Wife will not go to confession

[TLM08]

See… this is where people like you get into sticky wickets. The teaching on birth control was NOT infallibly proclaimed. It is a discipline. It is not a required dogma.

Wanna know what the required dogma are? Read the Nicene Creed.

And YOU don’t know if anyone is going to Hell or not. You don’t know how, if, or when they repented. There are lots of people in Purgatory waiting for their chance to see God whom YOU have condemned to Hell.

You have got to be kidding. I didn’t condemn anyone to Hell. The catholic church teaches that artificial birth control is a mortal sin. This is church teaching. Unconfessed mortal sin on the soul at death sends you to Hell, not purgatory. That too is church teaching!

 

[shannyk]

See… this is where people like you get into sticky wickets. The teaching on birth control was NOT infallibly proclaimed. It is a discipline. It is not a required dogma.
.

Speak Up you are gravely mistaken. The prohibition on contraception is also the ongoing and unchanging teaching of the church, based on the natural moral law. It is, therefore, infallible. You are mistaken if you thinking that a declared ex cathedra statement of the Extraordoinary Magisterium is required in order for a matter to be required de fide. It isn’t.

catholic.com/library/Birth_Control.asp

Please do not confuse a man with good intentions. As you mentioned ABC is the MO of most Catholics and most Catholic husbands go right along happily with it. This man is not, he is concerned for his wife, his daughter, and wants as he rightfully should, to have a solid Catholic family. Please save the ABC arguments for another thread, Lord knows there are plenty of them.

 

[TLM08]

This is an attitude you need to get rid of right now. I understand you are still basking in the glow of “convert zeal”…

Converted zeal? I hate to tell you this, but if the catholic church is the True Church…this guy is right! You cannot believe 95% of church teaching. You see… this is the sad thing about post modern thinking when the truth is sacrificed for the sake of tolerance. You cannot be a catholic in a state of grace and condone the use of artificial birth control. Church teaching states that this is a mortal sin and so is not believing all of church teaching! Now either this is right, or it’s wrong.

 

[fabricdragon]

1. contraception, and other things, are mortal sins.
2. if you go to your death with an unforgiven (unconfessed) mortal sin you will go to Hell.

true.
BUT!!!
the Church teaches that there are limitations that can mitigate the sin from Mortal, to Venial. from “go to hell, go directly to Hell, do not pass Purgatory…” down to “ouch”

for a sin to be mortal you must

1. know it is a Sin
2. freely choose to do it
   3.do it anyway, knowing /believing that it is a sin.

Fortunately for many of us, myself included… many things that are VERY grave serious sins are either
1.not understood when we did them (like the idea that BC cant really be that bad) or
2. we did not freely choose (for instance even the church admits that a suicide might not go to Hell, because the depression and illness etc can cloud your mind and judgment )

so for example, i was informed that my prior use of BC was not a mortal sin (although i have indeed confessed it) because i TRULY didnt understand it was sinful.
and someone else already spoke up about the idea that their Tubal Ligation may not have been freely decided owing to pressure… etc.

so…
while your wife is in GRAVE DANGER! you may take comfort in the fact that if she truly doesnt believe that the BC issue is that serious… Her sin is mitigated by her lack of understanding.

this does not mean you shouldnt pray, fervently! for her soul… and that her guardian angel should help her… etc… but often love and prayer will make more inroads than argument.

meanwhile dont get too worked up about the Mortal Sin issue, because. after all… if she truly doesnt realize, its purgatorial, not Mortal… and if she does realize, and does it anyway… you have more serious issues.

oh, and BTW… i THINK there may be something, either an audio recording or a book, by Kimberly Hahn, wife of Scott Hahn, about Birth Control…

 

[KCT]

I doubt that she would talk to a priest about this issue. I don’t think that she feels comfortable, because she knows in her heart that it is wrong. I think that all I can do is pray for her.

Pray and Sacrifice!

 

[mkipp]

I just asked my wife is she wanted to go to confession with me tomorrow. Her response was “I don’t feel comfortable confessing my sins with a priest, and I can confess and discuss them with Jesus in prayer.” I was not an argument but just a quick discussion. I will keep praying and thank you all for your advice.

 

[turtle18]

I just asked my wife is she wanted to go to confession with me tomorrow. Her response was “I don’t feel comfortable confessing my sins with a priest, and I can confess and discuss them with Jesus in prayer.” I was not an argument but just a quick discussion. I will keep praying and thank you all for your advice.

Unfortunately her attitude represents the way the vast majority of Catholics “feel”. They will never make any spiritual progress. They will never see the beauty of our faith, left to them by Christ because they prefer to walk in darkness.

They wound & weaken the entire body of Christ. If one member is sick and won’t seek a physician, that part of the body becomes sick. Unfortunately, we have a very sick body right now. The fruits, no doubt, of Hippie era “feel-good” Catholicism. Just like everything else in our society and culture, it is artificial.

I beg you, although you are not cupable for your wife’s sin, please refrain from the marital act until she is off birth control. Morally you may be off the hook BUT just consider that the birth control she is using is probably an abortificant. Try to offer it up.

And I am not getting what previous posters said about how using birth control could potentially not be a mortal sin. Every Catholic knows that the Church teachs birth control is a sin; they just don’t believe it. There is a huge difference there.

 

[Speak_Up]

And I am not getting what previous posters said about how using birth control could potentially not be a mortal sin. Every Catholic knows that the Church teachs birth control is a sin; they just don’t believe it. There is a huge difference there.

Catholic snobs. This woman is a cradle Catholic. Do you have ANY IDEA how poor catechesis has been over the last 20-30 years?! I am telling you that the vast majority of Catholics DO NOT UNDERSTAND the teaching on birth control fully, they do not understand why that teaching is in place. You can tell someone the “what” but if they don’t truly understand and embrace the “why” then that teaching will never become truly part of them and their faith. Their lack of understanding is so bad as to be insurmountable in some cases. That mitigates culpability. If you don’t understand that, then do those of us who do know about and understand mitigated culpability get to sneer and scoff at how unCatholic you are, since you do not fully know and understand this well publicized and expounded teaching of our Church?

I also stand by what I said earlier. This teaching is a discipline, NOT a dogma. Look up the terms… there is a BIG difference.

 

[whatevergirl]

Catholic snobs. This woman is a cradle Catholic. Do you have ANY IDEA how poor catechesis has been over the last 20-30 years?! I am telling you that the vast majority of Catholics DO NOT UNDERSTAND the teaching on birth control fully, they do not understand why that teaching is in place. You can tell someone the “what” but if they don’t truly understand and embrace the “why” then that teaching will never become truly part of them and their faith. Their lack of understanding is so bad as to be insurmountable in some cases. That mitigates culpability. If you don’t understand that, then do those of us who do know about and understand mitigated culpability get to sneer and scoff at how unCatholic you are, since you do not fully know and understand this well publicized and expounded teaching of our Church?

.

*bolded for emphasis, by me.

I agree with this…that is why you can’t force someone to confession. The person has to first understand the ‘why’ behind the sin. Without fully understanding, the person won’t be as contrite, or completely contrite. And you’re not saying it erradicates the culpability, but it mitigates it, considering that the person is not understanding of the ‘why’ behind the sin. I know what you are saying here…Good points.*

 

[TLM08]

Catholic snobs. This woman is a cradle Catholic. Do you have ANY IDEA how poor catechesis has been over the last 20-30 years?! I am telling you that the vast majority of Catholics DO NOT UNDERSTAND the teaching on birth control fully, they do not understand why that teaching is in place. You can tell someone the “what” but if they don’t truly understand and embrace the “why” then that teaching will never become truly part of them and their faith. Their lack of understanding is so bad as to be insurmountable in some cases. That mitigates culpability. If you don’t understand that, then do those of us who do know about and understand mitigated culpability get to sneer and scoff at how unCatholic you are, since you do not fully know and understand this well publicized and expounded teaching of our Church?

I also stand by what I said earlier. This teaching is a discipline, NOT a dogma. Look up the terms… there is a BIG difference.

What does the Bible teach about birth control?
*"To begin with, we know God looks approvingly on the bearing of children. That is evident from Titus 2:3-5 and Paul’s exhortation to young widows in 1 Timothy 5:14. Psalm 127:3-5 says children are gifts from God and the man who has many of them is blessed. A large family involves increased responsibility, but children raised in a godly way will influence the world for good and for God’s glory. Nevertheless, nothing in Scripture prohibits married couples from practicing birth control, either for a limited time to delay childbearing, or permanently when they have borne children and determine that their family is complete.

However, not all methods of birth control are acceptable. Abortion, perhaps the most widely used “birth control” method today, is tantamount to murder (cf. Exodus 21:22, where the killing of an unborn fetus is punishable by death). Psalm 139:13-16 clearly indicates fetal life is human life. Any form of birth control that destroys the fetus or fertilized ovum rather than preventing conception is therefore wrong. Other methods of birth control, including non-abortive forms of the pill, condoms, and the common surgical procedures of tubal ligation or vasectomy, do not pose a problem biblically. If both spouses are persuaded in their consciences before God that they should have no more children, no Scripture prohibits them from carrying through with that decision. In our viewpoint, birth control is biblically permissible.

At the same time, couples should not practice birth control if it violates their consciences (Romans 14:23)–not because birth control is inherently sinful, but because it is always wrong to violate the conscience. The answer to a wrongly informed conscience is not to violate it, but rather to correct and rightly inform one’s conscience with biblical truth."*

This is the reasonable christian biblical position on birth control. (Taken from John Macarthur at Grace To You Ministries.)

 

[Speak_Up]

TLM, you are arguing with things I am not saying. When you respond to the things I AM saying, then maybe we can have a productive discussion.

 

[kage_ar]

See… this is where people like you get into sticky wickets. The teaching on birth control was NOT infallibly proclaimed. It is a discipline. It is not a required dogma.

Wanna know what the required dogma are? Read the Nicene Creed.

Doctrine and dogma are WAAAAYYYY more than the Creed, heck, the Creed does not even cover transubstantiation.

Artificial birth control = sin is doctrine, cannot change.

Pick up a Catechism, it will lead you to all sorts of wonderful documents that explain the teachings of Holy Mother Church.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I just asked my wife is she wanted to go to confession with me tomorrow. Her response was “I don’t feel comfortable confessing my sins with a priest, and I can confess and discuss them with Jesus in prayer.” I was not an argument but just a quick discussion. I will keep praying and thank you all for your advice.

Ask her to keep you company as you go. She can sit in the pew and talk to Jesus. Jesus might definitely speak to her. She could do that for you as a favor, no? She’ll come back…pm me if you like…I was once your wife.

 

[kage_ar]

I just asked my wife is she wanted to go to confession with me tomorrow. Her response was “I don’t feel comfortable confessing my sins with a priest, and I can confess and discuss them with Jesus in prayer.” I was not an argument but just a quick discussion. I will keep praying and thank you all for your advice.

It really sounds like she has a non-Catholic influence in her life. Does she have a close friend, or is she maybe watching a TV program of “me and Jesus” protestant teaching?

 

[happymommy]

It really sounds like she has a non-Catholic influence in her life. Does she have a close friend, or is she maybe watching a TV program of “me and Jesus” protestant teaching?

I was thinking the same thing. That is how I felt about it too, before I really understood what confession really was!

As far as the NFP debate, Kimberly Hahn has a beautiful book called Life Giving Love that goes into their use of birth control and how their marriage changed for the better when they moved away from it and used NFP.