Wife Went Astray...

[rayne89]

Katie1723:

What happened to Fidelity and Trust? Forgetting to pick up the laundry is a whole lot different than sleeping around.There’s a whole commandment devoted to that alone. And if he’s your best friend, why on earth would he hurt you so deeply? That’s all I’m asking.
~ Kathy ~

Because even people that love each other can hurt each other. He was suffering from chronic depression and treating it with alcohol. He was in the military (Navy) and we were frequently seperated for months at a time. We were 19-20 years old. People make mistakes- stupid, awful, painful mistakes.

I don’t know more of the details because he kept it a secret for years. It was years later when he was out of the military, going through AA that he told me it happen back when he was in the Navy. I told him I didn’t want to know who, what, where, when -I didn’t want to know at what point I thought we were ok and he was lying to me. It would do no good to have those memories, and only cause more pain. It was very hard for him to carry that guilt around and it was very hard for him to tell me. We have never discussed it since.

You have to be naive to think people who are bestfriends can’t make huge mistakes. So many of us profess to love Jesus, whom we are to love above all others and yet we fall into sin, sometimes terrible sin. Does that mean we don’t love Jesus? Does that mean he won’t forgive us? That he abandons us and leaves us?

By the way just because we never discussed it doesn’t mean our marriage was just peachy after that. It took years, hard work on both our parts, alot of prayer and a lot of Grace from God. Being married to an alcoholic can make you a very ugly person and we both had a lot of work to do. But God has truly blessed us. Our relationship is solid as a rock now, we are each others best friends and I can’t imagine a moment of my life without him.

Do I think nothing could happen to us now. That it will just be smooth sailing? That would be naive. Life is full ups and downs, I take nothing for granted and thank God for healing our marriage everyday.

The thing is when our spouse does something that hurts us the first thing we think is “look at what he’s done to me.” “How could she do this to me.” And ofcourse the sin effects us and hurts us but it rarely is ever done with the idea of “I will do this to him/her.”
If that was the case why do they try to hide it or cover it up. Selfish act? Absolutely. But sometimes we forget we didn’t marry saints, we married fallen creatures with weaknesses and failings. It our job to help each other get back up, and to help each other get to heaven.

God Bless

 

[rayne89]

Kathy-
I should add you seem to equate forgiving someone with saying its ok. Fidelity and trust are huge in a marraige and it’s never ok to break that. But what do you do if it does happen? Do you say since you broke your vows to me it’s ok for me to break my vows to you? You betrayed my trust so that nulls any promises I made to you?

It’s not something small, an affair is huge blow to a marriage. But still we are called to forgive. Our marriage vow wasn’t just wasn’t to our husband/wife it was to God. We need see Christ in our spouse and love our spouse as Christ would. That is the vocation of married people.

 

[Katie1723]

I stand by my personal philosophy…I don’t share me and I don’t share him…ever…NO excuses…NO exceptions…ever.
~ Kathy ~

 

[mumto5]

I’m with you Katie.

 

[rayne89]

Katie1723:

I stand by my personal philosophy…I don’t share me and I don’t share him…ever…NO excuses…NO exceptions…ever.
~ Kathy ~

Maybe I’m somewhat dim but I don’t understand what your saying here.

I didn’t “share” my husband with anyone. I would never willingly consent to such a thing.

I guess my philosophy is I love my husband unconditionally…always & forever. I said on the day I took my marriage vows and I meant it.

My husband and I were just talking about how amazing things are between us now. I said if going through all that “stuff” brought us to where we are today, I’d do it all over again given the choice.

May God Bless you with a long and happy marriage. I pray that you will never have your vows put to the test. Don’t ever take for granted the blessings in your marriage.

“There but for the grace of God go I.”

Peace.

 

[Ruthie]

So, Kathy, did you have an “old-fashioned” wedding with the good old vows?

I did, and I meant every word of them. Which means I have promised my husband, myself, and the Lord, to do my best, “to have and to hold,” even if the worst happens. Which rules out me saying, “You cheated on me - you’re outa here.” (If it ever happens, which God forbid!)

'Course, it doesn’t rule out me saying that I’d turn him into a soprano if he ever did such a thing! - - Don’t tell him I’m only bluffing…

 

[Katie1723]

rayne89:

Maybe I’m somewhat dim but I don’t understand what your saying here…Peace.

What I mean is that I would never cheat. There is NO need…no excuse…no explanation. And if HE cheated, there would be NO excuse…NO explanation I would believe. With me, I place that much value on my relationship, that if you so desire to break that “contract” for ANY reason whatsoever, we are over, done with , gone.
Rayne, you say you love your husband unconditionally. If that were true, and the reverse were true, then WHY would either cheat? If vows are that sacred for BOTH, then cheating is NOT an issue, and you should never have to worry.
Adultery by either party not only is emotionally devastating, but physically devastating as well, because you then sleep with everyone that person slept with and so on and so on. Why would anyone deliberately expose themselves AND their partner to that is beyond me.
~ Kathy ~

 

[rayne89]

Katie1723:

What I mean is that I would never cheat. There is NO need…no excuse…no explanation. And if HE cheated, there would be NO excuse…NO explanation I would believe. With me, I place that much value on my relationship, that if you so desire to break that “contract” for ANY reason whatsoever, we are over, done with , gone.
Rayne, you say you love your husband unconditionally. If that were true, and the reverse were true, then WHY would either cheat? If vows are that sacred for BOTH, then cheating is NOT an issue, and you should never have to worry.
Adultery by either party not only is emotionally devastating, but physically devastating as well, because you then sleep with everyone that person slept with and so on and so on. Why would anyone deliberately expose themselves AND their partner to that is beyond me.
~ Kathy ~

If that were true that I love him unconditionally? Are you insinuating that is NOT true? Or that it isn’t true for my husband? You don’t need to tell me what adultary is because apparently you have not been effected by while I have.

Apparently you do love with conditions “*if you so desire to break that “contract” for ANY reason whatsoever, we are over, done with , gone.” *A sacramental marriage is not a contract by the way it’s a covenant. And there is a big difference.

First off this happened appx 15 years ago so if my husband didn’t truly love me that would have become apparent by now.

Three years ago I became very ill with Crohn’s disease. My husband stayed by me in the hospital the entire time. If your not familiar with Crohn’s it’s a digestive disorder. Which means I was vomiting as well as having “bathroom issues” near constantly. He was the one cleaning me up many times a day because I was so weak I couldn’t do myself, and he knew I was embarressed to have the nurses do it. He came in the showers with me to help me wash up -the man even shaved my legs because I had an IV and couldn’t do it. He slept in a chair and fought the nurses who wanted him to leave.

He has always stayed with for any heart procedure I have had done and has spent many nights sleeping in chairs.

He fully supported me in homeschooling despite objections from some of his family. And now that he works afternoon shift (10-12 hr days) and I had to switch to mornings for my part time job he does half of the homeschooling with our daughter.

He converted to Catholicism in 97 and was completely open to NFP (even though he really didn’t get it) because it was important to me. He originally started coming to church because it was important to me that we go as a family and then ended up converting.

When I went through this “natural food phase” and was packing herbal tea in his lunch instead of pop even though he caught flack for from his co-workers he supported me because he knew it was important to me. He drove with me 40 minutes to buy organic babyfood and he ate the tofu custard for dessert because it was important to me.

My husband has a heart of gold, he is kind, supportive, would rather spend time with his family then hang out with “the guys” and has never said a nasty verbal thing to me since the say I met him when I was just shy of 17.

I could go on but I think I’ve made my point.

So don’t pass judgement on the love we share -because you don’t have a clue.

*** 4. Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, [love] is not pompous, it is not inflated,
5. it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury,
6. it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.
7. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. ***
1 Cor 13:4-7

 

[Katie1723]

rayne89:

So don’t pass judgement on the love we share -because you don’t have a clue.

4. Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, [love] is not pompous, it is not inflated,
5. it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury,
6. it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.
***7. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. ***
1 Cor 13:4-7

Rayne, my dear, you misunderstand me. I was not saying that YOU or YOU husband cheats. I am saying in ANY relationship, boundaries need to be set. And for ME in MY relationship, I have, and stand by, my personal philosophy previously stated.
Personally, I feel that because we have “tolerated” or “made allowances for” certain actions, and not made people responsible for their actions, we have contributed to a “downfall” if you will of the family. I don’t profess to have a “perfect” life. But when I entered into that “contract” " covenant" (we are debating semantics here) my partner knew going in what would happen if that trust , fidelity or what have you was broken.
What really matters here is not what I think, or would do, it’s what YOU feel is right for you. It is wonderful that your husband stood by you. It should be that way.
But like I said, certain things are just not open for discussion with me. I tolerate many thing, adultery is not one of them.
~ Kathy ~

 

[Fox]

I am sorry for your problem indeed .

It really is your choice…you do have grounds for annulement of your marriage to her since she has commited adultery. Me personally I would get the annulement.

Now there is a child involved with this. I personally would like to know what the other person of the affair thinks of this, if any info on him is even known. It is not your child and the man she slept with needs to man up and take care of the child.

I personally would leave her and let her go with the man she cavorted with. I wouldn’t tolerate adultry and she will have to sleep in the bed she made.

You have every right to feel betrayed because you were, she has broken the covenant that you two made in God’s eyes.

I have been married for almost ten years now but, I tell you if my wife ever EVER did this to me she’d be out on her ear with her new lover.

 

[rayne89]

Katie1723:

Rayne, my dear, you misunderstand me. I was not saying that YOU or YOU husband cheats. I am saying in ANY relationship, boundaries need to be set. And for ME in MY relationship, I have, and stand by, my personal philosophy previously stated.
Personally, I feel that because we have “tolerated” or “made allowances for” certain actions, and not made people responsible for their actions, we have contributed to a “downfall” if you will of the family. I don’t profess to have a “perfect” life. But when I entered into that “contract” " covenant" (we are debating semantics here) my partner knew going in what would happen if that trust , fidelity or what have you was broken.
What really matters here is not what I think, or would do, it’s what YOU feel is right for you. It is wonderful that your husband stood by you. It should be that way.
But like I said, certain things are just not open for discussion with me. I tolerate many thing, adultery is not one of them.
~ Kathy ~

Kathy I don’t want to highjack this thread with our personal disagreement. I may start another thread on what a marriage covenant is and what that means.
Peace.

 

[otm]

Katie1723:

The guy was trying to make a living ! The only thing she was making was “whoopie” with somene she wasn’t married to.
~ Kathy ~

You are looking at this as if he was completely fautless. I know he was trying to make a living. If his lengthy and repeated absences were causing significant difficuties in the marriage (and neither of us has evidence of this at this point), would you give him a complete “pass”, or would you suggest that he and she should sit down and ahave a heart to heart discussion about it? Wat about the possibility that he continue diving, but look for other opportunities that don’t require the travel and the danger, such as, for example, shallower dives, and/or working for a company which desn’t require such travel? Or is she supposed to just lump it?

I in no way at all condone her behavior. I have, however, found that often when one party, in particular the wife, starts out on an affair, there was 1 or more serious problems at home that were not being addressed long prior to that, and the husband was at least partly at fault for that situation, which later developed into the current situation.

 

[otm]

Writer:

Thank you for your eleoquent and well thought-out post. I agree with the sentiments expressed above, but I still think there needs to be a pause in thought before we assume there were necessarily problems in the marriage on the husband’s part which precipitated the action. While I agree that the marriage as a whole, its environment if you will, is certainly not irrelevant to the situation at hand, I would suggest that it’s like comparing apples and oranges. The sin of adultery so overshadows and eclipses the routine and mundane range of husband’s likely shortcomings. I have been a close witness to at least two examples where your reasoning was not applicable, for example. In one occasion, the spouse finally had a psychotic break and attempted to murder her husband. His friends and family watched in disbelief as most people assumed he was at fault for the problems when that was indeed not the case. The other case was basicaly lust and, from what I have gathered from the parties involved, there was no desire at all on the part of the woman for a relationship outside marriage. The husband had not done anything wrong, although one might say he was pretty young and a little overwhelmed with married life.

As Dr. Laura has said to callers in these situations, it’s really easy to jump on the man and assume that there must be serious problems. I’m just not sure that’s a fair approach, and I am tired of husband and father-bashing in general. Having vented the above, I still am in basic agreement with your ultimate conclusions. Just because the sin took place, doesn’t mean its time to divorce. With God’s help and real counseling, healing can take place. Just make sure that the counselor isn’t like the Protestant pastor my friend received. (Divorce was the suggestion right off the bat there.)

I agree that all sorts of situations abound. what I have found is that in the majority (that is, more than 50%), when one party makes a serious move doing grevious harm to the marriage, and in particular when that party is the wife, one will find that there were other issues stewing for a long time, and that the husband was not paying attention, or was ignoring it.

I am not trying to bash men (I happen to be one), but I do know that men in general are not good at articualting their own feelings, and in general are equipped differently than women in the communications department. If you have attended a Marriage encounter, you might understand that communication seems to be at the root of problem solving. I am assuming the wife in this case didn’t have “round heels”, that is, wasn’t loose morally in general (she obviously was in the specifics). The question that needs to be asked is “How did they get to this position?” and the next question is “What part did each play in this situation getting to this point?”

 

[otm]

mosher:

On the first point there is always an assumption of the retention of the integrity of the sacramental bond.

Again, not trying to be dense, but as I read both the Petrine and Pauline privileges, they were the allowance not of separation, but of remarriage. Your suggestion that they were allowed to divorce implying eventual reconcilliation doesn’t make particular sense to me; that would apply to separation.

mosher:

On the second point it is a matter of formality.

My understanding is that it is more than formality. the presumption is that the marriage is sacramental, and while it (the marriage) is legally in existence the Church will not entertain a case of nullity because that would be counter to the presumption. They will not entertain it either during a separation, for the same reason that you state, that there is a presumption of reconcilliation. It is only after counseling has failed and a divorce is final (not filed) that a case will be heard.

 

[mumto5]

otm:

You are looking at this as if he was completely fautless. I know he was trying to make a living. If his lengthy and repeated absences were causing significant difficuties in the marriage (and neither of us has evidence of this at this point), would you give him a complete “pass”, or would you suggest that he and she should sit down and ahave a heart to heart discussion about it? Wat about the possibility that he continue diving, but look for other opportunities that don’t require the travel and the danger, such as, for example, shallower dives, and/or working for a company which desn’t require such travel? Or is she supposed to just lump it?

I don’t think anyone was saying he was necessarily faultless. But I have little tolerance for this line about how his absences may have contributed to the situation. The reason is that my husband is away regularly and yes, that causes problems, it’s hard to be here without help with five kids, especially with one being a baby, I’ve had to give up a lot of opportunities because of it. Sometimes there are not options.

How do you know they haven’t looked into alternatives? I know we have looked into alternatives and there aren’t any right now. Not without an unsustainable drop in income. So I have come to accept that this is just the way it is and because my husband needs to work, we have to deal with that part of the job.

In fact, knowing what the travel is like for my husband, I have even less sympathy with using the travel as an excuse. It’s not all fun and games for the traveller even though a lot of people assume it is. It’s darn hard work and something he’d prefer not to do at all. The suggestion that this is a valid reason/excuse for contributing to the infidelity makes me feel offended on behalf of my husband who works hard for his family.

At least when the OP is home, he is home. That’s more than most people could say of their travelling spouses.

So sorry, I have no sympathy with this argument at all.

otm:

I in no way at all condone her behavior. I have, however, found that often when one party, in particular the wife, starts out on an affair, there was 1 or more serious problems at home that were not being addressed long prior to that, and the husband was at least partly at fault for that situation, which later developed into the current situation.

Quite possibly but the thing to do in that situation is to address the problems - not go and have an affair or look for companionship outside the marriage. She made an active choice to do this and continue it. She thought she could have her cake and eat it.

 

[otm]

Mike O:

Diver Zero, God have mercy on you.

While this situation is tragic, what is also sad is the judgmental nonsense being served up by a number of posters on this thread.

It’s wonderfully simple to toss in your own detached opinions here, but I find it highly unlikely that people advising “keep the child” would do the same were this foisted upon them.

Diver Zero has made the correct decision. His wife sinned and his wife must pay the price, not him. He did nothing wrong. He is not bound by civil or moral law to have anything to do with this situation. Indeed, the fact that a woman would commit such a crime speaks volumes as the original validity of the marriage; clearly, she had no intention of fulfilling her vows. This “moment of weakness” nonsense is garbage.

An adulterer makes a concerted, willful decision to commit this crime. Plenty of opportunity exists to rescind such a decision.

As he noted, she did so repeatedly.

My opinion is relatively worthless, but then, so are those offered by other complete strangers who have no personal link to the situation beyond words read on a computer screen.

In short, the solution is genuine prayer. Do what you have said you will do. This “take the high ground” stuff is fine for theoretical situations, but when it actually happens, it’s not so simple as other posters have made it out to be.

I would submit that what Christ calls us to in the Gospels is forgiveness, not a mechanistic application of the laws. My recollection is that at least once or twice (and maybe even more) he called the Pharisees to task for being so quick to aplly the laws. Lest you think I am talking through my hat, you might re-read both the scene of the woman caught in adultery, and the comment to the rich young man - he said he kept all the commandments, and “Christ looked on him with love”; when he asked what more he should do, Christ said to sell all, and come follow him… which certainly implies a little bit more than just applying laws.

and the issue of her adultery says nothing at all, in and of itself, as to her original intention; it might be evidence of her lack of intent coupled with other evidence, but in and of itself it is not any more evidence of her original intent than it is that at some subsequent point in the relationship, she made a choice to sin.

 

[otm]

Katie1723:

Finally…a voice of reason. Most of the posters have given the “Catholic” answer, not the one they would give if they themselves were in the same situation.
~ Kathy ~

Don’t presume that some have not been in the same or a similar situation.

 

[otm]

Katie1723:

What I mean is that I would never cheat. There is NO need…no excuse…no explanation. And if HE cheated, there would be NO excuse…NO explanation I would believe. With me, I place that much value on my relationship, that if you so desire to break that “contract” for ANY reason whatsoever, we are over, done with , gone.
Rayne, you say you love your husband unconditionally. If that were true, and the reverse were true, then WHY would either cheat? If vows are that sacred for BOTH, then cheating is NOT an issue, and you should never have to worry.
Adultery by either party not only is emotionally devastating, but physically devastating as well, because you then sleep with everyone that person slept with and so on and so on. Why would anyone deliberately expose themselves AND their partner to that is beyond me.
~ Kathy ~

Why do people do that? that is a good question, since it is a sin that has been going on since the mind of man remembereth not… Another way to ask the question is “why do people act without thinking the whole thing through?” and a third might be “why does anyone ever commit a mortal sin?”

Asking that last question leads to the rathe solipsistic answer of some not so bright priests and theologians who are of the opinion that no one ever really commits a mortal sin, because they would not do so if they really understood how a mortal sin is a complete rejection of God; they must either not really understand that it is a complete rejection of God, or else they are not really rejecting God, but some mistaken image of God.

Which leads to the conclusion that we don’t really sin, we just make mistakes.

People do things because what choice is in front of them seems, at the moment, to be very good. They don’t think of the consequences, only the immediate apparent good. they think with hormones in full force (look at anger if you don’t believe me). Most don’t sit down and rationally plan each and every step; they don’t weight the plusses and minusses, they don’t consider who they might hurt - or they do, and they are acting in anger, desiring to hurt - another sin - the reasons are multitude. and the ultimately get down to an issue of pride: “I am going to do what I want”.

 

[StCsDavid]

Diver,

I’ve often thought the most powerful words in a marriage are not “i love you” , but rather “I forgive you.”

I can’t tell you what to do or which direction to turn. The only thing I can remind you of is the child your wife carries is innocent. The child is God’s own creation. The child derserves to have a two parent family in order to have the best chance at a healthy life.

You are going to go through all the stages of grief just as if someone died. In a sense, someone did die…the wife you thought you knew. Your anger is understandable and appropriate. She gave another man the gift that God gave to her to give exclusively to you. There’s no excuse for that…but there can be forgiveness. Easy for me to say in my comfy desk chair in Beaverton, Oregon…that I know. I also know God has given you a child. It may have come into your life in an unanticipated way, but unless you are intent on walking away from your wife, that child is your gift from God regardless of how it got here. Please treat this child as a gift and not a problem to be solved…or a bargaining chip to be played. Again, the child is innocent of your wife’s sin.

 

[otm]

mumto5:

I don’t think anyone was saying he was necessarily faultless. But I have little tolerance for this line about how his absences may have contributed to the situation. The reason is that my husband is away regularly and yes, that causes problems, it’s hard to be here without help with five kids, especially with one being a baby, I’ve had to give up a lot of opportunities because of it. Sometimes there are not options.

How do you know they haven’t looked into alternatives? I know we have looked into alternatives and there aren’t any right now. Not without an unsustainable drop in income. So I have come to accept that this is just the way it is and because my husband needs to work, we have to deal with that part of the job.

In fact, knowing what the travel is like for my husband, I have even less sympathy with using the travel as an excuse. It’s not all fun and games for the traveller even though a lot of people assume it is. It’s darn hard work and something he’d prefer not to do at all. The suggestion that this is a valid reason/excuse for contributing to the infidelity makes me feel offended on behalf of my husband who works hard for his family.

At least when the OP is home, he is home. That’s more than most people could say of their travelling spouses.

So sorry, I have no sympathy with this argument at all.

Quite possibly but the thing to do in that situation is to address the problems - not go and have an affair or look for companionship outside the marriage. She made an active choice to do this and continue it. She thought she could have her cake and eat it.

I am not sure you really got the jist of what I was saying. When marriages break up, they break up for a reason, or usually a series of reasons, and at the bottom of most of those is the issue of communication. Too often it is not problem solving, but communication that is lacking.

You tolerate your husband’s travel well, and that is wonderful. Rightly or wrongly, others don’t; and ignoring something that the partner is having a serious time dealing with is not going to result in a stronger marriage. It may only contribute to the distance and difficulties that we all have sometimes, or it may contribute to some serious difficulties that could have been headed off.

Neither of us knows what lead her to the adultery. But after 12 years of divorce experience, I do have some insights as to why people end up in front of a judge. Adultery, when it occurs, is not the reason, it is usually the last reason. It is the final break that started long before in something else.

The marriages I have seen healed after a serious break (adultery or other issues) are those in which both parties can acknowledge that they have not done all that they could do. I have yet to see a marriage break up in which there was not some responsiblity on the part of both parties. In some circumstances, the responsiblity was to pay attention to obvious clues prior to the marriage - alcohol use, drug use, infidelity, lack of honesty about numerous things, and the list goes on; but the wronged party was either not paying attention, refusing to acknowledge the evidence, or seeking a partner for all the wrong reasons.

The last one is a particular problem, for if the wronged spouse doesn’t come to terms with why they chose that individual for a partner, they are highly likely to choose another one with the same or similar issues.

Anyone who wants to blame the wife only, in this situation, is ignoring the fact that a relationship requires two parties, and both need to contribute something more than just showing up.