Wife with Vaginismus / Unconsummated Marriage

[Ocidge]

Hi,

I’m looking for some advice and I think I know the answer but I would still be interested in your opinion.

I have been married for almost eight years and I have not yet had sex with my wife. I won’t go into too much detail but I believe she suffers from this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaginismus

I felt I was doing the right thing when I waited until I was married before having sex. Lots of people around me seemed to be doing it right from back when I was in school. But I felt kind of proud of myself for waiting. But, I’m nearly 40 years of age now and it seems I may never get to experience it. I’m disappointed too that I probably won’t have any children. But - and I know this is is not a good way to be thinking - in my mind I still feel like I did back when I was in school, with urges to have sex - rather than thinking of having children.

I did get to mention my situation to a priest a couple of years ago and he said it wasn’t wrong to wish to be able to have sex with my wife and to start a family. He suggested looking into divorce and once that process is completed then an annulment from the Church could be sought.

But, I do not wish to get a divorce. I do love my wife a lot and I feel that she has a sickness and when we were married I agreed to stay with her in sickness and in health etc.

That brings me to my question… The reason why Catholics believe we cannot normally divorce and re-marry is because once we consummate a marriage then those two people become one and so are bound to each other for life. But, if we have not consummated our marriage and it’s unlikely we ever will, then am I technically allowed to have sex with another person - if that other person is the only person I ever have sex with?

There is no one else in my life who I’m thinking I want to have sex with but perhaps I could have sex with a prostitute some time before I die?

I feel bad even asking that and I don’t want to cheat on my wife and I don’t want to disappoint God. The “angel” on one shoulder (so to speak) is telling me to be happy that I have a wife who loves me and that maybe God doesn’t want me to have any children. Like maybe if I did then maybe one might grow up to be a bad person. But the “devil” on my other shoulder is telling me that every adult I know has been able to experience what it’s like to have sex and many of them have been lucky enough to have children with their wives and husbands. So, why can’t I experience it myself, even once?

I am pretty sure that the “angel” is telling me the right thing. But, as I rapidly approach my 40th birthday I’m beginning to wonder if there’s anything left to really look forward to in my life.

Thanks.

~ O.

 

[Irishmom2]

But, as I rapidly approach my 40th birthday I’m beginning to wonder if there’s anything left to really look forward to in my life.

Really?

If you can never have sex with your wife that means you have nothing left to look forward to in life?

I think your priorities may need adjusting.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

No, of course you may not commit adultery. You should be discussing this with her doctor.

 

[Ophelia23]

Really?

If you can never have sex with your wife that means you have nothing left to look forward to in life?

I think your priorities may need adjusting.

I think this is a little unfair. You generally come from a place of kindness and I know this because I am a regular member here, but this is a new member who is asking a very personal question. I doubt that he needs judgement such as this, let alone as a fist response to his first ever post. Sensitivity goes a very, very long way. Perhaps saying he has nothing to look forward to is rather melodramatic, but if this situation is true then we can’t blame the man for being distraught.

OP, I have no real advice for how to fix your situation. I just feel sad reading your post, and wanted to voice my support for your hurt. You absolutely may not commit adultery, no matter how hurt you feel. This needs to be addressed by a doctor, not by somebody else’s body. Have you and your wife discussed this? Is she willing to see a physician regarding these problems? Man and wife are intended to be intimate with one another. I am in no way suggesting divorce–I really commend your attitude that your wife is ill and therefore you will remain with her. We do vow through sickness and through health. However, I genuinely pray that your wife does her part on addressing whatever this issue is.

My prayers are with you.

 

[ClearWater]

Hi,

I’m looking for some advice and I think I know the answer but I would still be interested in your opinion.

I have been married for almost eight years and I have not yet had sex with my wife. I won’t go into too much detail but I believe she suffers from this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaginismus

I felt I was doing the right thing when I waited until I was married before having sex. Lots of people around me seemed to be doing it right from back when I was in school. But I felt kind of proud of myself for waiting. But, I’m nearly 40 years of age now and it seems I may never get to experience it. I’m disappointed too that I probably won’t have any children. But - and I know this is is not a good way to be thinking - in my mind I still feel like I did back when I was in school, with urges to have sex - rather than thinking of having children.

I did get to mention my situation to a priest a couple of years ago and he said it wasn’t wrong to wish to be able to have sex with my wife and to start a family. He suggested looking into divorce and once that process is completed then an annulment from the Church could be sought.

But, I do not wish to get a divorce. I do love my wife a lot and I feel that she has a sickness and when we were married I agreed to stay with her in sickness and in health etc.

That brings me to my question… The reason why Catholics believe we cannot normally divorce and re-marry is because once we consummate a marriage then those two people become one and so are bound to each other for life. But, if we have not consummated our marriage and it’s unlikely we ever will, then am I technically allowed to have sex with another person - if that other person is the only person I ever have sex with?

There is no one else in my life who I’m thinking I want to have sex with but perhaps I could have sex with a prostitute some time before I die?

I feel bad even asking that and I don’t want to cheat on my wife and I don’t want to disappoint God. The “angel” on one shoulder (so to speak) is telling me to be happy that I have a wife who loves me and that maybe God doesn’t want me to have any children. Like maybe if I did then maybe one might grow up to be a bad person. But the “devil” on my other shoulder is telling me that every adult I know has been able to experience what it’s like to have sex and many of them have been lucky enough to have children with their wives and husbands. So, why can’t I experience it myself, even once?

I am pretty sure that the “angel” is telling me the right thing. But, as I rapidly approach my 40th birthday I’m beginning to wonder if there’s anything left to really look forward to in my life.

Thanks.

~ O.

Had she ever tried any kind of counseling or therapy for this?

Had you ever considered marital counseling, because really, in the ideal, a friend told me it takes a LOT of “chemistry” to make a marriage work.

Had she ever tried, “sensate focus”, say?

Also, if she wouldn’t go, maybe you could, to talk to someone about this.

I think you are right to want a sexual relationship, because the Church would even allow you an annulment for that reason, alone, because that’s considered part of marriage.

If you have never experienced that in your marriage, not even once, you have every right to be concerned.

I hope you will get yourselves some therapy and counseling, or at least try that, to see if there might be some treatment that could possibly help.

 

[z_0101]

That brings me to my question… The reason why Catholics believe we cannot normally divorce and re-marry is because once we consummate a marriage then those two people become one and so are bound to each other for life. ** But, if we have not consummated our marriage and it’s unlikely we ever will, then am I technically allowed to have sex with another person** - if that other person is the only person I ever have sex with?

NO, you cannot have sex outside of the context of marriage… period, final, no loop holes.

IMHO: You and your wife need to see a medical professional and get this potentially physical medical condition situation cleared up and potentially any psychological issues - at least get the answer as to what is hurting your wife and hopefully a solution.

praying for you

 

[Irishmom2]

I think this is a little unfair. You generally come from a place of kindness and I know this because I am a regular member here, but this is a new member who is asking a very personal question. I doubt that he needs judgement such as this, let alone as a fist response to his first ever post. Sensitivity goes a very, very long way. Perhaps saying he has nothing to look forward to is rather melodramatic, but if this situation is true then we can’t blame the man for being distraught.

I am sorry you feel this way. I guess a part of me doesn’t really believe he doesn’t know the answer to whether he can have sex with someone else. I think that I spoke from a place of kindness for anyone else reading along who would find his thinking he has nothing to look forward to because he will never have sex to be troublesome. There are probably other people out there with the same problem or other things going on in their life that don’t need to hear they have nothing to look forward to. So I am sorry if you found me to be judgmental. You are correct, I did find his post in part to be melodramatic.

 

[pensmama87]

You should be able to discuss openly with your wife about her health (and she should feel comfortable to discuss it with you.) If that’s not happening, I suggest marital counseling.

If she does have this condition, it can be treatable.

No, it is not OK to cheat on your wife because she might have a medical condition that makes sex difficult/impossible.

 

[pianistclare]

Eight years, and you think she may suffer from this?
Take her to the Doctor now.
What is taking so long to get a firm diagnosis and treatment options?

 

[Ocidge]

Hi,

Thank you to everybody who has responded, I appreciate you taking the time and to share your thoughts.

I now know that what I was thinking (about wanting to have sex with someone else) is ridiculous!

Regarding my “not having anything to look forward to” comment. That is just a recent feeling and it’s more to do with not being able to have children and all that involves as they grow into adults. But, I admit that a small part of it is to do with sex as well. I cannot pretend that before I was married, I wasn’t looking forward to having a sexual relationship with my wife. That was something I did look forward to, in the past. Those urges haven’t gone away but hope has.

I know there are plenty of people who have taken vows of celibacy and of course there are lots of single people etc. But, in some ways I think it’s harder when you’re married. We do kind of have an intimate relationship, (not as much now as when we first got married). But I find it difficult seeing my wife naked and sleeping beside her every night but knowing nothing is ever going to happen.

I think it might be easy for someone who is married, has experienced sex and has children, to dismiss my feelings as trivial, because I think after children, sex becomes less important in a marriage. But, as a married virgin of nearly 40, it is not easy for me.

My wife has seen a doctor but nothing suggested has worked. She’s not prepared to seek professional help again.

Anyway, thank you for confirming what I really did know deep down, that I shouldn’t be even thinking about having sex!

~ O.

 

[DarkLight]

Anyway, thank you for confirming what I really did know deep down, that I shouldn’t be even thinking about having sex!

~ O.

May I suggest this is a bad way to think about it?

Humans are sexual beings. It is normal and natural to think about sex. It is entirely ok for you to be thinking about these things, to be frustrated and upset and want more. Do not beat yourself up for desiring such things.

Find a different priest to talk to!

 

[triumphguy]

Taking a vow of celibacy and having celibacy imposed upon you are two different things… one is not like the other.

It’s time to sit down with your wife and a trusted counsellor though.

 

[pianistclare]

Also, you do know that being sexual with your wife doesn’t only mean vaginal sex.
Many people who are very ill still manage to connect intimately with their spouse.

 

[LongingSoul]

Hi,

I’m looking for some advice and I think I know the answer but I would still be interested in your opinion.

I have been married for almost eight years and I have not yet had sex with my wife. I won’t go into too much detail but I believe she suffers from this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaginismus

I felt I was doing the right thing when I waited until I was married before having sex. Lots of people around me seemed to be doing it right from back when I was in school. But I felt kind of proud of myself for waiting. But, I’m nearly 40 years of age now and it seems I may never get to experience it. I’m disappointed too that I probably won’t have any children. But - and I know this is is not a good way to be thinking - in my mind I still feel like I did back when I was in school, with urges to have sex - rather than thinking of having children.

I did get to mention my situation to a priest a couple of years ago and he said it wasn’t wrong to wish to be able to have sex with my wife and to start a family. He suggested looking into divorce and once that process is completed then an annulment from the Church could be sought.

But, I do not wish to get a divorce. I do love my wife a lot and I feel that she has a sickness and when we were married I agreed to stay with her in sickness and in health etc.

That brings me to my question… The reason why Catholics believe we cannot normally divorce and re-marry is because once we consummate a marriage then those two people become one and so are bound to each other for life. But, if we have not consummated our marriage and it’s unlikely we ever will, then am I technically allowed to have sex with another person - if that other person is the only person I ever have sex with?

There is no one else in my life who I’m thinking I want to have sex with but perhaps I could have sex with a prostitute some time before I die?

I feel bad even asking that and I don’t want to cheat on my wife and I don’t want to disappoint God. The “angel” on one shoulder (so to speak) is telling me to be happy that I have a wife who loves me and that maybe God doesn’t want me to have any children. Like maybe if I did then maybe one might grow up to be a bad person. But the “devil” on my other shoulder is telling me that every adult I know has been able to experience what it’s like to have sex and many of them have been lucky enough to have children with their wives and husbands. So, why can’t I experience it myself, even once?

I am pretty sure that the “angel” is telling me the right thing. But, as I rapidly approach my 40th birthday I’m beginning to wonder if there’s anything left to really look forward to in my life.

Thanks.

~ O.

I would suggest that you find yourself a good Catholic supportive male counsellor as soon as you can. Ring the Cathedral office of your diocese Cathedral for some suggestions. I sense that you are beginning to experience the common midlife crisis stage.

I personally have enormous empathy with you for a different but similar reason. I have been in a 27 year marriage to a man who while I was sexually available whenever possible… has never said ‘I love you’ or cuddled me or even held my hand for affection. He is very distant and rejects intimacy. It was only after many years that I realised it was probably due to an autistic streak and I’ve accepted that I will most probably never know the intimacy and love I desire but I fully understand the existential grief that you are now beginning to experience.

The doubts and rebellious fantasies you are starting to experience could evolve into a sort of rage and sense of entitlement that could overwhelm your conscience with no real positive outcome. I thank God constantly that I sort help from counselling and with a spiritual director.

You have my sincerest prayers and hope for Gods blessings.

 

[Crown_of_Stars]

I will pray for you and your wife. I can’t offer advice, really, because everything the others before me have told you seem like nice responses. I just wanted to comment because I feel for your wife. I know exactly what she must be going through because I, too, have had this difficulty. That’s why I have no children, besides which I’ve been told I’m too small to carry, and would probably have difficulty carrying. Female examinations were almost impossible for me, they were so painful they were traumatic and I was so terrified of them that I stopped having them years ago and will never let anyone touch me again. So, yes, I feel for your wife.

 

[Bspencer]

A couple thoughts;

1. you stated that your wife has seen a ‘medical professional’. she may well have vaginismus, but she needs to be seen by an OB/GYN physician for a diagnosis. if she does have this condition, it is almost always treatable
2. what does your wife want to do. you have not mentioned what she wants. is she interested in consumating the marriage?

 

[z_0101]

…
I think it might be easy for someone who is married, has experienced sex and has children, to dismiss my feelings as trivial, because I think after children, sex becomes less important in a marriage. But, as a married virgin of nearly 40, it is not easy for me.

My wife has seen a doctor but nothing suggested has worked. She’s not prepared to seek professional help again.

Anyway, thank you for confirming what I really did know deep down, that I shouldn’t be even thinking about having sex!

~ O.

• I have been married for 20+, have 4 kids, and no, I do not in the least dismiss or make light of your situation. It’s a horrible place to be.

and no, sex hasn’t taken a lessor value/role in my marriage…

often just tired, so we have to make an effort!
often the children require more attention… so we have to make an effort

THANK THE LORD for our closest friends, we will babysit their kids for a weekend and then they will watch our kids for a weekend, it’s been our xmas-gift to each other for three or for years now… DATE NIGHT (oh… weekend). Totally the best to know that your kids are in the best possible hands, goto the movies, rent hotel room, eat a steak dinner, goto Mass as husband and wife… and not have to worry about the kids and did they goto Mass… you betcha they did because they’re with their God-Parents
… no
…sex is part of a healthy marriage.

• Your wife has a duty to herself, her husband, and our Lord to seek proper medical help. The lack of sexual desire can be an indicator of several serious medical conditions. She owes it to herself to seek medical help, I strongly suggest that she see an endocrinologist and have a full hormone panel study performed. Especially her thyroid-T3, T4, and Free-T3 and testosterone levels.
  —>>> Talk to your family doctor about this situation and tell him about her refusal to get any effective treatment and follow the doctor’s advice
  Failing to seek reasonable medical care for oneself is (imho) a sin and (once again IMHO) potentially mortal sin unless one can show that the treatment is intolerable (ie chemo).
• It is natural to desire intercourse with your wife. You should not feel bad about thinking about having sex with your wife… such thoughts are natural and part of the marriage covenant in that there is a deep desire to share completely of yourself with your spouse.

Satin is taking advantage of this situation…

1. in keeping your wife from seeking the medical care she needs
2. in attacking you at a moment of normal human weakness…

IMHO
This is a reasonable case to force the issue to seek medical help.
It is not normal not to want to have intercourse with one’s spouse.
This one is either worth the fight, or, IMHO, go get an annulment and a divorce as there was or is a defect in the foundation of the marriage.

 

[z_0101]

I will pray for you and your wife. I can’t offer advice, really, because everything the others before me have told you seem like nice responses. I just wanted to comment because I feel for your wife. I know exactly what she must be going through because I, too, have had this difficulty. That’s why I have no children, besides which I’ve been told I’m too small to carry, and would probably have difficulty carrying. Female examinations were almost impossible for me, they were so painful they were traumatic and I was so terrified of them that I stopped having them years ago and will never let anyone touch me again. So, yes, I feel for your wife.

I’ll pray for you too COS…
(sounds like you may also have had some OB/GYN that were not sympathetic to your condition. Woman’s health medicine has been very slow to develop and some older OBs didn’t understand this condition very well. You might want to find a younger, female, OB and discuss this situation with her).

 

[catholicmamajoy]

Encourage your wife to see an OB/GYN she is comfortable with, as this is dealing with an issue that obviously goes beyond a physical discomfort. She may be more open and responsive to medical advice with a female GYN and want to see the physician without you in the exam room, so all you can do is really be supportive and encouraging that she seek medical treatment. She’s not a child, so simply “taking her to a doctor” isn’t going to work, especially with the emotional and oftentimes, psychological issues, that come with the diagnosis of vaginismus. I pray that you and she find resolution and peace with this situation that is disrupting your marriage.

 

[CthgeDelendaEst]

If you have never had sex with your wife, I’m not sure how you could diagnose vaginismus. Usually this is discovered when the woman has a lot of pain during penetration. If you’ve never reached this point, how would you know? Has she complained of pain during pelvic exams (assuming she has had one in the past)? Does she use tampons? A woman with vaginismus would likely find those painful as well.

Your situation is terrible, and you have my sympathy. Physical problems need to be ruled out, but I would imagine sex therapy for the both of you is more important. If your wife refuses treatment, I think this would be one of those few cases where an annulment is warranted. You will have to decide if you can handle this situation for the rest of your life.

A few other thoughts -

1. Your wife may simply be asexual. I’m assuming you talked about sex before getting married, what did she say? Is she a virgin as well?
2. There may be sexual abuse of some sort in her past.

You have two options - accept the situation as it is, focus on the good qualities in your marriage, and never bring it up again. OR, it’s ultimatum time - we (emphasis on we) get help for this, or I’m leaving. Good luck to you.