Wifely submission, fair comparison?

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

**I am most interested in hearing the opinions of self described happily married folks (men and women) who are also faithful Catholics.

Is it fair or accurate to compare a wife’s marital submission to:

1. a boss-employee relationship
2. a parent-child relationship

Men, do you view it this way? Women? Why or why not?**

 

[deb1]

The bible has to be taken as a whole. The marital relationship as outlined in the bible is very balanced.

Yes, it says that women should submit to their husband but in 1 Peter 3:7 it basically says that if a man doesn’t honor his wife, his prayers will be hindered from being heard in heaven. That is a pretty powerful message.

I think that if both the husband and wife do as the bible tells them then there will be a lot of mutual submission toward one another. The man is the head of the household but he has to love his wife in the deep way that Christ loved the Church, honor her and be willing to give his life for her.

That doesn’t sound like either a boss/worker or parent/child relationship.

 

[pumpkinbeast]

Parent-child, I don’t think so! Boss-employee, that’s closer… Boss has the final say, but will still engage in a discussion with the employee to determine the best strategy… the Wife-Husband relationship is, I think, very different from any other, it’s hard to put my finger on it, because it involves the kind of self-sacrificial love that Christ has for His Church. Would a boss be willing to be crucified for his employee? A husband has to be willing to do that for his wife.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Malia, I’ll give you examples from my marriage…11 years.

**I am most interested in hearing the opinions of self described happily married folks (men and women) who are also faithful Catholics.

Is it fair or accurate to compare a wife’s marital submission to:

1. a boss-employee relationship. No, I am not his employee. We are partners, with different jobs. Right now, I am a stay at home mom, he is the wage earner. Before we had children, I worked full time. But no, he’s not my boss.**
2. a parent-child relationship No…I had a really great Dad, while my husband is similar in some ways, he’s not my Dad. I don’t see myself as being less mature, or in needing guidance from my DH the way I did from my father. I do count on him to protect me though,if that makes sense, from physical harm (an intruder God forbid, or even doing the more dangerous things, and even emotionally…but not in a fatherly way, as a husband.
   Men, do you view it this way? Women? Why or why not?

I heard a Priest describe once, that while the husband is the spiritual head, the wife is the spiritual heart. Both are equally important, and the body cannot survive without both…

Hope that helps.

 

[capsaicin]

Neither of those is appropriate, but especially not parent-child.

I did not get married to be bossed around, and both of those paradigms include a power structure where one commands and the other obeys, and there are consequences if the underling does not obey.

I am a grown woman with a fully functional mind. I don’t need someone in command of me. Nor would I accept that.

My husband is the head of our family, I honor him as such, but we are equals in every way in our relations. I can’t really put the dynamic into words… maybe if I think about it I can put it into a later post…

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

My husband is the head of our family, I honor him as such, but we are equals in every way in our relations. I can’t really put the dynamic into words… maybe if I think about it I can put it into a later post…

I really hope you can! How do you honor him as head of the household? Does “head of the household” encompass all aspects of your life together? How do you remain equal while one is a leader? Seems like they would be opposed…

 

[deb1]

I really hope you can! How do you honor him as head of the household? Does “head of the household” encompass all aspects of your life together? How do you remain equal while one is a leader? Seems like they would be opposed…

I think that both individuals have to respect one another. A woman for example would try not to nag, criticize her husband in front of his friends, or be overly negative toward him.

We are both of equal worth before God. I am as good as my husband, so we are equal.

 

[lotusblossom]

Speaking as one who is definitely not terribly experienced in years, but has been really working hard on all this with her spouse…

I would say neither as well. We have different functions, but we still are equal. However, I have learned that the best way for my DH to be the husband God has created him to be is to let him be the head in many areas. Like in the respect thread, I’ve learned to not question every decision he makes and I’ve learned to esp. not question his discipline with our DS. However, it is not a forced submission as it would be in a boss/employee or parent/child relationship. There is no talking-down and it’s an equal level of communication.

 

[Teakafrog]

1. No, and
2. DEFINITELY NO!!!

As others have said, it’s a difficult dynamic to explain, but the best I can do is this recent example. We have been discerning a move, and have done a LOT of discussion about pros and cons, finances, etc. In the end, we found a house. It met a lot of our criteria–size, cost, approximate location, etc., but it needed a lot of work. I had reservations, hubby wanted to jump right in. With a lot of prayer, I decided to defer to his judgment, and not argue with him about it. Most of it was what we wanted, and his opinion was the deciding factor.

Now in the old days (read: before I converted), we would not have bought the house, because I didn’t want to. End of story. Needless to say, we used to have a LOT of problems and arguments. After Retrouvaille, we learned to communicate, and after years of prayer for guidance from the Holy Spirit, I have learned to respect my husband’s judgment as leader of the family–precisely because God has given him that authority by making me his wife.

So, no there is no boss or father figure in it. What there is, is respect for his place as leader, defined by God. Does that mean I always let him have his way? No. If my position makes more sense, he will react reasonably, and usually change his mind. In cases like the house, where there is no one ‘right’ answer…I try to discern by prayer if there is any REAL reason to continue to not abide by his decision. Usually, there isn’t, so I let him make the final decision, after letting him know what my thoughts are.

Yes, we bought the house, and are working on it now, hoping to move in a couple weeks.

 

[Pinkyyy]

My husband acts like both of those scenarios

 

[1ke]

Neither of these accurately express the relationship of husband and wife.

The two are one flesh. Male and female he created them, in his image he created them.

The relationship of husband and wife is that of the persons of the Trinity to each other, and of Christ to his Church.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

The relationship of husband and wife is that of the persons of the Trinity to each other, and of Christ to his Church.

**This is obviously the RIGHT answer, but since the Trinity is such a mystery and above our human comprehension, it is hard to know how that would apply to everyday married life.

Us mere mortals need examples and comparisons to something we can relate to in order to compute, know what I mean?

**

 

[jmcrae]

**I am most interested in hearing the opinions of self described happily married folks (men and women) who are also faithful Catholics.

Is it fair or accurate to compare a wife’s marital submission to:

1. a boss-employee relationship
2. a parent-child relationship

Men, do you view it this way? Women? Why or why not?**

Actually, I think it’s more of a partnership, where I have my stuff to do that I’m in charge of, and he has his stuff to do that he’s in charge of, and then we make the big decisions together, with an understanding of respect for each other.

He’s the one who has to pay the bills, so we work according to what he says we can afford, but within that, he trusts my judgement on, like, what to buy for groceries, how to handle the entertainment/communications bundle, and stuff like that.

If I see something I think we need, I buy it without stopping to ask for permission, while at the same time making sure in my own mind that it’s not a frivolous thing that’s just going to turn out to be a waste of money.

 

[jmcrae]

**This is obviously the RIGHT answer, but since the Trinity is such a mystery and above our human comprehension, it is hard to know how that would apply to everyday married life.

Us mere mortals need examples and comparisons to something we can relate to in order to compute, know what I mean?

**

I think just have a clear sense of what your goals are, and work together to achieve them, like two oxen pulling a plough, or two birds building a nest.

 

[CatholicSam]

I like 1ke’s explanation

But before I read that I was going to reply that it’s more of a priest-parishioner relationship. Not exactly, but it’s a lot closer than the boss-employee or parent-child. Each spouse has their time to be in the role of priest, as far as bringing spiritual light into the family (not advocating married or femal priests here ). What I was going for is that we each have our roles to play, neither is more important, and each is helping the other to get to Heaven. In the end, there is no other relationship like the husband-wife relationship that we can directly compare it to.

As for wifely submission, the way DH and I view it is that we put the other one first. It’s not a matter of me always being submissive to him, or of him being submissive to me all the time. It’s about giving 100%, 100% of the time. If I know something means a lot to him, I want to support him in that (so long as it’s not sinful, of course), and the same goes when something’s very important to me but perhaps DH doesn’t really have the same kind of enthusiasm about it. We just want each other to be happy. On all the big things and most of the little things, we’re blessed to truly be on the same page.

Hope that made sense and didn’t sound too rambly

 

[whatevergirl]

Neither in my home–we are partners, and I surrender my will for the good of the marriage, and he does the same. When it comes to a variety of matters, he has the final say, but it’s not a parent-child or boss-employee relationship.

If it should be boss-employee, I want to get at least minimum wage for my submission. And with a nice vacation package, and bonuses, too! hee hee

Seriously, though–it’s about mutual sacrifice. As a wife, I sacrifice in ways that are different than my husband, and he, the same. But, together–we are submitting for the one-ness of our marriage. Every thought, action, deed…before carried out…should be considered …is this for the good of my spouse…of my marriage?

 

[kage_ar]

Can I also say neither

Thinking about the relationship to Christ and His Church brings it into something I can get my mind around.

I’m a convert.

There were some doctirnes of the Church that were difficult for me. When it came right down to it, after years of study and prayer, I KNEW in both my heart and my mind that the Church was what Christ had established on earth, and that to fully follow Christ, I had to take the plunge.

This is much like deciding to marry someone.

The doctrines that I had trouble with, I had to submit to the Church. I had to trust that Christ loved me and would not guide me into error, so, when it came to these matters, I had to trust His love and wisdom. I had to TRUST in Christ, that meant trusting in - submitting - myself to the Church for those things which I had some emotional disagreement with. Really stepping out on FAITH.

I had to know that the Church would not lead me astray.

That is the kind of submission that Paul speaks of. It is real trust, faith and hope. That is what works for ME.

The submission thing is not talking about little things
“I want to use Tide with Bleach”
“No, I want to use Cheer and I am the man of the house so submit to me and use Cheer now woman”.

It is in the important things, the things that matter.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

I had to TRUST in Christ, that meant trusting in - submitting - myself to the Church for those things which I had some emotional disagreement with. Really stepping out on FAITH.

I had to know that the Church would not lead me astray.

**
And I guess that is where we, as fallen human beings stumble… as a convert it was easy to put my trust in Christ once I decided that He is real and that His Church is true. We can never be that sure about another human. We are fallible, Christ is not. Christ has not made mistakes, been selfish, or caused us hurt or lead us down the wrong path…

huh, seems like a bigger leap of faith to trust a spouse than to trust Christ… should be a lot more converts:shrug:
**

 

[monicatholic]

malia,
scripture says that wives should submit to their husbands and that husbands are the head of the family like Christ is the head of the Church. Christ as head gave up his life for the church.

the husband’s job is to give up his life for his family. the wives job is to submit to her husband, her equal.

on the best days, with all this loving self-giving going on, there’s no dispute or disruption because each partner has died to self. the result is a rebirth in a life that’s beyond description.

on good days we fail and pray and repent and try agAIN.

bad days happen because either or both of us has determined to be self-promoting and self-centered.

 

[kage_ar]

And I guess that is where we, as fallen human beings stumble… as a convert it was easy to put my trust in Christ once I decided that He is real and that His Church is true. We can never be that sure about another human. We are fallible, Christ is not. Christ has not made mistakes, been selfish, or caused us hurt or lead us down the wrong path…

huh, seems like a bigger leap of faith to trust a spouse than to trust Christ… should be a lot more converts:shrug:

You beat me to it!!!

I had to change computers, my hip is SCREAMING and the chair at the dining room table was not helping - in the minutes it took me to move myself, you picked up on what I was going to add

We know that Christ is infallible, and people will disappoint us.

For me, I have to trust that my husband loves me, loves Jude and his sole desire is to see both of us in heaven someday.

Here is one personal example…

I wanted to homeschool Jude at one point, Brad was not comfortable with it, so - I submitted to him on that. Jude is fine and healthy and intelligent and talented and strong in his faith. Brad knew I would have been biting off more than I could have handled.

It boils down to real trust - and dear friend, it did NOT happen overnight!

Love, pray and trust each other.