Will a believer in "faith alone" who dies enter heaven?

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rarndt01:
There are many, many good Protestant people in the world who love the Lord and trust in him for their salvation and yet have not become Catholic or intend to. Why? Because they believe in the teaching of "faith alone"secures their salvation, rather than the works of faith secures one’s salvation.
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                                  So many do not hold to Jesus' words that one MUST be 'born of water" to enter heaven. Let alone do they consider continued penance a necessity either, because they have been taught the blood of Christ automactically cleanses their sins as they walk by faith alone.

                                   So my question is, what becomes of these people when they die? Does God say, "you didn't know any better and excuse their ignorance?" This truly puzzles me. For I'm sure all of you have god fearing, loving, family members,  who are probably not Catholic and attend Protestant churches. Will they be allowed to enter heaven? I like to hear your answers on this. I frankly don't know. My deceased Mom and Dad were wonderful people and were both Lutheran. My own sister is Pentecostal and my deceased brother was a Baptist. What do you say?
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Let me get this straight. Are you asking if a person who puts his entire trust in Christ alone to save him if that person will be dissapointed? Of course not. “He who believes in me is not condemned.”

It truly amazes me that Catholics claim well meaning Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and Jews can be saved yet question those who actually trust in Jesus alone for their Salvation. He made it clear that anyone who puts their hope in him will not be dissapointed. So don’t let such contradiction confuse you. I am certain many an orthodox Catholic would agree.

And the overwhelming majority of those who believe the very misunderstood “faith alone” do believe you must be baptized and in fact are almost always baptized. Some of us believe baptism is for regeneration like us Lutherans. And we all believe we must follow Christs teaching and live a Godly life. We just happen to acknowledge that we will fail often, but grace abounds. Very very few believe faith alone means you believe in Jesus then do whatever you want. If anyone does believe in such a thing they in fact do not believe in Jesus because they don’t believe what he taught. Their Jesus is a one of their own making.

I know of no practicing Lutheran, Baptist or Pentacostal (I have been all three in my life believe it or not) who truly believes in Christ who does not strive to follow him. They may get baptized way to late (like the Baptists and Pentacostals), but they do get baptized. Just make sure your sister is not involved with the United Pentacostals, they are an anti-Trinitarian cult. But the overwhelming majority of Pentacostals are orthodox Trinitarians.

Rejoice, your relatives were all Christians. If they truly believed in Christ He is faithful. If they were baptized and trusted him you have every reason to be confident that they are in their Saviors embrace. Even if they were imperfect Christians.

Mel
 
It is not what I say, but what Jesus said! What the Apostles taught. If salvation comes simply by sincerely believing in Jesus, then why repent of one’s sins? Why bother being baptized and why even confess one’s sins to God or a priest in the future? If all one must do is believe or have faith ALONE?
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                          Jesus plainly said to be "born of water and the spirit". He also preached on repentance. As did St Peter and St Paul. Acts 2:38 and 17:31. Did they mean what they say? Jesus said the road to eternal life is a NARROW road and not a wide one. Jesus told us through his apostles and the church just how to receive salvation, but will one accept it or not? This is the question. One cannot be saved apart from the sacraments of the church, because the sacraments are the expression of what God desires for us to receive salvation and enter into eternal life. There is no gray area.

                                   Ron from Ohio
 
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rarndt01:
It is not what I say, but what Jesus said! What the Apostles taught. If salvation comes simply by sincerely believing in Jesus, then why repent of one’s sins? Why bother being baptized and why even confess one’s sins to God or a priest in the future? If all one must do is believe or have faith ALONE?
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                          Jesus plainly said to be "born of water and the spirit". He also preached on repentance. As did St Peter and St Paul. Acts 2:38 and 17:31. Did they mean what they say? Jesus said the road to eternal life is a NARROW road and not a wide one. Jesus told us through his apostles and the church just how to receive salvation, but will one accept it or not? This is the question. One cannot be saved apart from the sacraments of the church, because the sacraments are the expression of what God desires for us to receive salvation and enter into eternal life. There is no gray area.

                                   Ron from Ohio
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Let me clarify. The traditional meaning of Faith alone is not a Faith that is alone. You are understanding faith as mere intellectual assent. What we mean is what an ancient Jew would have meant. Faith meant a trust and committment to something or someone.

So wrapped up in faith is repentance. You cannot have true (or a lively) faith if you have not repented of your sins and continually do so. Faith looks like something. True faith works (Ephesians 2: 8-10). But faith is not works but it is proven by them.

I hope that clarifies it for you.

Mel
 
Mel
But what about the sacraments of baptism and rennance? Are they not necessary for the forgiveness of sins as well as belif and repentance?
 
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rarndt01:
Mel
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      But what about the sacraments of baptism and rennance? Are they not necessary for the forgiveness of sins as well as belif and repentance?
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I would put it like this. The sacraments are the normal means of Grace. I would also say that unless one eats his flesh and drinks his blood they have no part in Him. But Roman Catholic children do not partake in this way for several years. Would you say they are not going to be saved if something tragic happend before their first communion?

God has His means. But the bare minumum, if you will, is faith and repentance. The theif on the cross being an example of one who was saved by true repentance and faith.

Mel
 
Mel
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      Your reason is faulty for two reasons. First, little children, especially infants cannot of themselves come forward and receive the sacraments of pennance and the Eucharist. Adults howeverer CAN. Also original sin must be removed and this can only be done through the sacrament of baptism. A guardian or parent can see that this done for a child or infant.

                             But an adult who has the capabilites of reasoning, the bible itself and the means to offer themself for all the sacraments and does not do so is accountable. You forget, that I came from an evangelical background where we knew very well what Catholics embraced. As a Baptist I willfully ridiculed every aspect of Catholicism. It was not that I was ignorant, but that I was mis-informed by my religous leaders. When I FINALLY was confronted with the testimony of the early fathers, I COULD HAVE dismissed the whole matter and remained a Baptist. But I saw TRUTH and I would not nor could not deny historical truths.

                                I believe many men like James White and Eric Svendsen do just that. These are educated men who HAVE examined the testimony of the fathers and yet reject the early father's testimony, because it proves harmful to their Protestant views. They are WITHOUT excuse before God. But those millions of Protestants who have been duped and brainwashed by false teaching are STILL accountable. They have a bible and they SHOULD study these matters out for themselves. 

                                I believe God, the blessed Mother and the saints in heaven will lead any searching Protestant to truth if they so desire it IN THEIR HEART. But many are complacent. Many just trust whatever the preacher says every Sunday morning and many are just apathetic to it all. How do you stand Mel?
 
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jmm08:
It all depends on how alone the “alone” is.

1 Corinthians 13:1-3 If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Conclusions
Mountain-moving Faith alone (without Love) is nothing.
Faith with Charismatic Gifts of the Holy Spirit (without Love) is nothing.
Faith with works including sacrificial giving (if it is all done without Love) is nothing.
It takes Faith and Works and Love and these must come from a Christian Heart. A true Christian Heart starts producing Good Works within a split second. It begins working immediately with prayer. How can somebody have a Christian Heart without the Holy Sacraments? Somebody with a Christian Heart (sent from above) but without the Holy Sacraments will have the desire for the Holy Sacraments.

Don’t forget what kind of Love 1 Cor 13 is talking about. Agape Love. Sacrificial Love. A love that is impossible for humans to have without a Christian Heart.

I’m in RCIA.
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What can be said? This is perfect.
My only hope is that through the sacrement of Reconciliation, my failure to live up to Agape Love is forgiven.
 
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rarndt01:
It is not what I say, but what Jesus said! What the Apostles taught.
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No, that would be putting your private interpretation higher than the magisterium. The final Catholic answer is “What does the Church say today?” Right?

Me being a Protestant, I raised the salvation question a month or so ago. One or two Catholics here maintained that I was apparently a damned Protestant, but the overwhelming consensus was that the Catechism says I’ll be saved.

It sounds weird, I know. According to the Scripture interpretations I read here in the forums, folks like me are set to fry. But several writers offered ways of getting around the incriminating Bible verses and I finally had to admit that they’d made their case.

I’m learning here that Catholicism requires a respectable level of agility. Some will never reach that level, and need to just think about something else.
 
Also if one goes by the premise that all sincere, God loving believers of OTHER faiths will enter heaven anyway, then is the Catholic faith just “another religion” or the ONE true faith? You tell me?

Ok, I am a Christian. That means that I believe that Jesus died for me and that wthout Him life would be without purpose. I try to act the way Jesus wants me to, which includes acts in His name and spreading His Word… I am upset that you do not recognize me as a fellow Christian because I am not Catholic.
CHRISTIANITY IS THE ONE TRUE FAITH
God’s Peace~ Lisa
 
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rarndt01:
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    I as a Baptist was taught that baptism was not a saving sacrament, but a symbol of an inward grace saved Christians do after they are saved.
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Ok I want to get this straight…
Who Will Go To Heaven (if he/they diedan unexpected death) ?
(Keep in mind that I know ONLY GOD can judge and your answer will not influence me, I am simply wondering what CATHLOICS think to gain knowledge.)
A) Someone who was baptized in the Catholic faith, but has long since forgotten the Lord
B) Someone (such as a Baptist) who believes in Believer’s Baptism, but has yet to be baptized
C) Both
D) Neither

Ok I am seeking Catholic opinion. I know, I know, you “know” that Catholic opinion is the truth, not “opinion.” Yet I think that Protestant “opinion” is the truth. Funny how that is.
Anyway, don’t be mad at me and don’t pity me unless you pity me the way you pity yourself, a fellow sinner.
God’s Peace~ Lisa
 
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Malachi4U:
Faith without works/deeds is dead.
Only a living Faith which containes all you believe and do and the way you follow His Gospel.
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Hey! Here is something I fully agree with! One of my favorite bands, Sanctus Real, has a song that says:
“If you don’t have deeds, you have nothing at all. If you don’t have faith, your deeds will fall. They can’t be true without each other. You can’t have one without the other.”
Ok, I didn’t mean to use that as a substitution to a Bible verse, just to summarize in perfect words what I believe to be the truth.
Do all (or at least most) Catholics believe this? Or just you, Malachi4U? Just wondering, please don’t strike at me as I am your sister in Christ.
God’s Peace~ Lisa
PS- If you still feel the need to strike at me, please do it in a polite, Christian manner. Thanks!
 
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Melchior:
If they truly believed in Christ He is faithful. If they were baptized and trusted him you have every reason to be confident that they are in their Saviors embrace. Even if they were imperfect Christians.
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Amen. Christ is faithful to those who truly seek Him with all of their heart.
God’s Peace~ Lisa
 
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Melchior:
The thief on the cross being an example of one who was saved by true repentance and faith.
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Ok that brings up a good point Mel. What about the thief on the cross? I think it can be said that he did not have works? (If there are disputes about the thief’s works or lack thereof, please be sure to let me know.) Surely none of you fine Catholics (not sarcasm) can presume to contradict the words of your Savior, Christ Jesus. He did tell the thief, “Today you shall be with me in paradise.” Are there any “explanations” for this? Do tell.

Again, please don’t lash out at me. I don’t mean to make anyone mad or upset or anything… you have a belief as I do, and I would appreciate you sharing it with me. After all, we all want the same thing, right? We want to love and serve the Lord and His Will? Please say “yes.”

God’s Peace~ Lisa
 
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JesusFreak16:
Ok that brings up a good point Mel. What about the thief on the cross? I think it can be said that he did not have works? (If there are disputes about the thief’s works or lack thereof, please be sure to let me know.) Surely none of you fine Catholics (not sarcasm) can presume to contradict the words of your Savior, Christ Jesus. He did tell the thief, “Today you shall be with me in paradise.” Are there any “explanations” for this? Do tell.

Again, please don’t lash out at me. I don’t mean to make anyone mad or upset or anything… you have a belief as I do, and I would appreciate you sharing it with me. After all, we all want the same thing, right? We want to love and serve the Lord and His Will? Please say “yes.”

God’s Peace~ Lisa
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He rebuked the other criminal for mocking Jesus, that is a work. It could also be said that he probably would have done works if he had the chance.
 
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jimmy:
He rebuked the other criminal for mocking Jesus, that is a work. It could also be said that he probably would have done works if he had the chance.
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Thanks, Jimmy, for saying that he “probably would ahve done works if he had the chance.” I share this belief with you. What does this mean for others like this thief who had no chance to do works?

God’s Peace~
Lisa
 
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JesusFreak16:
Thanks, Jimmy, for saying that he “probably would ahve done works if he had the chance.” I share this belief with you. What does this mean for others like this thief who had no chance to do works?

God’s Peace~
Lisa
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Same principle, someone baptised and hit instantly after by a plane hitting the Church for example would be saved.
 
Peace be with you all,

I think many of us are resorting to conjecture and personal intrepretation of Holy Scripture to inform our decisions on this very heavy topic. I pray that Christ’s Mercy embraces all who are repentent on the Day of Judgement. I know where salvation “is” but I don’t know where it “is not”, in that I pray the breadth of God’s Grace is greater than any of our expectations. Amen.

Peace, Love and Blessings,
 
“Faith without works is dead.” I cannot believe that anyone can have a true faith in Jesus Christ and not have accomplished some sort of religious work in honor of the Love that they should have for Our Blessed Lord.

Since it is impossible to have real faith and not make use of it, then it is impossible to face God with faith and no works.

Heaven is won by faith and works.
 
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GrzeszDeL:
Apparently the Council of Trent does not hold that “faith alone” types will be saved (see canon 9).
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But the definition that Trent gives to “faith alone” is wholly other than the definition given by the Lutherans and Arminians (supralapsarian Calvinism is its own beast, having more in common with Mecca than Jerusalem, IIRC)

The Reformers (except -maybe- Calvin, who -may- have believed with the Gesenian faction that faith was only a -result- of salvation, and not the means of reception) would have condemned “faith alone” as defined by Trent, just as strongly as the bishops did. The various Reformers were not teaching what the Tridentine council -thought- that they were teaching.

But people were too ornery, or too arrogant, or too corrupt to talk to each other. When Melancton tried to improve the language of the Augsburg confession so that it would be understood correctly by Catholic theologians, many Lutherans opposed his doing so(!?!?!?!?) and were called “Protestants” as a result of their protest. Brothers, this should not be so among us!
 
Hey there,
I believe that if you are true in your faith and to God
…that you have repented of your sins…and done
God’s will for your life…then
sure you can probably enter heaven…

thats what i think…
Dayna:bounce:
 
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