Wikipedia and Mormonwiki edited to remove certain quotes about Mormonism

[Answersplease]

Answersplease:

I used to quote this quote from Wikipedia, but now it is gone. The article no longer mentions it:

From Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith

When a leading apostle, David W. Patten, raised insulting questions, Smith slapped him in the face and kicked him into the yard.[55] After a warrant was issued for Smith’s arrest on the charge of bank fraud, Smith and Rigdon fled Kirtland for Missouri on the night of January 12, 1838.[56]

I also used to quote this page from Mormonwiki, but now all the text has been removed.

mormonwiki.org/lying_for_the_lord

Nice cover-up.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

If their founder was a religious con-man, why do you think they’ll have any concern for the truth themselves?

 

[Answersplease]

mormonwiki.org/lying_for_the_lord

Samples from the Mormonwiki page before all the text was removed as a cover-up:

“What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers. I labored with these apostates myself until I was out of all manner of patience.” - Joseph Smith [1]

“Address of the Prophet—His Testimony Against the Dissenters at Nauvoo”, delivered Sunday, May 26, 1844. Printed in History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 408-412. Available at UTLM.org. The quote is significant when one considers that Smith secretly had thirty wives at the time of the address (cf. A partial listing with dates at FamilySearch.org).

Sidney Rigdon in the 18 June 1845 ‘Messenger and Advocate’ reported that Parley P. Pratt, in speaking of the means by which church leaders should sustain Smith, advised that ‘we must lie to protect brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.’ Not only were church leaders willing to violate the law to promote polygamy, they did not hesitate to blacken the character of individuals who threatened to expose the secret practice of plural marriage.
…

-Richard van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy: A History, pp. 38-39

 

[blazerdave]

LOL

 

[Answersplease]

Answersplease:

I also used to quote this article from Wikipedia, now the entire article is gone,

I guess every page or article I quoted that could be erased has already been erased or edited:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critici…s#cite_ref-143

(Color added to highlight the original text.)

Jerald and Sandra Tanner point to comments by certain church leaders as evidence that women are subject to different rules regarding entry into heaven.
…19th-century leader Erastus Snow

preached: “No woman will get into the celestial kingdom, except her husband receives her, if she is worthy to have a husband; and if not, somebody will receive her as a servant”.[144]

[144] ^ “UTLM web site describing LDS treatment of women”. utlm.org/onlineresources/resurrectwife.htm. Retrieved 2007-12-04.

Thankfully the UTLM.org webpage could not be erased in the cover-up:

utlm.org/onlineresources/resurrectwife.htm

 

[Holly3278]

Do you have a cache of the page or something before the alleged “cover up” to prove that a cover up actually occurred?

 

[Answersplease]

Do you have a cache of the page or something before the alleged “cover up” to prove that a cover up actually occurred?

Answersplease:

I just quote my old posts in order to repost the samples from the pages before they were erased or edited.

I didn’t expect that the pages could be erased or edited so easily, so I did not make a cache of the pages.

Anyway I don’t have a website to store the cache, and even if I had a website I would need permission to store their web pages.

The Mormonwiki is NOT an anti-Mormon website, it is made by Mormons, so I doubt they would give me permission to store their pages anyway.

And I can guess that there are pro-Mormon forces within the Wikipedia community, otherwise the pages could not have been erased or edited

If you want some “caches” here is what I have found by doing some searching on the internet:

The following is a link to a page from Wikinfo.org

:

wikinfo.org/index.php/Criticism_of_Joseph_Smith,_Jr.#CITEREFBushman2005

The last two sentences in the article on that page shows the same quote I used to quote from Wikipedia:

When a leading apostle, David W. Patten, raised insulting questions, Joseph slapped him in the face and kicked him into the yard. After a warrant was issued for Smith’s arrest on the charge of bank fraud, Smith and Rigdon fled Kirtland for Missouri on the night of January 12, 1838.

Look at what it says in the box directly under the “References” subtitle on that page from Wikinfo.org :

It says “This page uses content from Wikipedia. The original article was at Joseph_Smith,_Jr…”

Now, the current Wikipedia page no longer has those two sentences and more has been removed.

---

The following link is to a page from “Yahoo! Answers” :

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090224203453AArGuHk

Look at the first post on that “Yahoo! Answers” page, it shows that it was posted 1 year ago at the bottom of the quote.

The last two sentences of the second paragraph in that post by a poster named “Non Delusional National”, it shows the same quote that I used to quote from Wikipedia:

When a leading apostle, David W. Patten, raised insulting questions, Joseph slapped him in the face and kicked him into the yard. After a warrant was issued for Smith’s arrest on the charge of bank fraud, Smith and Rigdon fled Kirtland for Missouri on the night of January 12, 1838.

Note that the poster named “Non Delusional National” gives the Wikipedia page as his source since he puts a link to it, and that his post was posted “1 year ago”.

Now, the current Wikipedia page no longer has those two sentences and more has been removed.

---

The following is a link I found to a different wiki page that shows how I mostly remember the Wikipedia page used to look but with a few small differences in some parts of the header and introduction:

samchase.tv/wiki/Joseph_Smith,_Jr.

The last two sentences in the section subtitled “Zion in Missouri” show the same quote that I used to quote from wikipedia:

When a leading apostle, David W. Patten, raised insulting questions, Joseph slapped him in the face and kicked him into the yard. After a warrant was issued for Smith’s arrest on the charge of bank fraud, Smith and Rigdon fled Kirtland for Missouri on the night of January 12, 1838.

**
Please click on the links as soon as possible, because I don’t know how long these pages will be up and in the same condition as they are now.

I can only hope that any pro-Mormon forces within the organizations of those pages can’t erase them or edit them.
**

 

[why_me]

Mormonwiki is not sponsored by the lds church. It might not even be lds. Mormons have the fairwiki which is owned by the lds apologists.

Also, information is deleted if it is heresay or if it has nothing to do with the text. To have answersplease write on mormonwiki is like having a diehard anticatholic writing on a catholic sponsored wiki about the catholic church. It would not be allowed.

 

[why_me]

If their founder was a religious con-man, why do you think they’ll have any concern for the truth themselves?

If catholicanswers had a wiki about the catholic church would they allow an anticatholic to post in their wiki pages information that was negative or heresay? I don’t think so. And who is ‘they’? Mormonwiki is sponsored by the Moregoodfoundation which is dedicated to positive lds content. Answersplease is a rule breaker and so, his comments were deleted.

 

[why_me]

And why is this thread worth four stars? And who gave it four stars? Hopefully not the OP since that would not be an example of charity and humbleness, something a good catholic should possess.

 

[Answersplease]

Answersplease:

This link doesn’t work:

samchase.tv/wiki/Joseph_Smith,_Jr.

But if do an internet search for “slapped him in the face and kicked him into the yard”, using different search engines (Google doesn’t seem to bring it up), then if you click on that link from the search page, the article should come up.

 

[why_me]

Oh…someone actually gave this thread five stars! Hmmm…I wonder who could have done that?

 

[Answersplease]

Mormonwiki is sponsored by the Moregoodfoundation which is dedicated to positive lds content. Answersplease is a rule breaker and so, his comments were deleted.

Answersplease:

For the record, I did not write that Mormonwiki page.

You are wrongly accusing both me and the person who made that Mormonwiki page who is probably a good Mormon who didn’t know that I would be quoting his or her page.

 

[why_me]

Hard to follow your posts with red and blue letters. Mormonwiki is sponsored by the More Good Foundation. It is there to spread information about mormonism. If something is heresay or unsubstantiated, it will be removed. If you look at those sentences that were deleted you will see a disconnect. First there is a face slapping and then they are fleeing from a bank fraud. Poor paragraph development and heresay.

 

[Answersplease]

Mormonwiki is sponsored by the More Good Foundation. It is there to spread information about mormonism. If something is heresay or unsubstantiated, it will be removed.

"Answersplease:

It seems they liked that Mormonwiki page enough to keep up for a very long time.

Click the white pointer in the little blue box next to my screen name in the following post, and check out the date I originally posted it: Jul 24, '09.

mormonwiki.org/Lying_for_the_Lord

I first quoted that Mormonwiki page on Jul 24, '09.

Funny how the page stayed up all this time until I recently started to quote from it more often.

 

[Answersplease]

If you look at those sentences that were deleted you will see a disconnect.

First there is a face slapping and then they are fleeing from a bank fraud.

Poor paragraph development and heresay.

Answersplease:

Wow!

Don’t you recognize the author cited in the reference on the websites where that quote can still be found?

That quote is based on information from the following book:

Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling, by Richard Bushman.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_Stone_Rolling

Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling is a biography of Joseph Smith Jr., founder and prophet of the Latter Day Saint movement, by Richard Bushman.

Bushman is both a practicing Latter-day Saint (Mormon) and Gouverneur Morris Professor of History emeritus at Columbia University.

“why me”, are you saying he wrote lies or hearsay in his book?

 

[Answersplease]

If their founder was a religious con-man, why do you think they’ll have any concern for the truth themselves?

And who is ‘they’?

 

[Answersplease]

If their founder was a religious con-man, why do you think they’ll have any concern for the truth themselves?

Answersplease:

The following quotes show everything anybody needs to know.

I doubt that The Holy Spirit guides people into lying.

(Red color and underlining added to highlight the original text.)

From the thread: Milk before meat (link to the thread is below)

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthrea…=411925&page=2

Post #18
(Red color and underlining added to highlight the original text.)
why me:

First, it is not suprising that in public JS would deny polygamy. I would have done so too

since the hatred for mormons was very real. Polygamy would have created an intolerable position for the early mormons if the cat was let out of the bag. And so, I can see denying polygamy in public. No problem.
why me:

…it is not suprising that in public JS would deny polygamy. I would have done so too…

…intolerable position…if the cat was let out of the bag.

…I can see denying polygamy in public. No problem.

Sidney Rigdon in the 18 June 1845 ‘Messenger and Advocate’ reported that Parley P. Pratt, in speaking of the means by which church leaders should sustain Smith, advised that ‘we must lie to protect brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.’

Not only were church leaders willing to violate the law to promote polygamy, they did not hesitate to blacken the character of individuals who threatened to expose the secret practice of plural marriage.
…

-Richard van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy: A History, pp. 38-39

…‘we must lie to protect brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.’

…they did not hesitate to blacken the character of individuals who threatened to expose the secret…
…

-Richard van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy: A History, pp. 38-39

 

[Answersplease]

If their founder was a religious con-man, why do you think they’ll have any concern for the truth themselves?

Answersplease:

The following quotes show everything anybody needs to know.

I doubt that The Holy Spirit guides people into lying.

(Red color and underlining added to highlight the original text.)

From the thread: Milk before meat (link to the thread is below)

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthrea…=411925&page=2

Post #18
(Red color and underlining added to highlight the original text.)
why me:

First, it is not suprising that in public JS would deny polygamy. I would have done so too

since the hatred for mormons was very real. Polygamy would have created an intolerable position for the early mormons if the cat was let out of the bag. And so, I can see denying polygamy in public. No problem.
why me:

…it is not suprising that in public JS would deny polygamy. I would have done so too…

…intolerable position…if the cat was let out of the bag.

…I can see denying polygamy in public. No problem.

Sidney Rigdon in the 18 June 1845 ‘Messenger and Advocate’ reported that Parley P. Pratt, in speaking of the means by which church leaders should sustain Smith, advised that ‘we must lie to protect brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.’

Not only were church leaders willing to violate the law to promote polygamy, they did not hesitate to blacken the character of individuals who threatened to expose the secret practice of plural marriage.
…

-Richard van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy: A History, pp. 38-39

…‘we must lie to protect brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.’

…they did not hesitate to blacken the character of individuals who threatened to expose the secret…
…

-Richard van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy: A History, pp. 38-39

 

[pinay]

Hello answersplease! I’m sorry, I don’t have an answer for you because I haven’t been to those sites.

But, I just want to make a comment that might be relevant to this thread.

There seems to be an expectation that because Joseph Smith is a prophet in the LDS church that he is expected to be perfect or something. This is far from the truth. Jesus Christ is perfect and He is the ONLY one.

Even Moses was prone to anger, so much so that God refused for him to enter the Promised Land. Yet, this did not make his teachings false.

When I studied Joseph Smith’s ministry, I learned about how he and his brother would get into brawls. I learned about how he went against God’s wishes during the translation of the Book of Mormon and got punished for it. I learned about how he tried to avenge the deaths of LDS members and was admonished. I learned about how he tried to push the law of consecration before God’s time and failed. I learned about how he tried to defend himself in Liberty jail. And every other warts the poor guy had.

Because, even if he was a prophet of God, he is still but a man, not God. And every man on this planet - including the Pope of the Holy Roman Catholic Church - are sinners that they require Jesus’ Atonement sacrifice.

There’s a comical skit about Joseph Smith that I saw on video once and my favorite line in that skit goes, “It is tough being a prophet. When a person sins, they confess their sins to the Father. When a prophet sins, it gets written on Doctrine and Covenants.”

Yeah, you don’t have to worry about Joseph Smith’s sins being secret. You can read all about them on Doctrine and Covenants.