Will a lifeline be accepted by struggling Anglicans

[VARC]

If the authority in my Church cannot teach me the faith handed down with absolute certainty of its truth claims, then all I am taught to believe is subject to revision in the future.

.

This is a recurring theme I find amongst Catholics: The need for an infallible ruler that will give them “absolutely certainty”. Of course nobody can ever be absolutely certain that the Pope or the RCC is actually infallble.One can only believe it is true on a “leap of faith”. So the “absolute certainty” of RCs is only a self induced delusion. No offence.

 

[chris_molter]

And how do you arrive at position of that being soley your Catholic church?

Process of elimination

I don’t agree. If the Catechism states that there is no Salvation outside the Catholic church (which it does state), then why would it be the least bit important to look at the
intellectual and spiritual aspects of other Christian faiths? The truth is that the Catholic church couldn’t give two hoots about what anyone else is doing or saying.

Somehow I get the feeling you’ve never actually read any of what the Church actually teaches regarding ecumenical relations, nor the development of the doctrine of “no salvation outside the Church” (aka Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus or EENS for short).

 

[chris_molter]

This is a recurring theme I find amongst Catholics: The need for an infallible ruler that will give them “absolutely certainty”. Of course nobody can ever be absolutely certain that the Pope or the RCC is actually infallble.One can only believe it is true on a “leap of faith”. So the “absolute certainty” of RCs is only a self induced delusion. No offence.

None taken. I can’t say it’s any more delusional than than being “absolutely certain” a Jewish carpenter, who was really the second person of a triune deity that created all existence died and came back from the dead while only revealing the truth to a bunch of hicks from 1st century Palestine.

Now, really… are the claims of the Catholic Church THAT hard to believe?

 

[Justy90]

Process of elimination

Somehow I get the feeling you’ve never actually read any of what the Church actually teaches regarding ecumenical relations, nor the development of the doctrine of “no salvation outside the Church” (aka Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus or EENS for short).

Well, you are mistaken. I was Catholic and a devout one for the vast part of my life. Just because a person is a Protestant whether they left Catholicsm or have always been a Protestant doesn’t automatically make them ignorant of the Catholic faith.

 

[chris_molter]

Well, you are mistaken. I was Catholic and a devout one for the vast part of my life. Just because a person is a Protestant whether they left Catholicsm or have always been a Protestant doesn’t automatically make them ignorant of the Catholic faith.

And just because someone was Catholic for however long doesn’t preclude them from saying silly and patently untrue things like:

the Catholic church couldn’t give two hoots about what anyone else is doing or saying.

or misunderstanding what the Church teaches about salvation outside her visible boundaries.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Well, you are mistaken. I was Catholic and a devout one for the vast part of my life. Just because a person is a Protestant whether they left Catholicsm or have always been a Protestant doesn’t automatically make them ignorant of the Catholic faith.

Hi Justy,

I agree with your last point in that some folks on CAF think that nobody who truly understood Catholicism could leave it. I disagree with that. I have met several very very intelligent, thoughtful, God-fearing Protestants who were formerly Catholic and just plain disagreed with the theology. They moved on to what they felt to be greener pastures. They weren’t ignorant boobs but just not in agreement. I agree with you that it’s silly to assume fallen-away Catholics just don’t “get it” or are lost sheep or have a poorly-formed theological background.

 

[Justy90]

Hi Justy,

I agree with your last point in that some folks on CAF think that nobody who truly understood Catholicism could leave it. I disagree with that. I have met several very very intelligent, thoughtful, God-fearing Protestants who were formerly Catholic and just plain disagreed with the theology. They moved on to what they felt to be greener pastures. They weren’t ignorant boobs but just not in agreement. I agree with you that it’s silly to assume fallen-away Catholics just don’t “get it” or are lost sheep or have a poorly-formed theological background.

Thank you for your response. On the flipside, even though I consider myself pretty well catechized when I was Catholic, I certainly wouldn’t claim to be the ne plus ultra of Catholic know it alls. I think that no matter where it is we worship, there is always more that we can learn about our doctrines and of course about Christ. God’s wisdom is always infinite while no matter what we think we know, we are always severely limited.

 

[VARC]

None taken. I can’t say it’s any more delusional than than being “absolutely certain” a Jewish carpenter, who was really the second person of a triune deity that created all existence died and came back from the dead while only revealing the truth to a bunch of hicks from 1st century Palestine.

Now, really… are the claims of the Catholic Church THAT hard to believe?

Yes I do believe they are. It got to the point for me that I couldn’t strain credulity any further.One has to really want to believes it claims and grapple incessantly to synchronize it with history. No wonder there is an entire apologetics industry to help RCs to do this.

But I wouldn’t say that I was “absolutely certain” about the Incarnation either. I believe it and hold it as an article of faith. But I have no illusions of “absolute certainty” about it because I wasn’t there and never actually met Him. I am “absolutely certain” that I live in Virginia and that I had a burger for dinner tonight. I don’t need faith to believe that because there is “absolutely” no doubt in my mind those things are true. I have faith in the divinity of Jesus, not certainty. If one has certainty, one doesn’t need faith. I guess that’s you.