Wife with Vaginismus / Unconsummated Marriage

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Ocidge said:
Hi,

I’m looking for some advice and I think I know the answer but I would still be interested in your opinion.

I have been married for almost eight years and I have not yet had sex with my wife. I won’t go into too much detail but I believe she suffers from this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaginismus

I felt I was doing the right thing when I waited until I was married before having sex. Lots of people around me seemed to be doing it right from back when I was in school. But I felt kind of proud of myself for waiting. But, I’m nearly 40 years of age now and it seems I may never get to experience it. I’m disappointed too that I probably won’t have any children. But - and I know this is is not a good way to be thinking - in my mind I still feel like I did back when I was in school, with urges to have sex - rather than thinking of having children.

I did get to mention my situation to a priest a couple of years ago and he said it wasn’t wrong to wish to be able to have sex with my wife and to start a family. He suggested looking into divorce and once that process is completed then an annulment from the Church could be sought.

But, I do not wish to get a divorce. I do love my wife a lot and I feel that she has a sickness and when we were married I agreed to stay with her in sickness and in health etc.

That brings me to my question… The reason why Catholics believe we cannot normally divorce and re-marry is because once we consummate a marriage then those two people become one and so are bound to each other for life. But, if we have not consummated our marriage and it’s unlikely we ever will, then am I technically allowed to have sex with another person - if that other person is the only person I ever have sex with?

There is no one else in my life who I’m thinking I want to have sex with but perhaps I could have sex with a prostitute some time before I die?

I feel bad even asking that and I don’t want to cheat on my wife and I don’t want to disappoint God. The “angel” on one shoulder (so to speak) is telling me to be happy that I have a wife who loves me and that maybe God doesn’t want me to have any children. Like maybe if I did then maybe one might grow up to be a bad person. But the “devil” on my other shoulder is telling me that every adult I know has been able to experience what it’s like to have sex and many of them have been lucky enough to have children with their wives and husbands. So, why can’t I experience it myself, even once?

I am pretty sure that the “angel” is telling me the right thing. But, as I rapidly approach my 40th birthday I’m beginning to wonder if there’s anything left to really look forward to in my life.

Thanks.

~ O.
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I strongly recommend that your wife seek the help of a knowledgeable gynecologist. Conditions such as these are often very amenable to treatment. I also recommend counselling for you both.
 
It seems to me that the first step would be for her to see a doctor.
 
rcmartinez said:
She went to a doctor just once. Didn’t bother with a 2nd opinion or even deeper therapy. All the attention and pity is going to the “wife” while the husband is abandoned to just suffer, think about going to a prostitute or blame himself for desiring God’s gift of marital sex. I’m certain the priest he spoke to, in confidence, was given a more detailed account of husbands issue, and the priest suggested an annulment. I have no reason to doubt that the priest discerned a serious wrong being done to the husband for such a drastic solution.
This problem is not at all new and was addressed by Paul and Peter in their epistles. Last time I checked the church was still “apostolic”. I quote again, “wives submit unto your husbands”. Reality tends to trump all errant idealism. Pax Dominus Vobiscum
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Wow. I can’t believe this. You have no idea what this woman may have went through to have developed this problem in the first place. Victims of sexual abuse usually don’t just jump on the bandwagon to head off to the doctors for a pelvic exam or start spilling their guts with some complete stranger about what may have caused this condition. They are ashamed to talk about it. You keep bringing up this “submission” verse. How about the verse for husbands where they are to give themselves up for their wives. There are some men out there who give up marital relations for a time (or permanently) for the health of their wife. You seem to be fixated on a wife’s submission, but have ignored the fact that for many woman, a violation of a sexual nature is the worst thing that can happen to them. Remember all those female saints who would rather die a violent death than to be forced into sex against their will? Regardless if she is married and her husband is a loving, compassionate, and very patient man (and by the account he has shared here, he is), her recovering from an incident (or years) of abuse that often leads to vaginismus isn’t helped by pulling some submission verse out of the Bible to demand sex. You keep blaming the wife for a condition that you have no knowledge about. Sure, she hasn’t been keen about getting treatment, but as I explained to you, it can be a very traumatic thing to deal with. The couple needs to get to the root of the problem and bringing up submission to someone who was likely violated isn’t going to help her progress.
 
LightBound said:
Wow. I can’t believe this. You have no idea what this woman may have went through to have developed this problem in the first place. Victims of sexual abuse usually don’t just jump on the bandwagon to head off to the doctors for a pelvic exam or start spilling their guts with some complete stranger about what may have caused this condition.
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I just want to point out to you that the OP said his wife said there was no abuse. After 8 years, I think her husband is not a stranger and she would have told him if she were abused. Maybe you didn’t read that part so I thought you might want to know that.
 
sdeco said:
I had this exact problem when I first got married and I cured it in three months with vaginal dilators. Go to vaginismus.com and get the vaginal dilators. They will cure the problem. You don’t need all these conselors and spiritual directors. Its completely treatable. Your priest is ignorant and I am really appalled he would suggest divorce.
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Sdeco:
I am very happy you were able to do this by yourself and for your marriage! You certainly are however, the exception to the rule - once again, I applaud you ability to overcome this horrible affliction.

However, unlike yourself, many (and I may go out on a limb by saying, most) people will require some medical and psychological help. In this case, we don’t really know what OP’s wife’s issue(s) actually are, just an assumption/guess. There are so many possible complications that could be causing OP’s wife to be this way that, IMNSHO, she needs to seek professional help - for all we know, she may have some tumor in the brain that is causing this problem!

As for name calling a priest? Taking offense at what the priest said?! That my dear neighbor is quite unwarranted. We do not have the entire conversation that occurred between OP and Fr; thus, Fr. may have been in a much better position to make such a recommendation.
 
LightBound said:
Wow. I can’t believe this. You have no idea what this woman may have went through to have developed this problem in the first place. Victims of sexual abuse usually don’t just jump on the bandwagon to head off to the doctors for a pelvic exam or start spilling their guts with some complete stranger about what may have caused this condition. They are ashamed to talk about it. You keep bringing up this “submission” verse. How about the verse for husbands where they are to give themselves up for their wives. There are some men out there who give up marital relations for a time (or permanently) for the health of their wife. You seem to be fixated on a wife’s submission, but have ignored the fact that for many woman, a violation of a sexual nature is the worst thing that can happen to them. Remember all those female saints who would rather die a violent death than to be forced into sex against their will? Regardless if she is married and her husband is a loving, compassionate, and very patient man (and by the account he has shared here, he is), her recovering from an incident (or years) of abuse that often leads to vaginismus isn’t helped by pulling some submission verse out of the Bible to demand sex. You keep blaming the wife for a condition that you have no knowledge about. Sure, she hasn’t been keen about getting treatment, but as I explained to you, it can be a very traumatic thing to deal with. The couple needs to get to the root of the problem and bringing up submission to someone who was likely violated isn’t going to help her progress.
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The “wife” seems to have no interest in addressing the problem. For this to be truly a marriage, she needs to be working toward consummation–using whatever medical, psychological, or other tools that are necessary.
 
Thank you to those who pointed out that the OP says there was no abuse. I did miss that part, but it’s very important to know that if she was abused or assaulted at some point prior to meeting her husband, it may be manifesting itself in this physical form. While it’s sad to think about, many woman are so ashamed of a previous rape or molestation that they keep it from their spouse because they are worried he will feel like they are “damaged good”, which of course they are not. She would not be the first woman to deny any abuse to her husband, when it did occur. I’ve known more than one woman who couldn’t share with spouse what happened to her as a child, because no matter how much she loved her husband, she just couldn’t trust men. It can happen in all cultures, religions, ethnicities, and socioeconomic backgrounds. Of course, this may not have anything to do with the PP’s wife. She may have never had a negative or violent encounter in her life. Regardless, she does need to seek medical help with this problem.
 
Or, she could have a disordered view of the sexual act, and as a result, terrified.
He said at some point, that they were TOB fans, Maybe the “ideal” is what she thinks they can never achieve? I don’t know…just thinkin out loud…
 
pianistclare said:
Or, she could have a disordered view of the sexual act, and as a result, terrified.
He said at some point, that they were TOB fans, Maybe the “ideal” is what she thinks they can never achieve? I don’t know…just thinkin out loud…
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Agree. We have seen what porn has done to distort the view of sex- maybe she’s trying to reconcile the world’s view with the Church’s view and she’s coming up scared and confused and feeling inadequate.

Whatever the cause of this is, I still say the man who kept trying to play the “wifely submission” card is not getting that this is an extremely painful thing for her, not to mention almost physically impossible. It’s not a matter of wifely submission, it’s a matter of anatomical impossibility until her condition is resolved.
 
LightBound said:
Thank you to those who pointed out that the OP says there was no abuse. I did miss that part, but it’s very important to know that if she was abused or assaulted at some point prior to meeting her husband, it may be manifesting itself in this physical form. While it’s sad to think about, many woman are so ashamed of a previous rape or molestation that they keep it from their spouse because they are worried he will feel like they are “damaged good”, which of course they are not. She would not be the first woman to deny any abuse to her husband, when it did occur. I’ve known more than one woman who couldn’t share with spouse what happened to her as a child, because no matter how much she loved her husband, she just couldn’t trust men. It can happen in all cultures, religions, ethnicities, and socioeconomic backgrounds. Of course, this may not have anything to do with the PP’s wife. She may have never had a negative or violent encounter in her life. Regardless, she does need to seek medical help with this problem.
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I am wondering what happened with the doctor. Vaginismus can be treated very badly by doctors - even without it I’ve dealt with a doctor who insisted on continuing an exam despite very intense pain. And who said “the exam shouldn’t hurt, there’s nothing wrong” like that therefore meant it didn’t hurt.

She does need medical help, but I’m wondering if she feels like the doctors just won’t care or will just make it hurt worse.
 
I hate to say this, but I will.

I think the wife is truly frigid and hides it behind a veil of so called pain.
I truly believe she knew it before the marriage.
Good men get screwed all the time by devious women. (and visa versa).
The priest perceived something very wrong to suggest a divorce followed by an annulment. Has anyone paid attention to this info?
This topic really makes me feel disturbed. My heart goes out to the husband. He still loves her. Boy, she sure picked the right guy. Im out of this. Poof!
 
As catholic spouse, each one of us must not to be naive about the conjugal sexuality and all what is linked. Before the wedding, a reasonable evaluation of the sex drive, of the libido, of the sexual health of each one and a reasonable evaluation of the conjugal sexual issues are totally possible, moral, fair and helpful. In all honestly, even with virgins and chaste fiancés, it is possible and credible to note some deep difficulties that will have wrong effects on the normal sexual life of the couple. The simple fact of not wanting to talk about sex , or a non-possibility of discussing on this topic, before the wedding, are already red flags. Each fiancé has to respond to sexual questions coming from the other. The conjugal sexual life is one of hard cores of the catholic marriage.
Does she agree with the fact of being touched sensually speaking by him? Does she agree with the stimulations on her top parts (her secondary erogenous parts)? Does she agree with the fact of suffering a minimum, a little, for the first time for conjugal sex? The normal possible disconforts for the first time!!! Yes, each one has to make some sexual efforts, and some sexual sacrifices.

Do you know that some women are impotent, physically speaking, thus the marriage is not for them? Do you know that some women are impotent, mentally and psychologically speaking, with a somatization, thus the marriage is not for them? The reasoning same for men.
 
There’s getting to be **a lot **of uncharitable conjecture on this thread.

OP, sex shouldn’t hurt that much. To me that points to a physical problem. I had a physical problem that prevented sex (not vaginismus, but equally painful) and it required a doctor’s solution. I was so ignorant and ashamed about my body (Sex ed? Why? What does a Catholic girl need to know but abstinence!) that I didn’t even know what was going on. Luckily I found an excellent, caring, gentle doctor. I think it’s no small coincidence that this doctor was an older woman who had a motherly way about her.

OP, your wife needs to have this issue addressed, not only for the sake of your sex life but for her own health so she can start having PAP smears and pelvic exams. Those become more and more important as women get older. Urge her to try another doctor for both the health benefits and the relationship benefits.

And to address your original question, sex with someone you’re not married to is a sin. I know you’re hurting but you’re right to stay the course here. You’re doing the right thing so far.
 
Is there a particular reason your wife is “not prepared” to see another doctor? Doctors are becoming much more experienced at treating pelvic floor dysfunctions and other disorders, so if she went even a few years ago and did not get the help she needed, she should be able to look around and find a practice that has experience treating those sorts of issues.

It is concerning that you have been married for so long and she saw one doctor and gave up. Does she understand how deeply this affects you? Not only not to be able to be intimate, but also not being able to have children? That is really tough, and I’m so sorry for your situation.

As someone else pointed out, it is important for her to at least be able to have a pelvic exam as she gets older. Maybe you could approach it that way, and ask her to see another doctor more experienced with these issues. A doctor’s gentle approach is huge in the amount of comfort during those exams. They can even use things like a pediatric speculum, numbing creams, etc, to at least be able to assess the problem. I hope that you can convince her to see someone else, for the sake of your marriage and for the sake of her health.
 
IMHO, there’s a lack of compassion in your post for both OP and his Wife.
We simply do not have enough first hand knowledge to make many of the statements that you’ve made below.
rcmartinez said:
I hate to say this, but I will.

I think the wife is truly frigid and hides it behind a veil of so called pain.
I truly believe she knew it before the marriage.
Good men get screwed all the time by devious women. (and visa versa).
The priest perceived something very wrong to suggest a divorce followed by an annulment. Has anyone paid attention to this info?
This topic really makes me feel disturbed. My heart goes out to the husband. He still loves her. Boy, she sure picked the right guy. Im out of this. Poof!
Click to expand...
 
rcmartinez said:
I hate to say this, but I will.
I think the wife is truly frigid and hides it behind a veil of so called pain.
I truly believe she knew it before the marriage.
Good men get screwed all the time by devious women. (and visa versa).
The priest perceived something very wrong to suggest a divorce followed by an annulment. Has anyone paid attention to this info?
This topic really makes me feel disturbed. My heart goes out to the husband. He still loves her. Boy, she sure picked the right guy. Im out of this. Poof!
Click to expand...
Lookingforjoy said:
There’s getting to be **a lot **

of uncharitable conjecture on this thread.

OP, sex shouldn’t hurt that much. <…> I think it’s no small coincidence that this doctor was an older woman who had a motherly way about her.

OP, your wife needs to have this issue addressed, <…> Urge her to try another doctor for both the health benefits and the relationship benefits.

And to address your original question, sex with someone you’re not married to is a sin. I know you’re hurting but you’re right to stay the course here. You’re doing the right thing so far.
Lorelei12;12670388:
Is there a particular reason your wife is “not prepared” to see another doctor? Doctors are becoming much more experienced at treating pelvic floor dysfunctions and other disorders, so if she went even a few years ago and did not get the help she needed, she should be able to look around and find a practice that has experience treating those sorts of issues.

It is concerning that you have been married for so long and she saw one doctor and gave up. Does she understand how deeply this affects you? Not only not to be able to be intimate, but also not being able to have children? That is really tough, and I’m so sorry for your situation. <…>
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👍👍
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Ocidge said:
True, she has never been diagnosed with vaginismus and I am not a doctor. But, trying to seek information online this was my conclusion. To answer your questions:
-** she has never had a pelvic exam**
  • she has never been able to use tampons
  • it’s been too painful for her to get anywhere near penetration
  • we did speak about sex before we got married and she did hint that there may be some difficulty but I didn’t realise that it could be so long term
  • yes, she is a virgin too
  • she tells me there was no abuse in the past
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Eight years. One doctor. No pelvic exam. An apparent unwillingness to try harder to please her husband. This speaks to me of psychological and spiritual issues that are far deeper than the physical issue. The OP is to be commended for wanting to stay with his wife, but there is no question he is being disrespected by her and has been all along. He should have put his foot down long ago: his wife needs to get a thorough examination from a qualified gynecologist. If she has psychological issues as well, get counseling. Doing nothing means getting more of what he’s been getting. Not a good place to be.

Let this be an example for those who believe in waiting for marriage to have sex: there needs to be more disclosure than was given to the OP. A “hint” is not enough. Got to run those hints down. If a prospective spouse isn’t willing to open up, that’s an indication that maybe one should have second thoughts about marriage to that person.
 
Does she agree with the fact of being worked on her own body by her husband for preparing of the union of bodies? Can he touch, lick, suck, kiss and massage her body (the secondary erogenous parts and the primary erogenous parts of her wife)? Does she agree with the fact of being prepared sexually, sensually and erotically by her husband?
 
Is she ready to assume the normal pains linked to the loss of her virginity, intellectually speaking, morally speaking, emotionally speaking, and mentally speaking?

Is he ready to assume his role of conjugal lover, intellectually speaking, morally speaking, emotionally speaking, and mentally speaking, via the practice of foreplay and of sexual foreplay on her body, in love and in the tenderness?

Is* he* ready for a long session of the conjugal act? Is she ready for a long session of the conjugal act? Take time, a long session is helpful.
 
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