Will human technology ever be able to defend against demonic power?

  • Thread starter Thread starter someperson555
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
someperson555 said:
dude… im going to tell you what i told birdpreacher, it is very real wether you choose to believe it or not. as i said just be thankful that you have not met a demon yet. i have had the misfortune of experiencing demonic obsession. as i said, i never got physically attacked (by the grace of God) but i have experienced emotions/ feelings which were just not human. you wouldnt believe it unless it happened to you. it really is indescribable. but the main thing that sets demonic obsession apart from regular mental illness is that you know that its an evil spirit, you feel it’s presence.
and there is documented scientific evidence for this, many other people have come forward with the same symptoms who have never met eachother. therefore isolated incidents. i used to think like you too, but now i know i was wrong. there are countless cases where psychiatrists give the patient medication but it doesnt help (in most cases makes them worse) on the OCD forums every other post is about “well my meds werent working so my doc decided to up the dosage, etc”. so theres no concrete proof that medications work either.
Click to expand...
Why does it only happen to certain individuals?
 
someperson555 said:
well first of all, i dont think that wanting to invent certain technoplogies which would enable humans to defend themselves against demons is “prideful”, after all, we have a right to defend our bodies and minds against evil. for example if you were to defend yourself against a thief, that would not be prideful. we have no obligation to tolerate demonic harrasement anymore than we have an obligation to tolerate harrasement from another man.
but do we know for sure that material things can not help us in anyway? because my point is this:
thomas aquinas says that the way demons (and other spirits) move matter is by indirect means, this means that even the demons have a modus operandi of moving physical matter. so doesnt this mean that if we would know how they do it, we could invent things to hinder them? for example, one thing i was pondering, would demons be able to move matter in a vacuum? if we would know the limitations on their powers, it would be helpful.
Click to expand...
My response would be that Our Lord has already taught us the means for combatting the influence of evil, which is spiritual warfare. The means we are taught is prayer, holiness, fasting and, of course, exorcism. Exorcism alone sometimes will not be sufficient unless it is performed by legitimately holy exorcists.

Notice that the idea of using technology to combat the devil is very much a secondary or alternative method to that method and means described above, which was institued by Our Lord Himself. Exactly so, I expect the alternative to always be prideful and certainly vain, especially because it is man developing his own means to combat the devil, which savours of making a saviour of and for himself, independent of Christ. Hence it is proud folly. Liberation from the dominion of the devil is the quintessential Triumph of Our Lord. By it He became King by right of conquest (He conquered death and vanquished, i.e. defeated, the devil). If man were to develop his own means of liberating himself from the devil’s dominion (which is impossible anyways because the devil is spirit and much more intelligent than man) than he is essentially deifying himself.
 
InTheClouds said:
Demonic power is not real. There is no such thing as possession or poltergeists or any of that stuff. There is not one shred of documented scientific evidence of any of that.
Click to expand...
Not so on every count.

Demonic possession is, ironically, the most demonstrable spiritual reality we have. I say ironic because it is exactly belief in the devil specifically, but spiritual things in general, that has fallen away.

The question will be asked: Why? Why does it appear in history that almost immediately after the conversion of the Roman Empire until up to recent times does demonic possession seem so rare? The answer is that in Christendom it is true that demonic possession was quite rare; and to be honest, those who were possessed were often so quite willingly and deliberately. I would also assume that, outside of those situations, it would have been kept absolutely quiet since there would be risk that the local population would assume the family cursed or practitioners of withcraft, whereas any kind of habitual sin or sinful living can attract demonic attention. Notwithstanding, this phenomenon was unique to Christendom: elsewhere demonic possession was thought a fact of life and frequently confused with being a medium to the gods, such as an oracle. Shamans and witch-doctors were prolific, and the practice of magic or the use of spells and incantations was popular. Demonism is a very democratic religion and likes everyone to participate.

The modern problem is the resurgence of demonic possession in the Western world and our complete ignorance of it. Our institutions feel compelled to label and categorize it but are completely incapable of actually treating it. One person seems to be cured whilst another gets worse though the conditions are the same. Exactly because this is not a medical phenomenon it results in wreaking havoc for the sciences as spiritual realities become mixed into empirical reality. The consequence is the destruction and perversion of science. The problem now is not of confusing mental disorders with demonic possession but vice-versa.

The devil has serious character flaws. Much like the psychopath who cannot help but return to the scene of his crime, the devil cannot help but make himself known, even if it endangers him (like the criminal returning to the scene of the crime). That evil has this characteristic fault (and many others) is known both by human experience (e.g. law enforcement) and also by sacred science that deals with the topic of evil, whether human or spiritual.
 
I must also add that demonic obsession can occur without any fault of the victim. Righteous Job was assailed in every way imaginable by the devil though he had committed no sin. Nonetheless, one can only become actually possessed by some submission or acquiescence of the will.
 
InTheClouds said:
Demonic power is not real. There is no such thing as possession or poltergeists or any of that stuff. There is not one shred of documented scientific evidence of any of that.
Click to expand...
From whence is the source of these statements? Is it you?

No matter how one tries to deny reality, does not mean that reality does not exist. Go ahead and say whatever you wish, but demons are real. 😃

God Bless.
Anathama Sit
 
InTheClouds said:
Why does it only happen to certain individuals?
Click to expand...
It happenes becuase of the Permissive Will of God. This also has to do with the mystery of suffering.

Sometimes mortal sin can open the gate for demonic possession, oppression, and obsession.
 
Greetings 1AugustSon7,

I am writing this becuase of your last statement in your last post. [Sorry for the quote feature not being able to work.]

I have to respectfully disagree with that statement. As there have been cases where children who are not even at the “supposed” Age of accountablitlity have become possessed through no fault of their own. You cannot convince me that they willfully submitted to the possession. Also there are also innocent victims who were not in mortal sin or did anything to warrant the possession, who did get possessed.
God Bless.
Anathama Sit*
 
Anathama_Sit said:
Greetings 1AugustSon7,

I am writing this becuase of your last statement in your last post. [Sorry for the quote feature not being able to work.]

I have to respectfully disagree with that statement. As there have been cases where children who are not even at the “supposed” Age of accountablitlity have become possessed through no fault of their own. You cannot convince me that they willfully submitted to the possession. Also there are also innocent victims who were not in mortal sin or did anything to warrant the possession, who did get possessed.
God Bless.
Anathama Sit*

by the way anathama, I saw your posts. and its okay, i understand. i still do have a couple of questions, but perhaps at another time when your computer is working more efficiently.
either way thanks for taking the time to reply. God bless.
Click to expand...
 
Greetings Someperson555,

The reponses are ready, for some reason it will not let me copy and paste into this window, nor will it let me quote every now and then. But be assured I will answer you.

Thank you so much for your patience.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit
 
1AugustSon7 said:
My response would be that Our Lord has already taught us the means for combatting the influence of evil, which is spiritual warfare. The means we are taught is prayer, holiness, fasting and, of course, exorcism. Exorcism alone sometimes will not be sufficient unless it is performed by legitimately holy exorcists.

Notice that the idea of using technology to combat the devil is very much a secondary or alternative method to that method and means described above, which was institued by Our Lord Himself. Exactly so, I expect the alternative to always be prideful and certainly vain, especially because it is man developing his own means to combat the devil, which savours of making a saviour of and for himself, independent of Christ. Hence it is proud folly. Liberation from the dominion of the devil is the quintessential Triumph of Our Lord. By it He became King by right of conquest (He conquered death and vanquished, i.e. defeated, the devil). If man were to develop his own means of liberating himself from the devil’s dominion (which is impossible anyways because the devil is spirit and much more intelligent than man) than he is essentially deifying himself.
Click to expand...
i wasnt really talking about temptation or sin, since that is purely a matter of spiritual attack on the spirit, and the line between brain and spirit blurs.
i was mainly talking physical attacks. i think IF we would have the means, it would not be prideful at all to defend ourselves, i mean, we invent medicines to combat disease. as for the possibility/ impossibility of defending against demonic attacks with technology, we cant really say that its either one (impossible or possible). we would need to find out the way spirits can manipulate matter to even get an idea of what our capabilities are against them.
 
Anathama_Sit said:
Greetings 1AugustSon7,

I am writing this becuase of your last statement in your last post. [Sorry for the quote feature not being able to work.]

I have to respectfully disagree with that statement. As there have been cases where children who are not even at the “supposed” Age of accountablitlity have become possessed through no fault of their own. You cannot convince me that they willfully submitted to the possession. Also there are also innocent victims who were not in mortal sin or did anything to warrant the possession, who did get possessed.
God Bless.
Anathama Sit*

Your objection, Madam, is well grounded.

However, it forgets a certain reality that even little children are subject to. Children can be allured by fascination or temptation or even an illicit desire to know. Horribly, they can even be (though the thought pains us) made to submit in the usual, sadistic way that can be employed even on adults. The devil can and sometimes does harass his victims into submission. The condescension of the will to be free from pain or duress or torture can and does suffice to effect possession; thankfully, however, we have recourse to Holy Mother Church whose appointed ministers are able to release those souls from their bondage.

I must, however, insist that possession cannot be effected without some condescension of the will, which itself would suffice. For example, a man in the state-of-grace who condescends to make a pact with the devil. Such a man, though he was sin free would, nonetheless, attract demonic attention and, possibly (if God thought it fit for punishment) become possessed; in fact, we might imagine such a blessed so betraying his Baptismal vows as quite likely to become possessed exactly because God has been so gracious to him as to lead him into a life of grace, and the devil’s hatred and envy of such blessed persons attracting his malice and perversion.
Click to expand...
 
someperson555 said:
i wasnt really talking about temptation or sin, since that is purely a matter of spiritual attack on the spirit, and the line between brain and spirit blurs.
i was mainly talking physical attacks. i think IF we would have the means, it would not be prideful at all to defend ourselves, i mean, we invent medicines to combat disease. as for the possibility/ impossibility of defending against demonic attacks with technology, we cant really say that its either one (impossible or possible). we would need to find out the way spirits can manipulate matter to even get an idea of what our capabilities are against them.
Click to expand...
The problem is that there is no physical object, of itself, that could block a malicious spirit. It is a game or combat chiefly of wills. Your best bet would be some blessed object if you’re trying to frustrate or dissuade a devil. This, of course, is not a technological improvement but a spiritual effect.

Spirits manipulate matter through their simple wills. They have no corporeal means to employ of themselves; they have no bodies. That’s half the problem, so to speak: we, being corporeal, think in terms of size, weight, etc.; however, the spirits know of no such limitation in the restricting sense. They are conscious of its existence and its influence or restriction upon us; however, it is of no consequence to them. The objective of a malicious spirit is to gain control of or at least influence your will (e.g. to get you to abandon some help or protection, such as a conviction or belief). Everything else is secondary.
 
Anathama_Sit said:
From whence is the source of these statements? Is it you?

No matter how one tries to deny reality, does not mean that reality does not exist. Go ahead and say whatever you wish, but demons are real. 😃

God Bless.
Anathama Sit
Click to expand...
Do you have any evidence that it is real? I mean actual documented cases? aka proof?
 
InTheClouds said:
Do you have any evidence that it is real? I mean actual documented cases? aka proof?
Click to expand...
The proof is all around you. Short of your living in a farm-house in the midst of nowhere, you can be sure there are demoniacs around. Now I don’t want you to go looking for trouble, per se, because if you do you will find it and you will wish you hadn’t. Now what is it you want? Audio recordings? They’re aweful and frequently disgusting. Human words fail to describe it, because it’s not human. The absolute hatred that the devil has for the human race simply defies description. It’s quite literally an inhuman hatred.

The point is this: most people don’t believe it until they actually see it, and the rest are content to accept it on faith. There is no inbetween. You either know it’s a fact or you accept on faith that it is. That alone should tell you the nature of the phenomenon. People who experience it are changed because it is a traumatic, often harrowing, experience. It is so far beyond their ability to compute, so to speak, that they are like a deer in headlights. They suppress it and don’t know what to make of it, anymore than you would know what to do if suddenly you were waking up in the night and a cat with a human head was laying at the end of your bed smiling at you without flinching. What do you do? Tell someone? Who? They’ll say your crazy and put you on drugs, even though you don’t feel sick and are perfectly conscious of the fact that your ability to discern what’s real from what’s not is operating perfectly fine. Demonic obsession is an imposition on you. It comes out of nowhere and makes itself a presence - an unwelcome presence - in your life. It follows you around. It literally haunts you. Increasingly you become afraid or concerned that your new “friend” or “passenger” might bother you in public or in a very compromising situation. And so it begins.

It’s an extremely serious thing, InTheClouds. And you seem to expect us to treat it like trivia or indulge your doubt. Your doubt is, quite frankly, your problem.
 
1AugustSon7 said:
The proof is all around you. Short of your living in a farm-house in the midst of nowhere, you can be sure there are demoniacs around. Now I don’t want you to go looking for trouble, per se, because if you do you will find it and you will wish you hadn’t. Now what is it you want? Audio recordings? They’re aweful and frequently disgusting. Human words fail to describe it, because it’s not human. The absolute hatred that the devil has for the human race simply defies description. It’s quite literally an inhuman hatred.

The point is this: most people don’t believe it until they actually see it, and the rest are content to accept it on faith. There is no inbetween. You either know it’s a fact or you accept on faith that it is. That alone should tell you the nature of the phenomenon. People who experience it are changed because it is a traumatic, often harrowing, experience. It is so far beyond their ability to compute, so to speak, that they are like a deer in headlights. They suppress it and don’t know what to make of it, anymore than you would know what to do if suddenly you were waking up in the night and a cat with a human head was laying at the end of your bed smiling at you without flinching. What do you do? Tell someone? Who? They’ll say your crazy and put you on drugs, even though you don’t feel sick and are perfectly conscious of the fact that your ability to discern what’s real from what’s not is operating perfectly fine. Demonic obsession is an imposition on you. It comes out of nowhere and makes itself a presence - an unwelcome presence - in your life. It follows you around. It literally haunts you. Increasingly you become afraid or concerned that your new “friend” or “passenger” might bother you in public or in a very compromising situation. And so it begins.

It’s an extremely serious thing, InTheClouds. And you seem to expect us to treat it like trivia or indulge your doubt. Your doubt is, quite frankly, your problem.
Click to expand...
I don’t have a problem for not believing. Why would I believe it? I have never seen evidence or proof for it. You say there is some, so present it. Since you didn’t, I am going to assume there is none.
 
1AugustSon7 said:
The proof is all around you. Short of your living in a farm-house in the midst of nowhere, you can be sure there are demoniacs around. Now I don’t want you to go looking for trouble, per se, because if you do you will find it and you will wish you hadn’t. Now what is it you want? Audio recordings? They’re aweful and frequently disgusting. Human words fail to describe it, because it’s not human. The absolute hatred that the devil has for the human race simply defies description. It’s quite literally an inhuman hatred.

The point is this: most people don’t believe it until they actually see it, and the rest are content to accept it on faith. There is no inbetween. You either know it’s a fact or you accept on faith that it is. That alone should tell you the nature of the phenomenon. People who experience it are changed because it is a traumatic, often harrowing, experience. It is so far beyond their ability to compute, so to speak, that they are like a deer in headlights. They suppress it and don’t know what to make of it, anymore than you would know what to do if suddenly you were waking up in the night and a cat with a human head was laying at the end of your bed smiling at you without flinching. What do you do? Tell someone? Who? They’ll say your crazy and put you on drugs, even though you don’t feel sick and are perfectly conscious of the fact that your ability to discern what’s real from what’s not is operating perfectly fine. Demonic obsession is an imposition on you. It comes out of nowhere and makes itself a presence - an unwelcome presence - in your life. It follows you around. It literally haunts you. Increasingly you become afraid or concerned that your new “friend” or “passenger” might bother you in public or in a very compromising situation. And so it begins.

It’s an extremely serious thing, InTheClouds. And you seem to expect us to treat it like trivia or indulge your doubt. Your doubt is, quite frankly, your problem.
Click to expand...
well, no sleep for me tonight lol.
 
InTheClouds said:
I don’t have a problem for not believing. Why would I believe it? I have never seen evidence or proof for it. You say there is some, so present it. Since you didn’t, I am going to assume there is none.
Click to expand...
we gave you plenty of evidence. the problem here is that youre an atheist thus your premise is flawed to begin with. trying to convince an atheist that demonic posession is real is like trying to convince an african wicth doctor that fevers cannot be cured by dancing around a fire.
the other thing is that these experiences with spirits are first person experiences, therefore the diagnoses relies on the victim’s testimonies. but if thats not enough for you then how do you believe in mental illnesses like OCD or depression? or personality disorders? as none of these illnesses can be observed from the third person, not to mention there is not even a connection to a bodily cause. (and no, anxiety is not caused by a chemical imbalance, its more likely the other way around). scientists still dont know if depression or anxiety are purely “in the brain”. so come on then, show me “evidence” for OCD or depression or histrionic personality disorder.
 
Greetings 1AugustSon7,

Thank you for your explanation. I understand why you must insist as you do, and I must insist as I do. However, at least we do believe in demonic possession. Thank you for explaining your point of view in a charitable manner. You have my total respect.

God Bless You.
Anathama Sit
 
Greetings InTheClouds,

Yes I do. However these case files are kept private by the Catholic Church and I keep them private as well. Do my expereiences of working with exorcists count as naught with you becuase they are not documented in a way that they are publicaly availalbe?

God Bless.
Anathama Sit
 
Greetings Intheclouds,

Where does faith come in the picture for you InTheClouds? I know that you have faith becuase I have seen you post elsewhere that speaks of obeying God’s law and God Himself.

I wish that I could present some of the things that I have to you, but to do so would be to betray the confidence that the Church has graciously allowed me to work with several cases and exorcists. All I can say it is very real, and at times I feel very much changed because of these encounters with the denomic.

I can say because of the encounters, I am getting less attached to the world and thining more and more of the life that is to come, namely eternity. My faith in God is getting stronger. Something is changing me, these encounters are changing me.

I have nothing to offer as proof in good conscience except my own testimony. I also sumbit to you what has been made public by the Church or those who are exorcists.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top