Wife vs Parents?

[Mary_Gail_36]

Uh…no. Cultural expectations do not take precedence over martial obligations and I don’t even think that the Catholic church would think it does.

Why are you so insistent that parents should come before a spouse?

I was just typing something similar and lost my work.

The couple is Catholic. Catholic teaching overrides any cultural expectation, and if something is against Catholic teaching, it must be avoided.

I’m of Sicilian origin, some cultural traditions of the past would not be acceptable to the Church. An off topic example would be forced marriage after a couple had premarital sex. I’ve seen this in the older generations, teens making a stupid mistake and being forced to marry.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Hello -

I feel embarrassed asking about what seems to be a pretty naive topic. But I struggle with this daily. Please hear me out?

I live in South Asia, and am a cradle Catholic. Have been married for 11 years. The marriage is really rough, and has been for the past 8 years or so. I’m hanging in somehow, but it’s a huge struggle.

One of the (many) HUGE issues my wife has is with my parents - specifically my mother. She thinks her mother-in-law is a major cause of the issues between us. To cut a long story short, I don’t agree.

As cultural background - “mother in law issues” and “taking care of parents” is one of the primary causes for marriage difficulties in this part of the world. As additional background - “respect for parents” is a VERY big deal here (way more than I have seen in the US).

So, I continue to struggle with how to be a good husband vs how to be a good son. Practically speaking, I don’t think I’m being either.

I wanted to ask the group - what does our Faith and the Bible say about how a man should prioritize his wife vs his parents? I somehow got the impression over time that the wife is supposed to be pre-eminent. But am not able to find a lot of scripture to support this. Just in terms of the number of mentions of this, the Bible seems to say a lot more about respect for parents than about the wife. For example, honor for parents is actually one of the Commandments - the wife does not figure at all. There is a good deal in the OT about taking care of one’s parents - and not much about one’s relationship with one’s wife. Even in the Gospels, Jesus doesn’t seem to say much about a wife - but he does mention parents. It’s only in the Epistles where it says that marriage is a parallel to Jesus’s relationship with the Church - and a man should love a wife more than his own body etc.

Now, I know I am no Bible scholar. I use the Bible more a lifeline than a study topic. So I must be missing several things here. Could someone help shed some light on this?

thank you!

Did you marry a non-Asian?

The cultural expectations should be the same on both sides, unless you married from another culture.

 

[EasterJoy]

My suggestion is that you and your wife sit down and agree on how you expect your married children and their spouses to treat you when you are the matriarch and patriarch. Then add a little extra room, and treat your parents (and hers) and you yourselves hope to be treated, including how you expect to be treated if you get difficult. (Use your imagination and consider how you would feel if your thoughts were their thoughts.)

As for respect for one’s wife, remember Ephesians 5. I’ll paste just the part about the husband, for your convenience:

**Be subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ…For the husband is head of his wife just as Christ is head of the church, he himself the savior of the body…Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word, that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. So (also) husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body.

*“For this reason a man shall leave (his) father and (his) mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” *

This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church. In any case, each one of you should love his wife as himself…**

 

[aicirt]

Uh…no. Cultural expectations do not take precedence over martial obligations and I don’t even think that the Catholic church would think it does.

Why are you so insistent that parents should come before a spouse?

Where did I say that parents should come before a spouse?

What I am saying is that your marriage vows do not eradicate the 4th Commandment. I believe I asked you before if you are under the impression that honoring one’s parents is only for children or those that are not married. You didn’t answer that question.

About cultural expectations: engagement is the time to know each other. This is the time when these things should be discussed. Again a subject for Cana. Is it handle in Cana? I doubt it.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Where did I say that parents should come before a spouse?

What I am saying is that your marriage vows do not eradicate the 4th Commandment. I believe I asked you before if you are under the impression that honoring one’s parents is only for children or those that are not married. You didn’t answer that question.

About cultural expectations: engagement is the time to know each other. This is the time when these things should be discussed. Again a subject for Cana. Is it handle in Cana? I doubt it.

No, I don’t think that only unmarried children should honor and care for their parents.

But if there is conflict between parents and spouse, the spouse wins. You make all decisions with your spouse, not parents. Your spouse’s needs come before those of your parents. Even if it puts you in a tight spot with your family of origin you respect the privacy of your marriage, set appropriate boundaries with your parents, always turn to your spouse first, and always take their side.

 

[aicirt]

No, I don’t think that only unmarried children should honor and care for their parents.

But if there is conflict between parents and spouse, the spouse wins. You make all decisions with your spouse, not parents. Your spouse’s needs come before those of your parents. Even if it puts you in a tight spot with your family of origin you respect the privacy of your marriage, set appropriate boundaries with your parents, always turn to your spouse first, and always take their side.

This isn’t about winning or losing. I can’t possibly imagine taking my spouse’s side about anything if he’s wrong. Ditto for my parents.

We never had this thing about chosing whether he’s first or not. I can’t even comprehend what you are referring to. We meet each other’s needs but when my parents needed me, I was there and he was too.

 

[Kelfa28]

This isn’t about winning or losing. I can’t possibly imagine taking my spouse’s side about anything if he’s wrong. Ditto for my parents.

We never had this thing about chosing whether he’s first or not. I can’t even comprehend what you are referring to. We meet each other’s needs but when my parents needed me, I was there and he was too.

The problem is there are many, many couples who have loads of issues with parents over-stepping their boundaries when it comes to decision making within a married couple’s household.

Decisions and opinions about faith, child-rearing, living-arrangements, expectations…you name it.
Grandparents will overstep parenting decisions and the parent will not support their spouse when there is a disagreement.

It’s all over the forum here. Moms or Dads who are frustrated that their spouse will not say no to grandparents who don’t honor their parenting decisions…whether it’s sweets, electronics or something more serious such as pulling their children away from the faith and evangelizing them.

You may not comprehend it…but it exists and it happens all the time.

I have issues with my MIL evangelizing us away from Catholicism and I had fears she would want my daughter to attend her non-denominational services. My husband doesn’t seem to think it’s a problem but he respects my wishes and will not let my MIL bring my daughter to her service.
There would be a big issue in our relationship if he listened to his mother over me.

We are always expected to honor our parents…to make sure they aren’t abandoned in old age and they are respected and their affairs are taken care of. But we aren’t expected to yield to them after we are married.
We aren’t expected to become one flesh and one person with our spouse…except those instances when our parents still have something to say about how we live our lives.

 

[aicirt]

The problem is there are many, many couples who have loads of issues with parents over-stepping their boundaries when it comes to decision making within a married couple’s household.

Decisions and opinions about faith, child-rearing, living-arrangements, expectations…you name it.
Grandparents will overstep parenting decisions and the parent will not support their spouse when there is a disagreement.

It’s all over the forum here. Moms or Dads who are frustrated that their spouse will not say no to grandparents who don’t honor their parenting decisions…whether it’s sweets, electronics or something more serious such as pulling their children away from the faith and evangelizing them.

You may not comprehend it…but it exists and it happens all the time.

I have issues with my MIL evangelizing us away from Catholicism and I had fears she would want my daughter to attend her non-denominational services. My husband doesn’t seem to think it’s a problem but he respects my wishes and will not let my MIL bring my daughter to her service.
There would be a big issue in our relationship if he listened to his mother over me.

We are always expected to honor our parents…to make sure they aren’t abandoned in old age and they are respected and their affairs are taken care of. But we aren’t expected to yield to them after we are married.
We aren’t expected to become one flesh and one person with our spouse…except those instances when our parents still have something to say about how we live our lives.

Well said.

I find that some of the posts which you referred to indicate an attitude where the new mother/wife feels threatened if the spouse does not agree with her in all things. And ususally the favorite saying…a man must cling to his wife etc…is used to validate her feelings that he’s wrong even if he’s right because he must defer to her. And usually this brings up the question in my mind when and if does she ever defer to him.

Re. sweets. My cousin and I had the same relatives including a grandfather who always hid candy for us to find when we visited him. This was his thing and our enjoyment. It was the way of treating kids when one visited someone. Kids usually got cookies or were given candy. I never took issue with this when my kids were little. She did. Big thing when her MIL allowed her kids to have sweets when visiting. I’m on the sidelines thinking, “Really?” I couldn’t understand her anger and I do mean anger. Why couldn’t she be happy the kids had grandparents? It happened maybe once a week. So brush their teeth when they get home.

Living arrangements. Is it really something the grandparents want to take over or just conversation? They’re ready to put the money down on the dream home when your husband noticesthe concrete on the basement floor is minimal and you notice their aren’t enough outlets in all the rooms. Say something or not? Trust me, if you’ve gotten the “attitude” enough times, you’ll keep quiet.

Child rearing. I was more than happy to consider any suggestion when the babies were crying and, having tried everything, no longer knew what to do.

Why do you fear your MIL converting you? Is she stronger in her faith than you are in yours? You might end up converting her.

Honoring your parents involves more than making sure they aren’t abandoned in old age. It is making sure they’re not abandoned before old age too. We had issues with our parents too but the bottom line was at every holiday there was a place for them at the table, all birthdays were acknowledged, and they were there for the kids.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Well said.

I find that some of the posts which you referred to indicate an attitude where the new mother/wife feels threatened if the spouse does not agree with her in all things. And ususally the favorite saying…a man must cling to his wife etc…is used to validate her feelings that he’s wrong even if he’s right because he must defer to her. And usually this brings up the question in my mind when and if does she ever defer to him. The couple should always take the side of the other over their own family of origin. That means that if a man has an issue with his wife’s parents the wife takes his side. Same if she has an issue with his. The man doesn’t give in to his wife because he’s the man and has to, but he does it because they are married and both partners should do that.

Re. sweets. My cousin and I had the same relatives including a grandfather who always hid candy for us to find when we visited him. This was his thing and our enjoyment. It was the way of treating kids when one visited someone. Kids usually got cookies or were given candy. I never took issue with this when my kids were little. She did. Big thing when her MIL allowed her kids to have sweets when visiting. I’m on the sidelines thinking, “Really?” I couldn’t understand her anger and I do mean anger. Why couldn’t she be happy the kids had grandparents? It happened maybe once a week. So brush their teeth when they get home. Maybe sweets upset her children’s stomachs or she didn’t want them to develop a taste for them. Or maybe it was causing issues at home, i.e “Grandma lets us have it!” The point is that they are her children, and if she doesn’t want them eating ________ then her wishes need to be respected.

Living arrangements. Is it really something the grandparents want to take over or just conversation? They’re ready to put the money down on the dream home when your husband noticesthe concrete on the basement floor is minimal and you notice their aren’t enough outlets in all the rooms. Say something or not? Trust me, if you’ve gotten the “attitude” enough times, you’ll keep quiet. Huh? Of course if your parents are buying you a home both partners should be grateful. But that rarely happens. 99.999% of the time the couple picks out and buys their own home. Their parents do not get a vote in what or where that home is.

Child rearing. I was more than happy to consider any suggestion when the babies were crying and, having tried everything, no longer knew what to do. That’s all well and good. But a lot of MIL’s do more than offer suggestions. They criticize and control. Trust me, it happens.

Why do you fear your MIL converting you? Is she stronger in her faith than you are in yours? You might end up converting her.

Honoring your parents involves more than making sure they aren’t abandoned in old age. It is making sure they’re not abandoned before old age too. We had issues with our parents too but the bottom line was at every holiday there was a place for them at the table, all birthdays were acknowledged, and they were there for the kids.Good! They should always be welcome with you barring any sort of over the top mean, cruel, abusive, or destructive behavior.

But at the end of the day your spouse should be you number one priority.

I can tell you this much, if I was having surgery the same day as my soon to be MIL my fiance would be in the waiting room at the hospital that I was at, even if her surgery was 100x more serious. If she needed help with someone on a weekend that we had been planning on doing something special as a couple, he would make other arraignments for her to get the help. If my mother really hated the neighborhood that my fiance had his heart set on living in, I wouldn’t care. If my mom and fiance had a disagreement on something, even if I agreed with her, I would say “I’m sorry mom, I understand where you’re coming from but I have to stand by my husband.” If my mom thought that she should be able to feed our child _________ but my husband for whatever reason didn’t want our children exposed to ___________ I would stand by him. Being grateful that your child has grandparents does not mean that grandparents have the freedom to do whatever they want.

 

[aicirt]

But at the end of the day your spouse should be you number one priority.

I can tell you this much, if I was having surgery the same day as my soon to be MIL my fiance would be in the waiting room at the hospital that I was at, even if her surgery was 100x more serious. If she needed help with someone on a weekend that we had been planning on doing something special as a couple, he would make other arraignments for her to get the help. If my mother really hated the neighborhood that my fiance had his heart set on living in, I wouldn’t care. If my mom and fiance had a disagreement on something, even if I agreed with her, I would say “I’m sorry mom, I understand where you’re coming from but I have to stand by my husband.” If my mom thought that she should be able to feed our child _________ but my husband for whatever reason didn’t want our children exposed to ___________ I would stand by him. Being grateful that your child has grandparents does not mean that grandparents have the freedom to do whatever they want.

The surgery thingy is over the top. The next is open to the real situation at the time.

Neighborhood thing would require asking Mom what she had against the neighborhood. Just maybe she might have a reason like there’s five perverts living on the street. Maybe you didn’t know that. Get the info and then decide.

What horrible food would your Mom be feeding your child? And you think your husband would be objecting?

Does everything have to be a battle? Why does your imagination lead you to assume it will be you and him against the world. Relax. Enjoy.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

The surgery thingy is over the top. The next is open to the real situation at the time.

Neighborhood thing would require asking Mom what she had against the neighborhood. Just maybe she might have a reason like there’s five perverts living on the street. Maybe you didn’t know that. Get the info and then decide.

What horrible food would your Mom be feeding your child? And you think your husband would be objecting?

Does everything have to be a battle? Why does your imagination lead you to assume it will be you and him against the world. Relax. Enjoy.

I don’t think that the surgery thing is over the top at all, and I would do the same. If he was having a tonsillectomy and my mom was having open heart surgery I would be with my husband. That’s my place. Granted I would be by my phone and I would make sure that she had someone who loved her at the hospital. But I would be with him, and she understands that.

My mom is morbidly obese and the cooks and eats the most unhealthy food imaginable. I can think of a lot that my fiance would object to, especially considering the battle he had with his weight and some of his medical issues that still stem from the time he spent extremely overweight. I feel safe saying that there are lots of things that he won’t want our young children to develop a taste for before they are old enough to have basic nutrition information.

Of course if my mom didn’t like the neighborhood she could tell me why. But even after hearing the information my husband and I would make the choice, and I wouldn’t feel the least bit guilty doing something that she didn’t like.

When you’re married both partners should strive to love and care for both sets of parents. But ultimately the first priority has to be each other. What your spouse wants and thinks comes before what your parents want and think. Always. If they both need you at the same time, you need to be with your spouse.

 

[jbshmm]

Thank you all for your perspectives.

This is a very nuanced topic. At the end of it all, despite good intentions, I find myself unable to comprehend or do whatever should have been done in a particular situation to establish peace. Like one of you said, I’m a man and don’t always understand all the subtleties of what is going on in a particular situation. I try to stand by my wife, but I often think she is in the wrong. Problems break out when I disagree with her, but I usually stay with my stance based on the theory that it is better to suffer for what is right. But I am continually beset by confusion - I fear I may have more of a blind spot towards my mother than towards my spouse. My wife knows that, and it makes things worse.

The only thing I am depending on is - God knows my intentions, he loves me, and he is working out His plan in all of this. For example, I came across the following links yesterday - they kind of explain this better:
youtu.be/NwDiJXLCMKw
gnm.org/index2.html (check the “Director’s news” section).

Thanks again, and God bless you. Please say a little prayer for me and my family if you have a minute.

 

[Irishmom2]

I fear I may have more of a blind spot towards my mother than towards my spouse. My wife knows that, and it makes things worse.

The only thing I am depending on is - God knows my intentions, he loves me, and he is working out His plan in all of this.

So despite what everyone here has said about a man leaving his mother and clinging to his wife, you say this.

I would suggest you get some Catholic counseling. First for you and then with your wife.

Yes, God has a plan for you, but you have to do the work to get there. He is not going to wave a wand over you and fix everything while you sit there and are confused, waiting for someone else to make a move.

 

[PaulinVA]

I try to stand by my wife, but I often think she is in the wrong. Problems break out when I disagree with her, but I usually stay with my stance based on the theory that it is better to suffer for what is right. But I am continually beset by confusion - I fear I may have more of a blind spot towards my mother than towards my spouse. My wife knows that, and it makes things worse.

You should always stand with your spouse, whether they are “right” or “wrong”.

 

[aicirt]

So despite what everyone here has said about a man leaving his mother and clinging to his wife, you say this.

I would suggest you get some Catholic counseling. First for you and then with your wife.

Yes, God has a plan for you, but you have to do the work to get there. He is not going to wave a wand over you and fix everything while you sit there and are confused, waiting for someone else to make a move.

Sorry, not everyone has said that. You have a vow to keep and a commandment to keep. Break either and you commit a mortal sin.

Yes, a spouse is to be honored and you are one when wed but this does not mean that you neglect any and all people who have been in your life prior to your marriage. Any spouse who demands that has control issues and that is not healthy.

This is a Catholic site. Did Jesus ever abandon his Mother or his eathly father? Are we suppose to do less?

 

[jbshmm]

Irishmom2, that comment hurt. I’ve heard that before. It makes me feel guilty, but I don’t know what to do next. What work do I need to do to get to a plan of God I don’t understand yet, instead of sitting there feeling confused?
PaulinVA, could you please explain further - how can it be appropriate to not speak up when someone is wrong, and keep complying with him/her because it’s a spouse?

 

[Irishmom2]

Irishmom2, that comment hurt. I’ve heard that before. It makes me feel guilty, but I don’t know what to do next. What work do I need to do to get to a plan of God I don’t understand yet, instead of sitting there feeling confused?
PaulinVA, could you please explain further - how can it be appropriate to not speak up when someone is wrong, and keep complying with him/her because it’s a spouse?

jbshmm, it was not my intent to hurt you. You asked about what you should do. A lot of people have told you to put your wife first. Others have said to put your parents first. Only you can choose. But you seem to be having trouble, and so I suggested that rather than sitting there, you do something, and I suggested counseling. Perhaps you should make an appointment with your parish priest and discuss your situation. He may be able to give you the name of a good Catholic counselor.

 

[jbshmm]

and I suggested counseling.

Been there, done that . Still working on it. But thanks.

 

[aicirt]

jbshmm, it was not my intent to hurt you. You asked about what you should do. A lot of people have told you to put your wife first. Others have said to put your parents first. Only you can choose. But you seem to be having trouble, and so I suggested that rather than sitting there, you do something, and I suggested counseling. Perhaps you should make an appointment with your parish priest and discuss your situation. He may be able to give you the name of a good Catholic counselor.

Who has said that one pust their parents first after marriage? There are times when they do come first depending on the circumstances. It is not black and white.

Here’s an example: Mary is pregnant and goes off to care for her COUSIN Elizabeth. Joseph doesn’t go with her. Mary feels Elizabeth needs her and off she goes to help. She didn’t stay home with Joseph. She went where she was needed.

 

[aicirt]

You should always stand with your spouse, whether they are “right” or “wrong”.

Please explain this to me.

You know your husband is wrong but only because he’s your husband you take his side over a mother/father or anyone for that matter when you are fully aware that they are correct in what they’re saying and he is not. And you don’t see this as participating in a lie?