Will a lifeline be accepted by struggling Anglicans

[VARC]

I have lurked here on and off for about years, and If I’m not mistaken, you are a member of a continuing church.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. I had a very bad experience in one of your schools after finishing from a Catholic girls school, and being lied to that Anglicans were “just like Catholics”.

I learnt the hard way that you guys are not, not only in terms of theology, but how you treat people outside of your, how can I say, ethnic demographic, although your schools were none to happy to ram abortion and contraception ideology down the throats of their whoring Godless white “Christian” students. Funnily enough, I was one of the few people who was saving myself for marriage as Christianity requires, along with attending Mass every Sunday- as the Church requires also.

Teachers were more concerned with the aesthetics of appearing Christian- and not acting like one.

My tolerance for such “all style and no substance” Christianity had already diminished by that time, as I have been very unfortunate to be raised by vacuous hypocritical “Catholic” idiotic parents who would rather applause “appearing to act like Christians” over actually being Christians.

That your church institutionalises and morphs Christianity into a cultural and class identity angers me greatly. You are free to hold such viewpoints, but not under the guise of Christianity, and not with unsuspecting young minds who often up wounded by the junk Christianity you peddle.

I’m so sick of seeing “Christian” and “Catholic” imprinted on the outside of buildings which serve no true Christian purpose, deceiving those of us who wish to get some Christian perspective on education and other areas.

Call a spade a spade and admit what you are: quasi European Catholics where Christianity comes second place.

Again, like I’ve said repeatedly, I will receive my justice when the CofE here in the UK implodes. There are already calls to remove the Anglican Bishops in the House of Lords, and abrogate the 1701 Law of settlement.

Faith will only begin to flourish again in the UK, when that joke of a church relinquishes her stranglehold on England.

I eagerly await the day.

On behalf of Anglicans everywhere, I apologize that you had some negative childhood experiences with the C of E that have made you so bitter and resentful. Perhaps you may want to question whether those experiences justify such hostility towards Anglicans of good will? We’re not all immoral, white elitists

 

[GKC]

The kind of person it made me was someone who is no longer swept away by outside labels and appearances. I now look inwards at all Churches- including the RC- which I no longer count myself to be a part of.

Your pretence of Catholicism is very very damaging to the unsuspecting and if you guys were any sort of Christians, you’d advertise this very clearly to those entering your institutions expecting to find some sense of Christian belief.

Those who are wise will leave before it all comes crashing down, if not for Catholicism but Orthodoxy or even the Evangelical Churches who have more hope for sustenance than the Anglican Church.

From the outside, that is not the salient and most prominent feature of what you are, as shown in these posts, anyway.

And again, you have no idea what sort of Anglican I, or those like me might be. There is no need for you to amend that. But, as you probably suspected, I don’t think that you will cause the topic of Anglicanism to disappear from the board. Or anywhere else.

GKC

 

[querying]

I do not see a unity within the Anglican communion, if that is what you are referring to. It may continue as a schismatic ecclesial community within itself, dividing over and over again.

Hopefully, and into oblivion.

If Anglicanism wants to get itself right, it will need to make a serious effort to unite with the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. Otherwise, the Anglican communion will go the way of all other protestant sects.

Which is what Contari and GKC don’t get. GKC’s continuing church will also be short lived, insignificant or both, just like the Old catholic church.

There is a mass swimming of the Tiber by Evangelicals, Lutherans etc- because they are realistic enough to see where their denominations will most likely end up in future.

For some strange reason, Anglicans think they are immune from the ultimate disintegration which inevitably awaits most protestant denominations. They will be humbled with time…

 

[GKC]

Hopefully, and into oblivion.

Which is what Contari and GKC don’t get. GKC’s continuing church will also be short lived, insignificant or both, just like the Old catholic church.

There is a mass swimming of the Tiber by Evangelicals, Lutherans etc- because they are realistic enough to see where their denominations will most likely end up in future.

For some strange reason, Anglicans think they are immune from the ultimate disintegration which inevitably awaits most protestant denominations. They will be humbled with time…

Could be.

And again, that’s Contarini. You could google it.

GKC

 

[querying]

On behalf of Anglicans everywhere, I apologize that you had some negative childhood experiences with the C of E that have made you so bitter and resentful. Perhaps you may want to question whether those experiences justify such hostility towards Anglicans of good will? We’re not all immoral, white elitists

Nor are all Muslims are suicide bombers, yet there is a lot of warranted hostility aimed at them in these forums- which I’ve happily contributed to myself- as their religion is clearly a dangerous one, even if most of their followers, at least in the west, are nice people.

The world would be better without their religion, as Christianity would also be much stronger, at least in England, without all things Anglican.

Change your religion, or stick a sign on all your institutions revealing what you truly are about. I’d of much preferred to see the “no blacks, dogs and Irish” sign plastered on the outsides of your institutions than to have learnt the hard way and suffered such disruption at a critical point in my life.

 

[querying]

Could be.

And again, that’s Contarini. You could google it.

GKC

No- it will be.

And that you are so lax about the inevitable disintegration of your church just says it all about how seriously you take your “church”.

But hey- as long as you have your bells, smells and whistles, “it’s all good”.

 

[GKC]

No- it will be.

And that you are so lax about the inevitable disintegration of your church just says it all about how seriously you take your “church”.

But hey- as long as you have your bells, smells and whistles, “it’s all good”.

Could be.

GKC

 

[VARC]

The world would be better without their religion, as Christianity would also be much stronger, at least in England, without all things Anglican.

I think you are proposing a false dichotomy. It’s not as if C of E were to close down tommorrow then everybody would convert to catholicim or orthodoxy. They would probably just join another branch of liberal christianity. And don’t get your hopes up. Liberal christianity isn’t going anywhere.

Change your religion, or stick a sign on all your institutions revealing what you truly are about. I’d of much preferred to see the “no blacks, dogs and Irish” sign plastered on the outsides of your institutions than to have learnt the hard way and suffered such disruption at a critical point in my life.

I’m sorry that you were treated that way in the C of E. I can assure you that you wouldn’t receive that kind of treatment from TEC. It is one of the most inclusive and diverse churches in the USA. It’s ironic that their inclusive disposition would become the object of such contempt by you given your past experiences.

 

[querying]

I think you are proposing a false dichotomy. It’s not as if C of E were to close down tommorrow then everybody would convert to catholicim or orthodoxy. They would probably just join another branch of liberal christianity.

As long as their church is no longer the state religion, don’t hold a place in the Houses of Lords, and cease pretending to appear Catholic, then this would bother me very little.

And don’t get your hopes up. Liberal christianity isn’t going anywhere.

It is in fact dying, or have you not been paying attention to the reports that the young are non existant in liberal denominations and parishes throughout the Christian body?

Young people normally either cling to orthodoxy or give up on religion altogether- which is all for the best.

I’m sorry that you were treated that way in the C of E. I can assure you that you wouldn’t receive that kind of treatment from TEC. It is one of the most inclusive and diverse churches in the USA. It’s ironic that their inclusive disposition would become the object of such contempt by you given your past experiences.

Please don’t throw in to the same demographic as sodomites thank you very much. I would much rather not be surrounded by the freak show known as Episcopalians.

And for your information, the Anglican school I attended was rather liberal, in that they invited speakers to advise us on where to get abortions, had condom ads all over the place, and even had a butch (probably lesbian) woman lead their service- much to my horror and disgust.

The Catholic school I attended was more orthodox than the Anglican school I attended- which had a leading butch lesbo priest- yet I never had the experience in Catholic school than I did by Anglicans who are supposed to be more “tolerant”.

The spineless worthless hypocrites.

 

[BernadetteM]

If there are priests with congregations within the US who are tired of waiting for TAC to be recieved into the Church, they might want to come in through the already established Pastoral Provision. There have been 3 new congregations who have started the process already.

They can contact the St. Thomas More Society, the e-mail address is stthomasmoresociety.org/. They can also call the office at (570) 343-0634.

The first parishes to be recieved into the Catholic Church through the Pastoral Provision only had to wait about 3 years I believe.

There are many complications with TAC that the other parishes didn’t have. We don’t know what conversations have gone on between the leaders of TAC and the Vatican.

I am sure that Rome is well aware of the differences of churchmanship within TAC.

If a community of Anglicans want to truely be part of the Catholic Church under the guidelines of what Rome has to offer them, then I believe that they will be accepted.

As a former part of the Anglican Communion I realize that many want it their way or no way. At least that was what I experienced. This is not possible when dealing with Rome. They were very generous with the initial parishes. I don’t feel that this has anything to do with the Holy Father. Of course he is going to tread very slowly if there are obvious problems within TAC.

There is also the problem in some dioceses of the Bishop not being supportive, but as time has gone by more of them have opened their doors to an AU parish.

It is wise to not believe all that is put out by the media or on a website about what is really happening regarding TAC. No one really knows except the leaders of TAC and the Church.

All we can do is pray that more and more former Anglicans who wish to become Catholic and have a priest and community of people will enter into the Church soon.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[querying]

Question revisited:

**Someone please answer me this: Why is it bordering on anathema to criticise Anglicans but perfectly acceptable to criticise Evangelicals and Mormons- and even the Orthodox who have more in common with Catholicism than the ghastly Anglicans?
**

 

[RevDrNorth]

As long as their church is no longer the state religion, don’t hold a place in the Houses of Lords, and cease pretending to appear Catholic, then this would bother me very little.

It is in fact dying, or have you not been paying attention to the reports that the young are non existant in liberal denominations and parishes throughout the Christian body?

Young people normally either cling to orthodoxy or give up on religion altogether- which is all for the best.

Please don’t throw in to the same demographic as sodomites thank you very much. I would much rather not be surrounded by the freak show known as Episcopalians.

And for your information, the Anglican school I attended was rather liberal, in that they invited speakers to advise us on where to get abortions, had condom ads all over the place, and even had a butch (probably lesbian) woman lead their service- much to my horror and disgust.

The Catholic school I attended was more orthodox than the Anglican school I attended- which had a leading butch lesbo priest- yet I never had the experience in Catholic school than I did by Anglicans who are supposed to be more “tolerant”.

The spineless worthless hypocrites.

You are VERY angry with your parents and with your experiences in the Anglican Church based on your posts. Speaking with a spiritual director may be helpful both for spiritual growth and to work through these other issues. There have been people harmed in any number of churches including the Catholic Church. You want to be able to witness well for your faith and that means having a healthy spiritual condition.

Unless, all of this hyperbole and overblown stuff is really just to get a rise out of people (as your attacks on GKC seem to be designed to do). In which case taking up stamp collecting may be healthier. :coffeeread:

 

[GKC]

I’m always sorry to delete a post, but the post I thought I was replying to disappeared and what I sent wouldn’t make sense without it.

GKC

 

[VARC]

Question revisited:

**Someone please answer me this: Why is it bordering on anathema to criticise Anglicans but perfectly acceptable to criticise Evangelicals and Mormons- and even the Orthodox who have more in common with Catholicism than the ghastly Anglicans?
**

I don’t think anybody has that much of a problem with criticising Anglicanism. There are quite a few critics of Anglicanism on this board. The problem is the way in which you criticise Anglicanism. You use a lot of broad generalizations. Also, your personal history with Anglicans causes you to lash out with vitriol that is unbecoming of a Christian.

 

[GKC]

I don’t anybody has that much of a problem with criticising Anglicanism. There are quite a few critics of Anglicanism on this board. The problem is the way in which you criticise Anglicanism. You use a lot of broad generalizations. Also, your personal history with Anglicans causes you to lash out with vitriol that is unbecoming of a Christian.

And some of the critics of Anglicanism are Anglicans.

GKC

 

[Padrej]

As a Catholic, I believe that Anglican orders per se are null and void. Nonetheless, we do know that since that proclamation that there has been a number of ordinations in the Anglican ranks by outside bishops with valid apostolic succession that have taken the proper form and manifesting the proper intent. To the best of my knowledge, the Catholic Church has not yet spoken definitively on whether this alters the conclusion of Apostolicae Curae. My personal belief is that it some Anglicans consequently have valid orders yet, until this addressed by the Church, I won’t know for certain. Maybe if Rome ever acts on TAC’s proposal we’ll have our answer…

Ruling from Rome: “valid but irregular”
The “Null and Viod” stopped after 1874 with the first “Order of Corporate Reunnion” talks with Rome took place. The Apostolic See consecrated 4 bishops then to start a new line. There are still some of us who follow in this line. There are others who have (as myself) recent blessings as 2003.

 

[VARC]

I think that most Anglo-catholic jurisdiction are going to stay where they are: diverse groups seperated from everybody. I think in time that they will be absorbed by the RCC or the Orthodox jurisdictions. A lot are pretty disillusioned about the concept of Anglicanism as a seperate entity by now.

The ethos of Anglicanism has always been a via media. Up until now it has been a middle way between catholicism and protestantism. Today, I would argue that it is a middle way being religion and modern scientific and sociolgical norms. This seems to be a bridge to far for many Anglicans. Anglo-catholics apparently didn’t mind communion with Calvinists who would dissent on the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist but wouldn’t maintain communion with Christians that ordain women.

There aren’t very many Anglo-catholics left. 20,000 in the U.S. tops. Rome might possibly set up a uniate situation with them but I doubt it. They’ll probably demand individual conversion and re-ordination when applicable. I don’t expect the orthodox to be much more sympathetic. They are suspicious of all things western. The Western Vicariate with the option of the “Liturgy of St. Tikon” (the name seems somewhat offensive to Anglican heritage) will be the best they can realistically hope for where they are looked down upon by most of the orthodox world.

 

[Padrej]

I don’t think anybody has that much of a problem with criticising Anglicanism. There are quite a few critics of Anglicanism on this board. The problem is the way in which you criticise Anglicanism. You use a lot of broad generalizations. Also, your personal history with Anglicans causes you to lash out with vitriol that is unbecoming of a Christian.

AMEN!!! Well said!!!

 

[GKC]

Ruling from Rome: “valid but irregular”
The “Null and Viod” stopped after 1874 with the first “Order of Corporate Reunnion” talks with Rome took place. The Apostolic See consecrated 4 bishops then to start a new line. There are still some of us who follow in this line. There are others who have (as myself) recent blessings as 2003.

Ah. I see. Though I understand a few of the details a little differently, following Anson, pp. 69-90, and a few places in Brandreth.

GKC

 

[Padrej]

If there are priests with congregations within the US who are tired of waiting for TAC to be recieved into the Church, they might want to come in through the already established Pastoral Provision. There have been 3 new congregations who have started the process already.

They can contact the St. Thomas More Society, the e-mail address is stthomasmoresociety.org/. They can also call the office at (570) 343-0634.

The first parishes to be recieved into the Catholic Church through the Pastoral Provision only had to wait about 3 years I believe.

There are many complications with TAC that the other parishes didn’t have. We don’t know what conversations have gone on between the leaders of TAC and the Vatican.

I am sure that Rome is well aware of the differences of churchmanship within TAC.

If a community of Anglicans want to truely be part of the Catholic Church under the guidelines of what Rome has to offer them, then I believe that they will be accepted.

As a former part of the Anglican Communion I realize that many want it their way or no way. At least that was what I experienced. This is not possible when dealing with Rome. They were very generous with the initial parishes. I don’t feel that this has anything to do with the Holy Father. Of course he is going to tread very slowly if there are obvious problems within TAC.

There is also the problem in some dioceses of the Bishop not being supportive, but as time has gone by more of them have opened their doors to an AU parish.

It is wise to not believe all that is put out by the media or on a website about what is really happening regarding TAC. No one really knows except the leaders of TAC and the Church.

All we can do is pray that more and more former Anglicans who wish to become Catholic and have a priest and community of people will enter into the Church soon.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

Bernadette
This process was far easier under John Paul II than the current Pontiff. Benedict XVI’s predecessor was far more eccumenical in nature and more accepting of those of us willing to “swim the Tiber.” Under the curent regime I dont forsee (In my opinion) any new Anglican use parrishes springing up unless something drastic happens like a whole diocese comes in.
Perhaps the more praying for this by being specific in our prayers the better. I have always been an advocate of being very specific in prayer.