that on your soul she will KNOW that you have been beyond the rent veil and into the holy holies. It may even scare her at first, but she will discover a somewhat mysterious newfound respect for you growing in her though she doesn’t even yet know exactly why.

Tiribulus-
What your write is truly beautiful and surely Spirit inspired. One must put all their hope in the Lord.

Unfortunately some people do not like to see the Spirit in another. My ex-husband scoffs it. He has hardened his heart to it. He was once a believer, but no more. He would have to change too much about his life.

 

[tucdoc]

You are all aware of the shooting that occurred here this weekend. That Safeway is OUR market, less than 5 minutes from our home. My wife gets her meds from that pharmacy. It’s sad that not even the loss of life just down the street from us, and the recognition of how short life can be, none of this has changed my wife’s mind about trying to save our marriage.

Tiribulus, you’re right. I pleaded for her to stay most of last year, bargaining the whole time, with no success. Last PM I was honest about what she should expect if we stay married. She won’t get everything she wants whens she wants it, but she will get everything she needs and most of what she wants over time. I will make mistake since I’m not perfect, and she will get upset at times. This is what I have to offer, a less than perfect relationship, but with the insights gained over most of last year. Yes, it is unfortunate that it took the risk of losing the marriage to realize what I had, but that is the situation.

I need to show those qualities you listed. Confidence in me is inconsistent, and my wife knows this. She has told me I go back and forth in accepting her decision to leave the marriage. That is true. I don’t want her to leave, but I will not change my core values to accomadate her (and I told her this last PM). It’s hard to let go, but I know I must, because I don’t want her to stay if she doesn’t want to stay.

 

[kbachler]

You are all aware of the shooting that occurred here this weekend. That Safeway is OUR market, less than 5 minutes from our home. My wife gets her meds from that pharmacy. It’s sad that not even the loss of life just down the street from us, and the recognition of how short life can be, none of this has changed my wife’s mind about trying to save our marriage.

Tiribulus, you’re right. I pleaded for her to stay most of last year, bargaining the whole time, with no success. Last PM I was honest about what she should expect if we stay married. She won’t get everything she wants whens she wants it, but she will get everything she needs and most of what she wants over time. I will make mistake since I’m not perfect, and she will get upset at times. This is what I have to offer, a less than perfect relationship, but with the insights gained over most of last year. Yes, it is unfortunate that it took the risk of losing the marriage to realize what I had, but that is the situation.

I need to show those qualities you listed. Confidence in me is inconsistent, and my wife knows this. She has told me I go back and forth in accepting her decision to leave the marriage. That is true. I don’t want her to leave, but I will not change my core values to accomadate her (and I told her this last PM). It’s hard to let go, but I know I must, because I don’t want her to stay if she doesn’t want to stay.

Yes, but at the same time some promises are deep, and are promises to work on things. As I recall, (and you accept part of the blame) there was no clarity about her unhappiness until “recently.” Where is her responsibility in this, and her responsibility in working on her commitments? Believe me, I understand and appreciate the feelings you describe, but does she understand that the issues are largely within herself, so that leaving without first trying to work on the issues will solve nothing.

But you both own the marriage, you both have a responsibility to do maintenance on it. Recently I told our own counselor that I had begun to see our marriage as a third party - there was me, my wife and our marriage - and that it need to be taken care of in the same way I would be responsible for taking care of our child - and that we had both committed to doing that.

Often that work will - initially - feel quite negative.

I understand you want her to want to stay - was that clear to her? The way you right it above, you sound wishy washy, and she may need to hear that she is important to you and that you are resolute in that. “Being nice and reasonable” may sound very wishy washy.

Given everything you both have invested in this, would one year of combined significant investment in counseling and working on your marriage be such a hardship on either of you?

Peace and best wishes.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I understand you want her to want to stay - was that clear to her? The way you right it above, you sound wishy washy, and she may need to hear that she is important to you and that you are resolute in that. “Being nice and reasonable” may sound very wishy washy.

Given everything you both have invested in this, would one year of combined significant investment in counseling and working on your marriage be such a hardship on either of you?

Peace and best wishes.

Read the thread. He tells her he loves her every single day. He asked her not to divorce every single day. She refuses counseling. He is seeing a counselor.

 

[Tiribulus]

Confidence in me is inconsistent, and my wife knows this. >>>

And there it is. There is what will make the difference if anything. I don’t care what some of these post modern egalitarian neo-feminists around here think. God created men to be MEN and women to be WOMEN. Each completing the other with equally vital, but differing functions. A woman needs a man of strength and certitude. One who will adore her without worshiping her. One who will take true joy in meeting her every need before his own with the knowledge that in so doing she will eagerly be more than all to him that only she can.
A man can be 5ft 4 and 110 pounds, but if he faces life with this attitude?

1st Samuel 17ff-ff For who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should taunt the armies of the living God?” <<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>> "Then David said to the Philistine, “You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have taunted. “This day the LORD will deliver you up into my hands, and I will strike you down and remove your head from you. And I will give the dead bodies of the army of the Philistines this day to the birds of the sky and the wild beasts of the earth, that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel, and that all this assembly may know that the LORD does not deliver by sword or by spear; for the battle is the LORD’S and He will give you into our hands.”

His wife will have a towering champion that she will trust her (and her children’s) life to. She will know who and what he is because he will know who and what he is because he knows who and what God is. Ask God to build in you a spirit like David’s that she can see in your eyes and in your attitude. “NOTHING will cause me to misrepresent my God as anything other than glorious and triumphant”. It’s not even about you or her (ultimately). It’s about jealously exalting His holy name even through this terrible trial. He will change your life forever and if He also saves your marriage He will be equipping you to be all that you formerly weren’t. If not? He will be equipping you for the rest of your life anyway.

 

[kbachler]

Read the thread. He tells her he loves her every single day. He asked her not to divorce every single day. She refuses counseling. He is seeing a counselor.

I have read the thread. He also tells her things that may come across as wishy washy. There are times in dealing with people, even adults, that messages must be kept clear and simple. Telling her he wants her to stay, but that he doesn’t want her to stay if she doesn’t want to stay is a complex message, especially for a woman who sounds emotionally immature with a conflicted perspective.

My point is needs to keep the messages and consequences clear, simple and direct.

 

[tucdoc]

My tone has changed because I am “opening the cage” as Dr. Dobson says in his book Love Must Be Tough. I no longer plead and beg. She can leave if she wants because she has to want to stay in the marriage; otherwise, all this will repeat itself.

Confidence in me comes from knowing I’m doing the right thing and doing it right. At work I order tests and prescribe treatments because I know they work and I have a good reason for them (to find out what’s wrong or to help the person heal). I know I’m doing the right thing in trying to save our marriage, I just don’t know how to do it right. “Opening the cage” may be the only way. I now know I can survive without my wife, many have told me I’ll be O.K. I’ve told her I don’t want to divorce, it’s a decision she has made because she is not happy in the marriage. I’ve told her I want to continue to care for her but only within the marriage. We could have a great marriage if she want one. Yes, there will be disagreements and disappointments, that is unavoidable. She will not always get what she wants. She has to decide if staying in the marriage is the right thing to do, I can’t make that decision for her.

 

[mark91845]

Tucdoc, I have read through a great deal of this thread. I don’t think you realize that your wife is basicly using you as an atm. You mention that seeing what would happen financially to her from a divorce has made her uneasy in going through with final divorce proceedings. This should speak volumes to you. It is not love she is wanting, it is monetary comfort.

I pray you get through this tough time.

 

[tucdoc]

Mark91845, I told her last year I felt like an ATM. She says that all I care about is the money, that I use money to control her. I contend that I’m trying to be responsible, that I would rather save more money for the kid’s college and for retirement than to spend more now. This is a big issue with us and I had suggested we go to a financial planner to help us come up with an objective budget, but she refused. Maybe proceeding with a divorce, and limiting her spending to alimony, is the right thing to do.

This AM I thought about Joseph in the book of Genesis. He didn’t deserve anything that happened to him (slavery, imprisonment, etc.). Yet he alway knew God was with him, and in the end, all that he went through served a greater purpose. I’m trying to adopt that mindset, that all this suffering and loss will eventually serve a greater purpose.

 

[EasterJoy]

This AM I thought about Joseph in the book of Genesis. He didn’t deserve anything that happened to him (slavery, imprisonment, etc.). Yet he alway knew God was with him, and in the end, all that he went through served a greater purpose. I’m trying to adopt that mindset, that all this suffering and loss will eventually serve a greater purpose.

That attitude can only do you good. As Mother Theresa used to put it:
God did not call me to be successful. God called me to be faithful.

Hang in there, and remain faithful. You will not go without your reward. Don’t hesitate to find a good spiritual director to confide in. The second-guessing about what “fidelity” means in a situation like yours could drive you off of the deep end! The path will be hard enough, even with someone to help you navigate it.

 

[90Domer]

Tucdoc,

If you don’t mind, can I ask you a question? Please feel free not to respond.

Did your wife work or lend financial support while you were in medical school? If so, I’m wondering if she feels that part of your paycheck is seen as a return on her investment in your education.

The reason I write this is because of the fact that I moved and worked to support my husband to make his grad school years less financially worrisome. Many of my coworkers thought I was a fool, and that my husband would dump me once he got his degree. Sadly, those attitudes are out there. And while you’re not the one wanting to leave, she may feel that sense of entitlement and thus not want anything to do with financial restraints.

I’ll pray for your intentions tonight at Mass.

 

[Tiribulus]

Tiribulus-
What your write is truly beautiful and surely Spirit inspired. >>>

You are too kind Madam. Left to myself I am face down, unconscious with a puddle of puke frozen to my head. He has allowed me to feast on His mercy and glimpse His beautiful face. He has been my wise Father, first born Brother and faithful Bridegroom for 26 years and even when I wasn’t nearly as faithful as He was. To Him be all the glory I pray. I KNOW He can resurrect this man’s marriage.

 

[tucdoc]

90Domer, my wife never supported me during my training. I have no idea where she got this entitlement mentality. She has become so materialistic that even her family has made comments to me. Maybe this is part of God’s plan, that she learn to live within a certain monetary limit. Honestly, the last credit card statement was equivalent to the after-tax value of her proposed alimony. She is asking for a new car, even while we are writing checks to the attorneys. She has no idea how to stay within a budget.

At the same time, if material things really aren’t important to me, I shouldn’t focus on my financial loss. This is hard, losing half the value of the house and my retirement, as well as half of the cash from a recent building sale (whatever is left after the attorneys). But, I will still have a comfortable, although no longer affluent, lifestyle. And I will have just enough money left to buy a condo (big step down from a 5 bedroom home). Still, I know the things of this world don’t last, so I shouldn’t mourn these losses. I mourn the loss of the person with whom I vowed to spend the rest of my life. But, as things progress, I know that I have to go on with my life, being open to the new plans God has for my life.

 

[EasterJoy]

90Domer, my wife never supported me during my training. I have no idea where she got this entitlement mentality. She has become so materialistic that even her family has made comments to me. Maybe this is part of God’s plan, that she learn to live within a certain monetary limit. Honestly, the last credit card statement was equivalent to the after-tax value of her proposed alimony. She is asking for a new car, even while we are writing checks to the attorneys. She has no idea how to stay within a budget.

At the same time, if material things really aren’t important to me, I shouldn’t focus on my financial loss. This is hard, losing half the value of the house and my retirement, as well as half of the cash from a recent building sale (whatever is left after the attorneys). But, I will still have a comfortable, although no longer affluent, lifestyle. And I will have just enough money left to buy a condo (big step down from a 5 bedroom home). Still, I know the things of this world don’t last, so I shouldn’t mourn these losses. I mourn the loss of the person with whom I vowed to spend the rest of my life. But, as things progress, I know that I have to go on with my life, being open to the new plans God has for my life.

There are a surprising number of otherwise-sane people in this world who don’t accept that there is any difference between what they want, what they need, and what they are entitled to have. (IMHO, falling for the devil’s lies does not automatically constitute an insanity, not unless we believe that all of us sinners are insane.) I still have to hope your wife is going through some kind of temporary blindness, though, that she might yet come to her senses. That doesn’t mean I think your marriage will be magically fixed if she does, only that she will never know contentment until she does.

It took extreme poverty before the prodigal son came to his senses. His decision was just as wrong when he was flush with money as it was when he was starving to death. It took starvation for him to see how wrong he had been, and even that did not wake him up to how deeply he was loved. He went home, contrite, because he was hungry.

The father in the story of the prodigal son let the son go away with half of the estate, even though the son’s decision to ask for it was profoundly self-centered and totally contrary to the love he owed to his father. He was in no way entitled to the inheritance he took away with him, but his father let him go. Obviously, the Lord laid none of the responsibility for the son’s errors on the father.

Hang in there, tucdoc. You can only do so much here. Her Father gave her the gift of free will, so the rest is up to her.

 

[qui_est_ce]

At the same time, if material things really aren’t important to me, I shouldn’t focus on my financial loss. This is hard, losing half the value of the house and my retirement, as well as half of the cash from a recent building sale (whatever is left after the attorneys). But, I will still have a comfortable, although no longer affluent, lifestyle.** And I will have just enough money left to buy a condo (big step down from a 5 bedroom home). ** Still, I know the things of this world don’t last, so I shouldn’t mourn these losses. I mourn the loss of the person with whom I vowed to spend the rest of my life. But, as things progress, I know that I have to go on with my life, being open to the new plans God has for my life.

Hi tucdoc. Last year I had to move from a nice three bedroom 2 bath home. It was a beautiful old house with stained glass windows and original hardwood floors, beautiful kitchen, etc. I had to sell it because I couldn’t afford to live in it any more, and my kids had grown up and moved out. I moved to a little condo. It has wall to wall carpeting and the blandest kitchen and bathrooms. At first I hated it. I didn’t realize how materialistic I was. My old house defined me.

Living in a condo is one of the best choices I made. I can live within my means, I had to get rid of a lot of “stuff.” Although I liked yard work (I also had a beautiful yard and grew vegetables), not having yard work freed up a lot of time. We’ve had a lot of snow this year, and I haven’t had to shovel!

No offense, but it looks like your wife is “loading up” before she has to be on her own. I have no doubt she’ll be begging you for financial help after the dissolution.

A 5-bedroom house is a lot to take care of. I’m sure the electric bill alone is astronomical.

I have been praying for you at daily mass.

 

[90Domer]

Tucdoc, I’m so sorry for what you’re going through.

I was wondering if I could ask you a couple more questions regarding how finances were viewed in your marriage ( my husband and I are on a marriage prep team).

Did you ever feel the sense that your wife liked the concept of marrying a high-paying professional when you were dating?

Was there ever a time in your marriage when there was a risk of no income?

Did you establish a game plan for income in the event that you became ill and couldn’t work?

With the healthcare reform bill passed, will your profession lose income due to lower reimbursements?

Is it possible to have a financial planner in on the mediation process?

I agree with Easterjoy that your wife is going through a phase where reality hasn’t set in. I hope she sees the error of her ways soon.

Blessings.