Will Benedict XVI ever celebrate the Extraordinary Form?

[ethelzguy]

I do hope to see something from the Pope regarding an EF Mass, but because I believe it will strengthen the faith among his flock. We clearly live in a time when many people see the Latin Mass as a threat or a break with Vatican II. This is because of a failed understanding of the Council and a perception of a break with the past in this regard. The Holy Father is teaching that there is no break and this can only mean that it is bad for Catholics to think that there is. I think a Papal Mass using the Extraordinary Form would help make that clear. For me it certainly is not an issue about “preference.”

Patrick

But, because he says Mass in the OF today, doesn’t mean he prefers it, any more than if he says Mass in the EF tomorrow makes any similar statement. The pro-TLM crowd seems to be watching his every move with bated breath, looking for something to latch on to, so they can declare “victory” over the OF/NO.

 

[JReducation]

Perhaps the Holy Father will celebrate a Mass using the Extraordinary Form, perhaps he won’t. It’s his prerogative. We can speculate all we want, but we do not know if or when it will happen. In my own humble opinion, should he celebrate the Extraordinary Form, I don’t think that he would do it to “prove” anything about this form of the Mass other than that it is one of the treasured uses of the Roman Rite and is certainly a valid one.

The issuing of the Motu Proprio, which has lifted the restrictions on the Latin Mass (which is now the Extraordinary Form, while the Pauline Mass is currently the Ordinary Form), is how Pope Benedict XVI is trying to heal divisions within the Church that have existed between Catholics who prefer the pre-VII Mass and Catholics who prefer the post-VII Mass. He is aiming for reconciliation among the faithful by allowing the Tridentine Mass to be more available to those who desire it, while at the same time allowing the Pauline Mass to remain in use. I don’t believe His Holiness would desire to “terrify, mortify, and deeply anger” those who do not prefer the Latin Mass if he were to use this particular form at some point.

On the other hand, we, the laity, are the ones who continue to divide the Body of Christ with bickering among ourselves over which form of the Mass is “superior”. It would behoove us all to stop and think carefully about what we say to one another when we post here, considering whether we are speaking/admonishing with true charity and not crossing the line into calumny and slander.

You have just earned a great deal of respect from this corner of the world. The problem is exacerbated by the laity who has taken it upon itself to tell everyone what is superior and better, rather than to share their faith.

As to whether the Pope will ever celebrate mass using the EF in public, I would say that depends on him.

I doubt that he will ever use it to show support for the EF. It is not that he lacks support. He loves the Ef. That being said, let’s remember that this is the Pope who is making it his trademark to remind the world that faith and reason can never be separated. It would not be reasonable to celebrate the Ef in a public arena where the target audience is not in touch with it. It would also be unreasonable and unlike Benedict to celebrate the EF to market it. Benedict takes liturgy very seriously and he is not going to celebrate an EF mass just to show the world how great it is. That would be marketing

If and when he does, it will be for a rational cause. We’ll have to wait for that to happen and we have to start thinking rationally and less with our emotions. Let us remember the words of the Doctor, Catherine of Siena, “How you feel is irrelevant. It’s what you know.”

JR

 

[cothrige]

But, because he says Mass in the OF today, doesn’t mean he prefers it, any more than if he says Mass in the EF tomorrow makes any similar statement.

Who is suggesting that he “prefers” anything? And when has anybody suggested that saying Mass in the EF would be some statement of preference either? I just don’t know why people keep returning to some perceived idea of preference. What I have in mind is the relative impact on the Church such a celebration would have simply in regards to that sense of real continuity that the Holy Father has expressed as his goal.

The pro-TLM crowd seems to be watching his every move with bated breath, looking for something to latch on to, so they can declare “victory” over the OF/NO.

I think this is unfair. I have seen nothing of this here, and certainly not on this thread. I have, as I have said, hoped for this to happen and I really do not see any “victory” over the OF in it. Nothing of the sort. Besides, how could one Mass out of thousands be a victory in the first place? Why do people seem to think that hoping to see the Holy Father celebrate a certain form of the Mass just one time is a sign of “victory”? If this really were some form of competition, which is ridiculous, then it would seem that all of those people trying to suggest that the Holy Father shouldn’t say such a Mass even one single time out of thousands of OF Masses are already celebrating a “victory” and on top of that are hoping that their side is going to run up the score.

Patrick

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I personally just wish each of us would worship in any valid mass of our choice without others thinking they need to debate over it. Be it English, Latin, French, Spanish Vietnamese, Chinese or whatever, the mass is the mass and is infinite in merit. The mass itself is what makes us one in our worship of Jesus, who becomes present for each of us at the consecration. Thank God for that.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[ethelzguy]

I think this is unfair. I have seen nothing of this here, and certainly not on this thread. I have, as I have said, hoped for this to happen and I really do not see any “victory” over the OF in it. Nothing of the sort. Besides, how could one Mass out of thousands be a victory in the first place? Why do people seem to think that hoping to see the Holy Father celebrate a certain form of the Mass just one time is a sign of “victory”? If this really were some form of competition, which is ridiculous, then it would seem that all of those people trying to suggest that the Holy Father shouldn’t say such a Mass even one single time out of thousands of OF Masses are already celebrating a “victory” and on top of that are hoping that their side is going to run up the score.

Patrick

Do you actually read any of the other threads on the TC forum? Not to mention the “traditional” sites out there. There was great wailing and gnashing of teeth over the liturgy and music used while B16 was here a few short weeks ago.

And, you can bet if he celebrated his Masses here in TLM form, we would still be hearing about how he has come to restore the TLM over the NO/OF.

 

[cothrige]

Do you actually read any of the other threads on the TC forum? Not to mention the “traditional” sites out there. There was great wailing and gnashing of teeth over the liturgy and music used while B16 was here a few short weeks ago.

Yes, I have read some of the threads here on that subject, and in other fora, and I did see a lot of criticism or disappointment voiced regarding the celebration of some of the Masses. However, I don’t recall reading anything suggesting that the problem was the OF, but instead saw that a lot of people were disappointed in some of the choices made regarding how the OF itself was being celebrated, especially in such a high profile situation as a Papal Mass. But, why would criticism regarding the particular choices in music or languages used in a Papal Mass automatically result in TLM triumphalism?

And, you can bet if he celebrated his Masses here in TLM form, we would still be hearing about how he has come to restore the TLM over the NO/OF.

Well, that may or may not be, though technically I don’t think that the Holy Father needs to “restore” the EF at this point, which he has said is valid and always has been. But, I would think that what you and others may infer to be a celebration for the death of the OF may be nothing more than a celebration for the life of the EF. Why would such happiness scare everybody so much? And I really cannot see how one Mass in the old form, when compared to thousands in the new, is cause for worry or moaning on the part of the rest of the people. I thought all forms were equal? Why are people threatened by this? I mean think about this. Currently the Holy Father celebrates 100% of the Masses in the OF, and people are really concerned that this number may drop to 99.99999%. Does this really seem reasonable?

Patrick

 

[cothrige]

I personally just wish each of us would worship in any valid mass of our choice without others thinking they need to debate over it.

I basically agree with what you are saying, but don’t you think that there are problems with the particular applications in this instance? I appreciate that you think I should be able to choose any valid Mass, but what if I cannot? For example, there are no Latin Masses within 100 miles of me (or more). Consider this. What if tomorrow the Church decided that all Masses would be EF in Latin, except for one every three weeks in a small church in one city for each Diocese? Would you still say the same thing? What about everyone else? Would all Masses be equal to everybody then? Would we all still rather hope that we could go where we would “choose” and not debate about it? Honestly, I really do doubt it.

I hope you don’t misunderstand me, as I do agree with you about the merits of any valid Mass, regardless of language or form. But then, if language and form had no bearing, there would have never been any reform in the first place. I think that your opinion voiced here likely reflects the ease with which some have access to the forms that best feed their needs, ignoring that others may not be so blessed. And I also think many people feel that a Mass in the EF from the Pope would go a long way to helping to change that, and thus make your sentiment above a truly universal one.

Patrick

 

[JReducation]

I basically agree with what you are saying, but don’t you think that there are problems with the particular applications in this instance? I appreciate that you think I should be able to choose any valid Mass, but what if I cannot? For example, there are no Latin Masses within 100 miles of me (or more). Consider this. What if tomorrow the Church decided that all Masses would be EF in Latin, except for one every three weeks in a small church in one city for each Diocese? Would you still say the same thing? What about everyone else? Would all Masses be equal to everybody then? Would we all still rather hope that we could go where we would “choose” and not debate about it? Honestly, I really do doubt it.

I hope you don’t misunderstand me, as I do agree with you about the merits of any valid Mass, regardless of language or form. But then, if language and form had no bearing, there would have never been any reform in the first place. I think that your opinion voiced here likely reflects the ease with which some have access to the forms that best feed their needs, ignoring that others may not be so blessed. And I also think many people feel that a Mass in the EF from the Pope would go a long way to helping to change that, and thus make your sentiment above a truly universal one.

Patrick

Personally, I don’t have this issue. Tonight was a good example. I can’t go to mass tomorrow, because I have to work. I missed the evening mass at my parish. I was driving around doing other chores and saw people pulling into the parking lot of a Catholic Church. I asked if there was a mass and a gentleman told me that it would begin in two minutes. I pulled in right away.

I was dressed in shorts, flip-flops and a t-shirt. I was doing Saturday chores. I went in and the mass was in French. I don’t speak French very well. I had to listen very attentively. The music was Andean music and the songs were foreign to me. But I decided that I was at mass and that all that mattered was that I was there.

As mass proceeded, I observed the love and the reverence of the priest and laity. I understood very little of the words in the homily, couldn’t pray the words with the congregation, except to whisper them in English and the music was not what I am used to.

At the end of the mass, I felt a great sense of reverence and holiness, because I had been with my beloved. That’s all that mattered.

I should add that I needed to go to confession. I asked the priest if he spoke English. He didn’t. I had to go to confession in my broken French. He tried to give me some spiritual counsel and I got 1 out of 3 words he was saying. I got the jist of it, but there was an internal joy of encountering the Lord Jesus in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, that the struggle with the form and the language was not an issue at all. I can’t even remember anything that may have bothered me.

It was all beautiful and calming. I was overjoyed at how the grace of God had worked in my life to help me find a mass and confession when I had given up, because I thought I had missed the opportunity.

To me, this is grace and this is all that matters. The rest is straw.

JR