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Sellers1
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and Hymn 688 (A Mighty Fortress Is Our God). What a beautiful expression to top it all off!
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gurneyhalleck1
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There are some Anglicans that are VERY hostile to Catholicism and have a chip on their shoulder about Rome. They don’t like the stance on divorce mostly. If we had a dime for every Catholic that wanted multiple divorces who was refused and became an Anglican we’d be loaded. I met a lot of Anglicans who felt that way when I used to be one. And many are hostile to the male-only priesthood and they hang on to that 60’s Gloria Steinam social justice gospel about feminism. Some have that “I don’t have to check my brains out at the door!” mentality about Catholicism.
However, don’t underestimate the amount of Anglicans out there who struggle with the papacy, indulgences, etc. but who are “high” church Anglicans who love the Blessed Virgin, Adoration, 7 sacraments, and who seem more Catholic than the Pope. Those folks may be happy with the ACNA “idea” but just wait a while. The ACNA is doomed to failure. It is a group of Episcopalians basically, only they don’t like abortion and homosexuality. That’s about it. They agree to disagree too much, bury their heads in the sand and sweep the issue of women’s ordination under the doormat, and there is an undercurrent of discord already. It’s really a reconstituted Episcopal Church. And the high church folks in that group will likely want to puke as they see the women’s ordination issue not resolved and the dream of union with the OCA not ever materialize.
Those high church folks want unity, tradition, and they often have a high regard for the papacy. My friends were Anglicans for years, high church Anglicans, and they got fed up with the liberal, lost, confused nature of the Anglican Communion and they are full-on Catholics now, more strict and devout than I.
Catholicism, despite all its challenges and tribulations in recent years, is growing, thriving, and is a major voice in the marketplace of ideas and morality. Anglicanism has lost its relevent largely and its voice has grown hoarse!
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Sellers1
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You don’t even have a clue about the thousands of Anglicans who left their Episcopal parishes and left behind millions of dollars in endowment funds, loved one buried in church memorial gardens and the generations of family who attended. These folks gave this all up for the gospel of Jesus Christ. Many of them worship in homes and churches leaving behind plush churches because they are starting over financially. Keep making your wisecracks about how Rome is (It). These folks have shown the Christian world what it is like to give up your possesions and leaving your loved ones behind to follow Christ. (Edited)
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I know MERRILY ON HIGH, but had forgotten the author’s name. I’m that old, at least.
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I know many Anglicans. Including some who are definitely interested in what Rome has to offer. Not all, but some.
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*Anglicanus-Catholicus, posterus traditus Anglicanus *
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gurneyhalleck1
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Sir, can you please show me where in my post I made a “wisecrack?” Do you even know what a wisecrack is? Apparently not. Please point out where I made it.
Secondly, I haven’t a clue? Really? I communicate with a bishop in the ACNA, an assistant bishop, a priest, and several folks who are in the ACNA in capacities across this country. You haven’t a clue as to what I know, friend. And by the way, did I ever doubt the sincerity of all Anglicans? If you spend some time here on CAF and actually read my posts, I defend Anglicans of the orthodox brand quite regularly and consider a few of them in here to be excellent online friends. I merely responded to your post, which ignorantly paints all Anglicans as being the same (the most absurd proposition ever made considering Anglicans have the widest possible range of beliefs in all of Christendom!) brand cut from the same mold, all disliking Catholicism and saying that none of them will convert but rather be comfy with ACNA. I merely pointed out, and I see this made you uncomfortable for some odd reason, that there are still Anglicans who are not thrilled with how this ACNA is turning out. Now if you want to dance in a green prairie pretending that all Anglicans are thrilled and skipping through meadows thrilled with this new province, you go on believing that. But I happen to talk to a lot of Anglicans and many are saying they’re dubious about it and considering either going to a Protestant evangelical church or the Roman Catholic Church, a prospect that clearly terrifies you.
Also, leaving people in a graveyard is not leaving loved ones. Hopefully we all understand that a corpse is dead and that the spirits of our loved ones are, God-willing, with Christ. It is painful indeed to give up church property. I have watched it, admire the people who are willing to do it, and I know they do so with sincere moral clarity and a desire to please God. Obviously they’re not doing it for the heck of it.
Your last statement, “Most of them (hilarious in itself, like you know how all these folks feel, talk about prescient abilities!) couldn’t give less than a damn about Rome or what it believes about itself and rightfully so.” You’re obviously channeling, doing a little projection, about your hostility and anger toward Catholicism and sticking it on the entire Anglican populace of the ACNA. Fascinating, as Mr. Spock would say. See, now that is a wisecrack!
Just in case you haven’t read the many stories of Catholic converts, you know that many Protestants give up just as much if not more to BECOME Catholic, than the folks you mention who walk away from graveyards and structures. There are Protestants whose families have disowned them for becoming Catholic, people who have gone through serious emotional strains with spouses or friends for their conversions. Look at how men like Scott Hahn and Marcus Grodi have given up the power and prestige of their pastorships to become Catholics. There are many ministers and other clergy who have left their flocks to join the Roman Catholic faith. Anglicans fleeing TEC are not the only folks who know what it is to sacrifice, Sellers. I myself gave up many good friends and a wonderful priest as well as THE greatest bishop in the ACNA, Bishop Schofield, to become Catholic. My family made sacrifices, too. And I didn’t enjoy walking away from the edifice either.
Apprently I dreamed up the bishops and priests I know who regularly talk with me about becoming Catholic, about my own friend and his wife who became Catholic, and about folks from my old Anglican parish who have come over to Catholicism. All of them leaving Anglicanism. I must’ve dreamed that because I 'haven’t a clue."
Your post does not address the big elephant in the room, women’s ordination, the very issue that sent the Episcopal Church into a tailspin in the mid 70’s, that will most likely do so again here in a few years. Spend some time in CAF and talk to ANGLICANS, not just Catholics, and most will tell you that they are dubious, cynical, and not at all happy with ACNA’s agenda so far. Many don’t like Duncan, the WO settlement, the strange dichotomy of agreeing to disagree about numerous issues while at the same time claiming to want to merge with Orthodox Church of America? Do you seriously think these folks will heed Metropolitan Jonah’s admonition to give up all women’s ordination, drop all vestiges of Calvinism from their theology, and cut out the filioque? Do you seriously think that’ll happen? I know an Anglican bishop who was at that convention who said that all the bishops were shaking their heads and rolling their eyes at that statement.
I find your post to be very lacking in real substance and the end is vulgar in tone. You sound quite hostile to all things Catholic and I’m in fact quite perplexed as to what brings you to a Catholic forum with such an attitude.
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I figured the most charitable take on that post was to assume the poster’s ignorance. I knew you would fill in the blanks.Thanks, GKC.
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Padrej
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Your post has you listed as a Roman Catholic and I cannot believe that you prefer the Episcopal Rite II Chinese Menu style over the Roman Missal. One of the things that I admire of the Roman Rites is their diversity but they stick to one basic theology, unlike the Rite II of the 79 BCP which is all over the board theologically. For example the first time I heard the eucharistic prayer that mentions God creating the cosmos… that has been nicknamed the “Star Wars liturgy” by clergy I could not concentrate over its wording as it was not one that lifted up Christ but only mentiond Him as an afterthought. It made me wonder if the sacrament was even truly blessed.
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rr1213
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I know something about it…I’m one of those who fled my low-church evangelical Episcopal parish where I had been a parishoner for fifteen years, choir member, registrar, vestryman and senior warden. My wife was sunday school coordinator for many years as well as a member of the vestry. Two of my three children were baptised there and all three were confirmed in the Episcopal Church there. Even though my parish was orthodox in a Protestant sense, it lost over ten very active families who could no longer tolerate the apostacy of TEC on the national level. The expatriates ended up all over the place, including the AMiA, the LCMS, Reformed bodies, non-denominational, and Baptist amongst others. After three years in ecclesiastical limbo, my wife and I sought communion with, and were received, into the Catholic Church. I always wondered why the folks who left my parish ended up all over the spectrum, but I suppose that the unifying element was the evangelical nature of the parish they left and the congregations which they joined. The only folks who departed from that template in any real sense are those of us who ended up in the Catholic Church or the LCMS.
So, I suppose that this is a long way of saying don’t assume that there aren’t folks here who are more than familiar with what is happening in TEC and other Anglican circles…
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rr1213
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Take a look at the Order of Mass from the Anglican Use.
atonementonline.com/orderofmass/Rite1.html
From my review, it seems to follow Rite II pretty closely with respect to the Liturgy of the Word. As might be expected, it departs from the BCP significantly with respect to the Liturgy of the Eucharist, but you can still see the similarities.
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Rite II was a typo. He meant Rite I.
The 1928 Book of Common Prayer is superior to either, esp. if supplemented from the Anglican Missal.
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Padrej
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I agree with you 100% there. The BIG falsehood told when the 79 BCP came out was that Rite I was the “same as the 28 BCP” WRONG it is the same as the Anglican Missal. The 1928 was closer in its usage to the Anglican Missal than the 79 ever was. The Missal added back the “historic usage” prayers that were so loved by the Anglo Catholic party and the altar edition of it was far more Marian in nature than the people’s edition so the priest could add the optional prayers to Mary if he wanted.
Great observation.
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