Wife with Vaginismus / Unconsummated Marriage

[Cat]

I’ve been following this thread and I’ve read all the posts.

Marriage was designed by God to be a picture of the joyous and wondrous relationship between God and His Church. The ecstasies of the sexual relationship between a husband and a wife are supposed to be a portrayal of the ecstasy we will have when we are with Christ in heaven, and the ecstasy He has in loving us, His Church, His beautiful bride.

Marriage is not supposed to be sexless, because that is a distortion of the picture of Christ and His Church. Yes, there are times in marriage that a couple will abstain, but the Bible makes it clear that the couple is to come together again. That’s God’s plan, not some fleshly, sinful craving of humans.

All too often on these boards, I see Catholics who somehow have gotten the idea that the ideal marriage is sexless, and that any form of desire for a spouse is lustful and therefore sinful. This is a trick of Satan, and boy, does he do a good job of fooling Catholics! Please, my Catholic brothers and sisters, recognize Satan’s lying trick, and don’t fall for it in your marriages!

The OP’s marriage is not a beautiful picture of the relationship between Christ and His Church.

It sounds to me like there are some very serious problems in the marriage, and I don’t think any of us can even begin to help the OP because we are not privy to all the information. It sounds to me like the wife has some form of mental illness; it could be depression and anxieties, it could be some form of psychosis and delusions…but whatever it is, she desperately needs help from doctors and from counselors, which should include religious people to help with the spiritual issues.

While I commend the OP for sticking it out, I also chastise the OP for not taking action and doing whatever is necessary to bring the marriage into line with God’s perfect and beautiful plan for marriage. Help your wife, don’t just sit back and allow her to suffer from an untreated illness of the mind or heart!

OP, this isn’t about sex. It’s about God’s plan for your marriage, and at this moment, you are not living that plan, and neither is your wife. Satan has you and her in his claws, and he is gleeful that you are both suffering from a sexless marriage, because this shows the world a twisted version of the love between God and His Church. Satan is using you both as his tools. You MUST escape from him, and make your way back to the loving arms of God!

Please consult with a priest and ask for referral to a doctor and counselors who can help your wife and YOU!

Godspeed to you both.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Encourage him to stay faithful to what? There is no sexual relationship between them, and it seems that there is no hope for one. In the last 3000 days they have been married she went to the doctor on one of those days. I highly doubt she has any intent of getting help. She has no right to hold him hostage based on something she is unwilling to put even the slightest effort into.

We can only use the evidence we have and the evidence says she won’t go get help and he didn’t know that he would never have sex. if that’s what the evidence says then that is the conclusion we must make. It isn’t right to assume he is lying or deceiving us. If he is lying then this whole thread is meaningless except as a moral exercise.

The only advice you guys have is that he should be nice. That is what it amounts to.

I’ll take be nice over abandon her any day. You are sounding like you are a tad biased in this situation. Oh well, the OP does not have to even take what we say seriously. But I’ll just say that your career as a marriage counselor would never take off. But perhaps a divorce lawyer is your vocation.

 

[Irishmom2]

I’ve been following this thread and I’ve read all the posts.

Marriage was designed by God to be a picture of the joyous and wondrous relationship between God and His Church. The ecstasies of the sexual relationship between a husband and a wife are supposed to be a portrayal of the ecstasy we will have when we are with Christ in heaven, and the ecstasy He has in loving us, His Church, His beautiful bride.

Marriage is not supposed to be sexless, because that is a distortion of the picture of Christ and His Church. Yes, there are times in marriage that a couple will abstain, but the Bible makes it clear that the couple is to come together again. That’s God’s plan, not some fleshly, sinful craving of humans.

All too often on these boards, I see Catholics who somehow have gotten the idea that the ideal marriage is sexless, and that any form of desire for a spouse is lustful and therefore sinful. This is a trick of Satan, and boy, does he do a good job of fooling Catholics! Please, my Catholic brothers and sisters, recognize Satan’s lying trick, and don’t fall for it in your marriages!

The OP’s marriage is not a beautiful picture of the relationship between Christ and His Church.

It sounds to me like there are some very serious problems in the marriage, and I don’t think any of us can even begin to help the OP because we are not privy to all the information. It sounds to me like the wife has some form of mental illness; it could be depression and anxieties, it could be some form of psychosis and delusions…but whatever it is, she desperately needs help from doctors and from counselors, which should include religious people to help with the spiritual issues.

While I commend the OP for sticking it out, I also chastise the OP for not taking action and doing whatever is necessary to bring the marriage into line with God’s perfect and beautiful plan for marriage. Help your wife, don’t just sit back and allow her to suffer from an untreated illness of the mind or heart!

OP, this isn’t about sex. It’s about God’s plan for your marriage, and at this moment, you are not living that plan, and neither is your wife. Satan has you and her in his claws, and he is gleeful that you are both suffering from a sexless marriage, because this shows the world a twisted version of the love between God and His Church. Satan is using you both as his tools. You MUST escape from him, and make your way back to the loving arms of God!

Please consult with a priest and ask for referral to a doctor and counselors who can help your wife and YOU!

Godspeed to you both.

Excellent post, Cat.

 

[jimmy]

I’ll take be nice over abandon her any day. You are sounding like you are a tad biased in this situation. Oh well, the OP does not have to even take what we say seriously. But I’ll just say that your career as a marriage counselor would never take off. But perhaps a divorce lawyer is your vocation.

Hahaha, maybe.

 

[pianistclare]

Or…it could be a troll.
“Let’s get the Catholics all worked up”.
Just sayin…it’s a possibility.

 

[LightBound]

Or…it could be a troll.
“Let’s get the Catholics all worked up”.
Just sayin…it’s a possibility.

It wouldn’t be the first time, especially in this sub-forum, but usually it’s someone with a brand-spanking-new account. But it has had the same affect a trolling thread usually does- getting people all worked up- some of the women are identifying with painful sex and humiliating pelvic exams (and possibly prior sexual abuse or assault) and several of the men are all in an uproar over the lack of sexual gratification. It certainly fits the usual “get all the Catholics worked up” modus operandi, does it not?

 

[Ocidge]

Hi,

OP here. First, I’m not a troll! Second, I have read all your comments and appreciate all your thoughts and suggestions. My original post was asking a question about whether I could technically have sex one time in my life with someone other than my wife and that was answered quite early on, thanks. Most of the comments since then have been about my wife’s health and whether I really care for her and vice-versa, which wasn’t what I was asking. I didn’t think it fair to talk about my wife here too much. But, looking back, I realise the title of this thread was misleading. I should have given it a more relevant subject.

But, without going into too much detail, the doctor that my wife saw suggested that her husband use his fingers with lots of lubricant. So, it became something that I needed to fix rather than my wife. We tried it a number of years ago and even though it was difficult at the start after many months we finally had some success. At first, my little finger was able to get inside (not wanting to be too crude) and after some time a bigger finger until eventually more than one. Things seemed promising until we started trying the real thing. But that got nowhere near getting inside and never has. I think it’s probably a psychological thing and that is where I came up with the “diagnosis” myself and I admit I may be wrong.

I am not going to force my wife to do something she does not want to do and so will not tell her she has to see a doctor. Also, I might be wrong in this too, but I think a number of people on these forums are located in the US where it might be relatively common for people to seek professional counselling. In other countries this isn’t so common and can be very very expensive. So, again, this is not something I am going to force my wife to do.

As I mentioned before, I feel this is a sickness and so I would not in good conscience leave my wife for that reason, never mind the fact that I love her and that we’re very good friends.

However, I do worry that some time in the future, if the opportunity arose and in a moment of weakness, I might end up having sex with another woman. Then, when I die, I can imagine my friends and old school colleagues, who over 20 years ago, boasted of their sexual encounters, which in some cases I know were true because of the resultant children, waving down at me and laughing, on their way into heaven after receiving forgiveness and helped by the many prayers from their loving children! It’s a funny life!

~O.

 

[z_0101]

Hi,
(…)
But, without going into too much detail, the doctor that my wife saw suggested that her husband use his fingers with lots of lubricant. So, it became something that I needed to fix rather than my wife.
(…)
Also, I might be wrong in this too, but I think a number of people on these forums are located in the US where it might be relatively common for people to seek professional counselling. In other countries this isn’t so common and can be very very expensive. So, again, this is not something I am going to force my wife to do.

~O.

I’m glad you did seek some help, the Dr. was very wrong to leave you two without any further guidance and recourse to help. It is neither your wife’s fault nor yours, that this guidance was inadequate - sounds like a GP that didn’t even take a look at your wife! I stick by my advice to seek further medical and psychological help.

Yes, I am in the US… it is relatively uncommon for the average USA citizen to seek counseling. Most health insurance in the US (well, maybe with the laws this has changed; however, I haven’t heard of any changes) coverage for mental health issues is very minimal if at all available ( I read one policy where the entire treatment for depression/PTSD was to occur in no more than three, 30 minute sessions per year each session to be scheduled no more frequently than each quarter - lifetime capped at 12 total sessions!). Thus, seeking counseling is quite often an extremely expensive course of action. In fact, the USA has one of the worst humanitarian records of all industrialized nations in how we treat those with psychological ailments. Therefore, when many of us in the USA suggest psychological counseling… we’re aware of the expense.
( Yes, the gossip rag-mags filled by the paparazzi make it sound as if most of the USA is in some sort of re-hab or counseling program; however, that isn’t the truth. )

uggh… it’s late and I’ve had a long day… the kids are just wound tight… cabin fever I think, it’s been in the negatives for the past several weeks and when they are that little they don’t get to go outside and run and scream and be kids… they all finally went to bed and now it’s my turn…

Praying for you Ocidge, please, don’t give up, please really research some different woman’s doctors in your area, so much has changed in Woman’s medicine in the last four or five years that something more can be done… and don’t just take the first diagnoses, push for better exams from the doctor… all too often the easiest route is the one taken when there could be something more complicated at work here!
BTW: Make the appointment to go talk with these doctors yourself, tell them that Wife doesn’t want to come and you’re needing some help with this too!

However, I do worry that some time in the future, if the opportunity arose and in a moment of weakness, I might end up having sex with another woman. Then, when I die, I can imagine my friends and old school colleagues, who over 20 years ago, boasted of their sexual encounters, which in some cases I know were true because of the resultant children, waving down at me and laughing, on their way into heaven after receiving forgiveness and helped by the many prayers from their loving children! It’s a funny life!

Just being nosy here… so absolutely don’t answer if you don’t want to; however, have you talked to your wife about this above statement, in those very words.
If not then you need to… she needs to understand how deeply she is wounding not only you but herself too by not seeking proper medical assistance - you worry about adultery, she should be worried about placing you in the position. A spouses role for each other is to get the other into heaven!

 

[fpt]

My comments

Hi,

OP here. First, I’m not a troll! Second, I have read all your comments and appreciate all your thoughts and suggestions. My original post was asking a question about whether I could technically have sex one time in my life with someone other than my wife and that was answered quite early on, thanks. Most of the comments since then have been about my wife’s health and whether I really care for her and vice-versa, which wasn’t what I was asking. I didn’t think it fair to talk about my wife here too much. But, looking back, I realise the title of this thread was misleading. I should have given it a more relevant subject.

But, without going into too much detail, the doctor that my wife saw suggested that her husband use his fingers with lots of lubricant. So, it became something that I needed to fix rather than my wife. We tried it a number of years ago and even though it was difficult at the start after many months we finally had some success. At first, my little finger was able to get inside (not wanting to be too crude) and after some time a bigger finger until eventually more than one. Things seemed promising until we started trying the real thing. But that got nowhere near getting inside and never has. I think it’s probably a psychological thing and that is where I came up with the “diagnosis” myself and I admit I may be wrong.

I am not going to force my wife to do something she does not want to do and so will not tell her she has to see a doctor.

Sorry, but like her husband, you have the moral right coming from the contract of marriage to ask her to visit a catholic psychiatrist, a catholic general physician, a catholic gynecologist, a catholic midwife and a catholic sexologist for solving the different issues. You seem to forget* that one of hard cores of marriage is the conjugal act. *Your wife has sexual moral obligations toward you concerning the marital act, **you maintain in the conjugal chastity via the practice of the marital act, she is your keeper angel for struggling against the wrong effects of the sexual concupiscence. **Thus, she should visit by herself some catholic specialists, for showing, and for proving her good faith toward you. Do not be naive!!!

Also, I might be wrong in this too, but I think a number of people on these forums are located in the US where it might be relatively common for people to seek professional counselling. In other countries this isn’t so common and can be very very expensive. (See with The local catholic community, see doctors of your catholic parish.) So, again, this is not something I am going to force my wife to do. * If your conjugal sexual life does not merit some financial efforts, in the reasonable way, I do not understand!!!* ** You can require, in the catholic way, a visit, morally speaking. You can ask like with a marital request of the conjugal act.**

As I mentioned before, I feel this is a sickness and so I would not in good conscience leave my wife for that reason (do you prefer having no conjugal sex, be frustrated while the options are possible? Are you full of scupules? The vality of marriage is doubtful???), never mind the fact that I love her and that we’re very good friends.

However, I do worry that some time in the future, if the opportunity arose and in a moment of weakness, I might end up having sex with another woman. (You project a possible sin of adultery, and you say I love my wife: it is strange).

Then, when I die, I can imagine my friends and old school colleagues, who over 20 years ago, boasted of their sexual encounters, which in some cases I know were true because of the resultant children, waving down at me and laughing, on their way into heaven after receiving forgiveness and helped by the many prayers from their loving children! It’s a funny life!

~O.

 

[fpt]

My comments

Hi,

OP here. First, I’m not a troll! Second, I have read all your comments and appreciate all your thoughts and suggestions. My original post was asking a question about whether I could technically have sex one time in my life with someone other than my wife and that was answered quite early on, thanks. Most of the comments since then have been about my wife’s health and whether I really care for her and vice-versa, which wasn’t what I was asking. I didn’t think it fair to talk about my wife here too much. But, looking back, I realise the title of this thread was misleading. I should have given it a more relevant subject.

But, without going into too much detail, the doctor that my wife saw suggested that her husband use his fingers with lots of lubricant. So, it became something that I needed to fix rather than my wife.

---

Did you discover the foreplay and the sexual foreplay on her body, at this time? Each husband must know that the wife has to be touched, sensually, erotically and sexually on her erogenous parts, the primary parts and the secondary parts.*** ** Some oral stimulations, some digital stimulations and some manual stimulations on her exterior sexual parts during long time in the context of the session of the conjugal act are so essential**.

We tried it a number of years ago and even though it was difficult at the start after many months we finally had some success. At first, my little finger was able to get inside (not wanting to be too crude) and after some time a bigger finger until eventually more than one. Things seemed promising until we started trying the real thing. But that got nowhere near getting inside and never has. As catholic wife, she has the moral obligation to try to support the normal pains linked to the donation of her virginity.

I think it’s probably a psychological thing and that is where I came up with the “diagnosis” myself and I admit I may be wrong.

I am not going to force my wife to do something she does not want to do and so will not tell her she has to see a doctor. Also, I might be wrong in this too, but I think a number of people on these forums are located in the US where it might be relatively common for people to seek professional counselling. In other countries this isn’t so common and can be very very expensive. So, again, this is not something I am going to force my wife to do.

As I mentioned before, I feel this is a sickness and so I would not in good conscience leave my wife for that reason, never mind the fact that I love her and that we’re very good friends.

However, I do worry that some time in the future, if the opportunity arose and in a moment of weakness, I might end up having sex with another woman. Then, when I die, I can imagine my friends and old school colleagues, who over 20 years ago, boasted of their sexual encounters, which in some cases I know were true because of the resultant children, waving down at me and laughing, on their way into heaven after receiving forgiveness and helped by the many prayers from their loving children! It’s a funny life!

~O.