Wife out of line? regarding fear & contraception?

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TryingMyBest123

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My wife and I were married just over 5 years ago. We married late, me 39 and she 42. Neither of us have children or have been married before. We’re both Catholic by birth but she’s been very tangential for many years - not very interested in ritual or particulars (doesn’t accompany me to Mass, etc.).

We tried to have children and ended up with difficulty conceiving, but eventually she was pregnant and we were elated! That pregnancy ended in early miscarriage, though. We managed to get pregnant two more times but both ended the same way - early miscarriages. 😦

She’s has said that we/she apparently can’t have children naturally and is now afraid of getting pregnant at and “advanced age” - she’s now 47. She fears getting diabetes from another failed pregnancy (apparently this can happen); or the likelihood of a Down’s Syndrome baby given our ages.

She got on “the pill” for a short while a year or so ago but I told her I didn’t like that; and that it was an abortifiscient type thing too! She reluctantly abandoned it (thank God) but she still demanded that I use a barrier method most of the time when we had marital relations.

Well, the “fear” is getting the best of her again and she told me today that she got an IUD put in because she’s so afraid of getting pregnant and wants to do all she can “for her health” - that is, not getting pregnant, getting sick/ill or pushing the odds of a DS baby. Are her fears grounded?? Is this something that older women are warned to do?? I don’t want to put my (potential) children in HARMS WAY!! :bighanky:

Even BEYOND the whole Catholic position on contraception with respect to how it limits/diminishes the marital relationship - especially, precisely at the moment when you should be CLOSEST - I couldn’t/can’t live with the idea of an abortifiscient lurking in our life. My wife is very headstrong; especially when it comes to her health & beliefs about it. What can I do??? I feel helpless & I don’t want our marriage to be threatened with ruin. Does anyone have any experience with this? Or advice?? Many thanks to you! God Bless.
 
I’m so sorry for your losses…that must have been very very hard for both of you.😦 My only advice is to please make an appt for you both to sit down with a priest, and see what he thinks about this. I will keep you both in my prayers.
 
yes, the older a woman gets the higher her chances of having a baby with downs syndrome.

however what struck me was when you mentioned you wouldnt want to put your child in harms way. i believe you. now what is closer to harms way, assuming you two concieved:
  1. having a baby with downs syndrome, severe yes but lif expentancy is nearly 60 on average these days for them.
  2. baby is concieved and then killed in your wife’s womb by some unnatural means?
please dont get me wrong. im not trying to tell you or your wife what to do with regards to birth control or marital relations. however i think you probably know what the Church teaches with regards to abc.

that said i have 2 recomendations.
  1. pray
  2. get some good counseling from a Catholic source
 
I would recommend an appointment with a specialist in fertility issues. He/she can explain all the risks/odds of becoming pregnant and delivering a healthy child at an advanced age. Once you are armed with some facts, you can address how you want to manage your fertility.
 
I’m sorry for your losses as well. Having had a miscarriage I know what it was like for me.

IUD’s carry risk with them that is detrimental to your wife’s health as does the pill etc. They are also a risk to aborting babies because they prevent implantation. Do some research on how IUD’s work.

You can do the research about the increase in Downs Syndrome Babies. It is certainly in the forefront considering we have a VP candidate with a Downs child. There’s lots of information out there. You need to consider what God is calling you to do in relationship to the possibility of such a child. Yes the secular world will tell you to do everything possible not bring a sick child into the world. Is that what God would say?

The best thing for both of you would be to learn an NFP method and stick practice very conservatively. It would be natural and without side effects and unnatural risks. It would be the moral thing to do.

In that way you would not be participating in any sinful behavior. If you haven’t gone to confession for the use of condoms I hope you will do so. You shouldn’t be receiving communion if you haven’t . That would only compound the sin.

You come across like a caring person who loves his family and wants to protect them and care for them. I can see your struggle. However you are a grown man and you are the spiritual leader of your family and you must also be strong in these decisions. So go get as informed as you can about why ABC is wrong , including the physical side effects etc discuss this with your wife and come to a compromise and how you can alleviate your wife’s fears .

Another thing, it disturbs me that you wife got and IUD without consulting you . No way would I do such a thing without consulting my husband. Just wouldn’t happen in a marriage where the two are attempting to live as one. I realize you got married older and were probably used to doing things as indivuduals but once you got married all these decisions should now be joint decisions. 5 years is not all that long to married- I’ve been married 23 and we are still working out some issues where we need to work harder to be “as one” so I understand this. Still , it is the goal of marriage and is something you should be working toward . The above decision seems to be one of independence which really has no place withing marriage.
 
TryingMyBest123 said:
My wife and I were married just over 5 years ago. We married late, me 39 and she 42. Neither of us have children or have been married before. We’re both Catholic by birth but she’s been very tangential for many years - not very interested in ritual or particulars (doesn’t accompany me to Mass, etc.).
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Did I understand this correctly that your wife misses Mass on a regular basis, or does she simply not attend Mass with you while going on her own?

If she’s missing Mass, I think the contraception issue is a secondary concern. I’d be more concerned about your wife’s spiritual health if she misses Mass on a regular basis. The Church teachings against contraception (while important) are only part of the whole. I understand your situation correctly, your wife misses a number of other very basic and essential Church teachings.

Perhaps one of the most essential Church teachings that she’s missing is that God loves her. I suspect that she may suffer emotionally from the miscarriages and her infertility. Mass might comfort to her, but she might also be angry with God over the loss of her children.

Pray for your wife. Show her that God loves her by loving your wife as Christ loves the Church. Use all the spiritual tools available to help your wife. I recommend you have a Mass said for her and for your miscarried babies.
 
I am 45… and I have had 2+ miscarriages since my marriage in 2005. They were hard, they were painful emotionally… but thankfully my dh and children from a previous marriage were there for me.

I know the risk of having a downs baby at my age… a blessing from God is never a mistake… whether the child be normal or have developmental problems or even a fatal deformity… and trust me… I went through a child that stopped breathing in his sleep…another that has dyslexia and adhd… and you know what??? My life is much better for having them in it. Even if I only had that child a short time… I would rest easier knowing that child is happy and up with our Creator now.

So what is the real issue here? Are you supportive? and what are you doing to help her to achieve salvation? I agree with the other poster that said the first thing you need to do is worry about her going to mass.
 
I have a son with DS. Before I had him that diagnosis would have terrified me-but he is a wonderful kid-the delight of his Dad’s life (and mine). He is the best thing that has happened to us-along with our other children of course.
 
Thanks for all your comments, prayers and advice.

I agree with aggieCatholic05 that I wouldn’t want a “baby (to be) conceived and then killed in (my) wife’s womb by some unnatural means” That’s why I’m so against this IUD.

And, thank you Island Oak, but unfortunately(?) she isn’t interested in pursuing pregnancy now. She’s also not interested in adoption. She feels we’re too old for either.

Seatuck, yes, I’ve done lots of research on how IUDs work. That’s why I’m so concerned about this, and as far as NFP, I’ve been suggesting & practically begging for us to use that be she won’t hear of it. She won’t research it with me or otherwise. She just won’t do it. She **believes **that it is ineffective and that’s that.

Unfortunately, my wife is not inclined to agree to visit or talk to a Priest as she holds the Church and Church authority in somewhat low regard. She’s more of the type who values general “spirituality” but “won’t be bothered” with regular ritual. Don’t get me wrong - she’s a fine person who loves her sister, nephews, aunts, etc. but on this issue she only seems to see what she wants to see or to let “fear” make her decisions.
 
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TryingMyBest123:
And … she isn’t interested in pursuing pregnancy now. She’s also not interested in adoption. She feels we’re too old for either.
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I don’t think your wife’s reaction is surprising 47/48 is on the late side to be a first time mother and the physical and emotional effects of three miscarriages is more than enough for women much younger than her to start to have doubts about her ability to have a family and her ability to parent a child born with a disability.
I’ve done lots of research on how IUDs work. That’s why I’m so concerned about this, and as far as NFP, I’ve been suggesting & practically begging for us to use that be she won’t hear of it. She won’t research it with me or otherwise. She just won’t do it.
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Suspect that the subject of “family planning methods” between your wife and is no longer looking at the intrinsic ability of them to prevent conception but their acceptability to either partner.

While decisions on family should be made by husband and wife, I can also understand your wife having an IUD fitted without discussing it with you. She would known what your reaction would have been if she had suggested it.
Don’t get me wrong - she’s a fine person who loves her sister, nephews, aunts, etc. but on this issue she only seems to see what she wants to see or to let “fear” make her decisions.
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Your wife’s 'fear" and the only 100% sure method of her not becoming pregnant is abstinence. Of course this is going to influence her decision, she’d be irresponsible not to think of additional difficulties that can come with pregnancy and birth at her age and her ability to cope with them.
 
Just want to say that your wife thinking the IUD is going to stop a pregnancy is not necessarily true… my cousin ( she is Not Catholic) had an IUD put in when her baby was one month old, thinking she would delay another pregnancy… well, five months later she found out she was four months (yes… four months) pregnant and she even had a light period (that is why she didn’t know she was pregnant) and her son was born healthy thank God.

I just get chills thinking that her precious little boy might not have been if that IUD did its job and pulled his little body off while he tried to implant to his mothers womb… but this really showed my cousin something… God is in control at all times and we are not… she no longer thinks IUD’s or any form of birth control other than NFP is acceptable… it took this little boy to open her eyes.

I’ll be praying for you and your wife.
 
Thanks Kage_ar, Salonika & Kamz. I’m praying too! :sad_yes:
 
TryingMyBest123 said:
unfortunately(?) she isn’t interested in pursuing pregnancy now. She’s also not interested in adoption. She feels we’re too old for either.
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Just would like to add a comment, since raising a child is one of the greatest joys and challenges of being human – I’m very sorry your wife is so fearful of the risks.
But she is not too old for adoption. I adopted an infant at the age of 52 - she’s 12 now. And there are many older children who need permanent homes, up to the age of 18 – kids who will age out of foster care, go off to college/work and never have a home to return to for holidays. I’d like to adopt one of them except now I may be getting a little old for adoption!
 
Viki63, thank you for you post.

I just had another discussion (argument) with my wife about this Mirena IUS (IUD). She repeats how she’s “terrified” of becoming pregnant at her age (over 46) and has had nightmares about it. She says that she “lives in fear every day” that she’d get diabetes from a pregnancy at this age, or some other pregnancy related late-age disease or condition.
I agree with the story kamz related about her cousin where she understands that “God is in control and we are not”. When I mention anything like that my wife claims that I don’t care about her or her health and that I “just want a baby”, and that she’s the one who would have to deal with the diabetes, etc. and not me. She rebuffs offers to use NFP saying that it is not effective. I say it is, but she argues that she’s looked it up online, at the library and elsewhere and says that it is not effective. She also dislikes how it “limits intercourse” to a narrow window.
My position is that it: A) is effective when used right/cooperatively, B) brings people together rather than pushes them apart, C) doesn’t threaten a child (fertilized egg) with abortion (due to a rejection from implantation) and, D) is natural and doesn’t involve barriers or chemicals.
All of this comes to no end however as she doesn’t want “any chance” of becoming pregnant or dealing with late-age pregnancy issues.
Right now, I’m just not having relations with her and she sees this as an extreme reaction to the “extremely low chance” that she’d even become pregnant and that the pregnancy would be ended by rejection from implantation. I told her I’m not willing to take that chance that we might be “killing our kid”. She thinks I’m being selfish and one-sided. That I don’t care about her, and that I’m overly concerned with such a low-chance “lottery” type occurance.
We are at a standstill. I don’t know what to do.
I might go to see a Priest about it - alone. She will NOT have anything to do with seeing a Priest with me. She would just see that as me trying to pressure her.
 
TryingMyBest123 said:
Viki63, thank you for you post.

I just had another discussion (argument) with my wife about this Mirena IUS (IUD). She repeats how she’s “terrified” of becoming pregnant at her age (over 46) and has had nightmares about it. She says that she “lives in fear every day” that she’d get diabetes from a pregnancy at this age, or some other pregnancy related late-age disease or condition.
I agree with the story kamz related about her cousin where she understands that “God is in control and we are not”. When I mention anything like that my wife claims that I don’t care about her or her health and that I “just want a baby”, and that she’s the one who would have to deal with the diabetes, etc. and not me. She rebuffs offers to use NFP saying that it is not effective. I say it is, but she argues that she’s looked it up online, at the library and elsewhere and says that it is not effective. She also dislikes how it “limits intercourse” to a narrow window.
My position is that it: A) is effective when used right/cooperatively, B) brings people together rather than pushes them apart, C) doesn’t threaten a child (fertilized egg) with abortion (due to a rejection from implantation) and, D) is natural and doesn’t involve barriers or chemicals.
All of this comes to no end however as she doesn’t want “any chance” of becoming pregnant or dealing with late-age pregnancy issues.
Right now, I’m just not having relations with her and she sees this as an extreme reaction to the “extremely low chance” that she’d even become pregnant and that the pregnancy would be ended by rejection from implantation. I told her I’m not willing to take that chance that we might be “killing our kid”. She thinks I’m being selfish and one-sided. That I don’t care about her, and that I’m overly concerned with such a low-chance “lottery” type occurance.
We are at a standstill. I don’t know what to do.
I might go to see a Priest about it - alone. She will NOT have anything to do with seeing a Priest with me. She would just see that as me trying to pressure her.
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How is this not having sex with your wife working out for you?
Are you killing your marriage by denying your wife?

God Bless!
 
I’m sorry to hear about this. When people put up a wall and unwilling to hear any reason, it is best that you don’t discuss it with them any more as you might make it worse.

I suggest, that you just let things quiet down and not try to persuade her. Go see a priest or a catholic counselor right away that would advice you on how you should treat the whole situation such as should you have marital relation or not.

You should also never give up praying no matter what happens or how long it took, and just accept the cross of your life. God might be asking you to pray for her.

I don’t know if you know catholic Dr. Ray Guarendi or not, but he has a radio show which you can call in and ask his opinion. Here is his website. drray.com/index.htm

God Bless!
 
TryingMyBest123:

If your wife believes she is too old to have children or to adopt children, then she IS too old. Parenting does not necessarily take youth, but it does demand stamina, tenacity, enthusiasm, imagination, patience. It sounds as if she simply does not want this experience, and women who are not on board with the whole baby thing make ineffective and resentful parents. Begging will not change her mind.

To me, it sounds like legitimate grounds for annulment if you cannot accept her refusal to commit to motherhood. Can you do this? Would you prefer to have a child in your life* instead of *a wife?

marietta
 
tee, thank you very much for your many insightful suggestions. I plan to see a Priest or Catholic Counselor soon.

marietta - thank you, but you misunderstand. I’m not trying to force my wife to have a child.
I accept that we will very, very likely not have children. What this is about is her use of artificial, abortifiscient contraception which could lead to any egg of hers that gets fertilized being aborted from the womb. That’s what needs to be avoided, I believe, and gets in the way of our having a proper and healthy and appropriately intimate marriage.
 
emeraldcoast - your questions are valid, but I don’t know if you realize the choices here. Marriage, though important, is not more important that life, or salvation.
 
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