Will I go to Hell?

[Kawaii957]

I was raised Baptist, converted to Catholicism 6 years ago, and am now on the verge of leaving the church, largely because of the teaching regarding Mary. My question: according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, am I turning towards the path for Hell? (Oh, and please spare me the “Don’t leave!” or “Only God can judge” comments)

 

[VociMike]

I was raised Baptist, converted to Catholicism 6 years ago, and am now on the verge of leaving the church, largely because of the teaching regarding Mary. My question: according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, am I turning towards the path for Hell? (Oh, and please spare me the “Don’t leave!” or “Only God can judge” comments)

So you’re demanding that we judge your eternal fate?

What you are doing is elevating your own human understanding above that of the Church, of which Christ is the head and the Holy Spirit the guide and protector. What you are doing is allowing yourself to be influenced by traditions of men. What you are doing is being proud.

 

[chaunceygardner]

I was raised Baptist, converted to Catholicism 6 years ago, and am now on the verge of leaving the church, largely because of the teaching regarding Mary. My question: according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, am I turning towards the path for Hell? (Oh, and please spare me the “Don’t leave!” or “Only God can judge” comments)

I don’t know what the Church would say, but I would say, “Not necessarily”. Depends on how you handle your relationship with God in the future and how you live the rest of your life.

Good luck. I am fairly certain I understand your reasons.

 

[Jacafamala]

Why? Didn’t you understand the the Marian doctrines before you entered the Church six years ago?

If you know in your heart that the Holy Catholic Church is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and you leave her because you don’t like some of her teachings for some reason, and you die unrepentant of this, then yes you certainly will go to hell.

But no one here can really know for sure this will be the case. Your life isn’t finished yet. In addition, only God knows your motivations.

 

[JRKH]

I was raised Baptist, converted to Catholicism 6 years ago, and am now on the verge of leaving the church, largely because of the teaching regarding Mary. My question: according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, am I turning towards the path for Hell? (Oh, and please spare me the “Don’t leave!” or “Only God can judge” comments)

As to whether you will go to hell, Can’t say for sure, but you won’t be helping your case by leaving the Church.

May I ask two Questions?

1. What Attracted you to the Church 6 years ago?
2. What teaching on Mary has changed since you accepted them six years ago by becoming Catholic?

I know of no new Marian dogmas promulgated in the last six years, so what’s the beef?

Peace
James

 

[Hildita]

I don’t think anyone here on earth can tell you whether or not you are going to Hell. That being said I find it odd that the Marian doctrine is what is causing you to leave the Church. Mary’s role —being that she is the mother of Jesus, deserves to be honored and respected as you yourself expect that same for your mother. The role of Mary is another beautiful picture of the Church that takes all of it in and not in peace meal. The bottom line, life here on earth helps you to grow in faith and learn everyday until we are called to meet our maker. You may have to just really be honest with yourself and not use Mary as your excuse for your exodus. May God in his infinite wisdom illuminate you.

 

[kristanl]

I think theres many people who will say, you came to the whole and true truth, and now are leaving the whole and true truth. But know one can know for sure what will happen to your soul, it is in God’s hands. You are a believer, a repentant, etc. So in God’s eyes that is great.

Where are you planning on leaving to go? As you may know the Eucharist in the Catholic and Orthodox churchs (I think) are the only ones where Jesus is truly present. I hope you are not planning on leaving this Gift that the Holy Spirit has guided you to.

Also, other people have asked what Marian dogmas you dont believe in, so I’m going to ask if you pray the Rosary, or ask her to intercede for you? Have you ever felt a connection with her or was this something you would hope would come once you became Catholic?

 

[Pilgrim365]

I recently came back to the Catholic Church after a year in a Baptist church. The Baptist church we attended was a very embracing and loving group. However, I would encourage you to consider what it is about the teachings about Mary that disturbs you. Is it the teaching of someone or the Church? I have done some looking into the subject myself. I now have the belief that Mary has a great significance, BUT that significance is different for everyone. To deny Mary’s significance would be wrong. To be chased out of the Church by any conversation or opinion about Mary would also be wrong. To find out what the Church really believes about Mary and to determine what YOU have in your heart for Mary, no matter how elevated or not, that may be is up to you. Everyone does not have the same saint that seems important in their life. It all depends on what God is doing in and with you at the time. This determines who and what is important to you. I would ask you not to through away your invitation to Catholic life. At least not until you have determined for yourself what and who means alot to you. Everyone has a slightly different elevation, relationship, or affinity for different aspects of God, Trinity, Mary, Saints, Church, etc. We all have to explore our own hearts.

 

[Kawaii957]

As to whether you will go to hell, Can’t say for sure, but you won’t be helping your case by leaving the Church.

May I ask two Questions?

1. What Attracted you to the Church 6 years ago?

Quite frankly, all the externals. From the first time I entered a Catholic church, saw the candles, statues, etc. I was hooked. I started reading about what the church believed and accepted it without question. Most of my information came from Catholic Answers.

1. What teaching on Mary has changed since you accepted them six years ago by becoming Catholic?

I know of no new Marian dogmas promulgated in the last six years, so what’s the beef?

Peace
James

It’s not so much anything new, but what is old. St. Maximilian Kolbe speaks too much about “winning souls for the Immaculata.” St. Alphonsus Liguori speaks of how Mary “Obtains for us the pardon of our sins.” This is not the Mary that Catholic Answers presented to me. This is not the Mary that I accepted.

What you are doing is elevating your own human understanding above that of the Church, of which Christ is the head and the Holy Spirit the guide and protector. What you are doing is allowing yourself to be influenced by traditions of men. What you are doing is being proud.

And you aren’t trusting in your own human understanding when you make a decision each day to trust what the church has to say? You aren’t trusting your own human understanding when you interpret the teachings of the church? You aren’t trusting your own human understanding when you say that the traditions of the Catholic church are the traditions of God and the other traditions those of men? Ultimately, we all have to trust our own human understanding.

 

[VociMike]

And you aren’t trusting in your own human understanding when you make a decision each day to trust what the church has to say? You aren’t trusting your own human understanding when you interpret the teachings of the church? You aren’t trusting your own human understanding when you say that the traditions of the Catholic church are the traditions of God and the other traditions those of men? Ultimately, we all have to trust our own human understanding.

I don’t think I know more about the Catholic/Christian faith than does the Church. I sit at her feet to learn and understand. But that doesn’t seem to be what you’re doing.

 

[Kawaii957]

I don’t think I know more about the Catholic/Christian faith than does the Church. I sit at her feet to learn and understand. But that doesn’t seem to be what you’re doing.

Not anymore.

 

[kotek]

Quite frankly, all the externals. From the first time I entered a Catholic church, saw the candles, statues, etc. I was hooked. I started reading about what the church believed and accepted it without question. Most of my information came from Catholic Answers.

If you will pardon the pun Catholic Answers doesn’t have all the answers. CA is a good source but not the only source. Hang in there, being a Catholic is MORE than what you see on CA or in this forum.

It’s not so much anything new, but what is old. St. Maximilian Kolbe speaks too much about “winning souls for the Immaculata.” St. Alphonsus Liguori speaks of how Mary “Obtains for us the pardon of our sins.” This is not the Mary that Catholic Answers presented to me. This is not the Mary that I accepted.

The only “Mary” a Catholic must accept is what official Catholic Dogma states, any thing beyond that is speculation and at times a Piety that goes overboard and beyond what the Church teaches. Maximilian Kolbe and Alphonsus Liguori are not official Catholic Dogma. One is free to not accept their theological speculations. All too often too many Catholics go against what the Church teaches with their overboard and over the top Marian piety.

 

[Kawaii957]

The only “Mary” a Catholic must accept is what official Catholic Dogma states, any thing beyond that is speculation and at times a Piety that goes overboard and beyond what the Church teaches. Maximilian Kolbe and Alphonsus Liguori are not official Catholic Dogma. One is free to not accept their theological speculations. All too often too many Catholics go against what the Church teaches with their overboard and over the top Marian piety.

Be realistic. The church has declared these men to be saints (which some say is an infallible declaration), and has raised St. Alphonsus Liguori to the status of doctor. The writings of Liguori are carefully reviewed for heresy. Is it really reasonable to conclude that he went “overboard” and the intellectuals of the church missed it when he said things like:

If my Redeemer rejects me on account of my sins, and drives me from his sacred feet, I will cast myself at those of his beloved Mother Mary, and there I will remain prostrate until she has obtained my forgiveness; for this Mother of Mercy knows not, and has never known, how to do otherwise than compassionate the miserable, and comply with the desires of the most destitute who fly to her for succor; and therefore, if not by duty, at least by compassion, she will engage her Son to pardon me"

*(Note, he is actually quoting from St. Bonaventure, another doctor of the church).

Would one REALLY be trusting the church to claim that two of her greatest teachers went “overboard.”

 

[Soler]

**

kotek:

The only “Mary” a Catholic must accept is what official Catholic Dogma states, any thing beyond that is speculation and at times a Piety that goes overboard and beyond what the Church teaches. Maximilian Kolbe and Alphonsus Liguori are not official Catholic Dogma. One is free to not accept their theological speculations. All too often too many Catholics go against what the Church teaches with their overboard and over the top Marian piety.

**

Quoted For Truth.

I suspect that there might be a perfectly rational explanation for the comments of these saints, but even if there isn’t, well, just because they are in heaven now doesn’t mean they were always right on earth. As far as I know, even St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas said one or two things that are nowadays generally rejected.

—Soler.

 

[Alindawyl]

While Jesus is fully God, he is also fully human. A human son will always honor his mother, something which has been strong in Judaism for millenia. It’s not just a custom. It’s one of the Ten Commandments.

Note that the commandment is to always honor your parents. It is not to always obey your parents. We don’t obey our parents if they ask us to do evil. Jesus would not obey Mary if she asked him to do evil. Not that she could do such a thing anyway, being free from sin on earth and of course free from sin in heaven. Anything the Blessed Mother asks of Jesus he will do out of devotion to her. Anything the Blessed Mother asks of Jesus is good because she is free from sin.

Mary is what she is because of Jesus rather than her own ability. She is creature while Jesus is Creator. He ascended while she was assumed. He did it of his own power. She was taken up by HIS power. That must never be forgotten, and the Church has always been clear on the matter.

Remember the wedding feast at Cana. Jesus told Mary that it was not yet his time, but because she asked it of him he performed a miracle anyway. The only command she gave was to the other people at the wedding, and was for them to do whatever Jesus told them. This is spelled out clearly in Scripture so can’t be ignored. Those who oppose the Marian dogmas don’t see this as showing Jesus is subservient to Mary. The Chuch doesn’t see that either. The Church teaches that this same intercessory effort on the part of Mary while on earth continues to take place in heaven.

Although it’s good to ask the Blessed Mother for her intercession because Jesus will do whatever she asks of him, the only way that makes sense is if she won’t automatically join her prayer to ours any more than God automatically answers yes to every prayer he receives. If God permits the saints to be able to hear all prayers asking for their intercession, then it’s logical to assume he also permits them to know the situation and intent of the person making the prayer. Otherwise, that would mean a situation could exist with someone making a request that was not good and a saint then making that same request of God. No, it’s only logical that God would grant the saints the ability to know when they should and should not add their own prayers to ours.

If a penitent does not have contrition in his heart, then he seeks the intercession of Mary in vain. She won’t pray to her son on behalf of such a request.

 

[Peter_Dawson]

I was raised Baptist, converted to Catholicism 6 years ago, and am now on the verge of leaving the church, largely because of the teaching regarding Mary. My question: according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, am I turning towards the path for Hell? (Oh, and please spare me the “Don’t leave!” or “Only God can judge” comments)

Talk to be about Mary, friend. I’m the best one in this website to talk to about Mary. Where do you have difficulties?

 

[kristanl]

Not anymore.

Well do you believe Mary was sinless, did not have children after Jesus, and was a virgin throughout her life?

Those are the dogmas the church teaches. Saints are named Saints mainly for their beliefs, and the ways they led their lives. Just like someone else said St. Augustene and St. Thomas Aquinas have said things people reject.

Therefore, you can assume that these saints are human like us,… Not every Catholic believes the same thing, even though we generally should- some people are closer to Mary and the Saints afterall.

 

[JRKH]

Quite frankly, all the externals. From the first time I entered a Catholic church, saw the candles, statues, etc. I was hooked. I started reading about what the church believed and accepted it without question. Most of my information came from Catholic Answers.

I’ll buy that, but when you chose to enter the Church, you didn’t do so soley because of the “externals” did you?

It’s not so much anything new, but what is old. St. Maximilian Kolbe speaks too much about “winning souls for the Immaculata.” St. Alphonsus Liguori speaks of how Mary “Obtains for us the pardon of our sins.” This is not the Mary that Catholic Answers presented to me. This is not the Mary that I accepted.

OK - But please be careful in how you read these things and compare what is basically personal devotions, even widespread ones, with what is actually dogmatically taught by the Church.
As I have said to any number of non-catholics here, there is absolutely nothing in Catholic teaching that requires one to have a personal devotion to Mary or any other saint. If such things make you uncomfortable, just know that you are perfectly free, within the Church, to pray only to Jesus and the Father.
So you see there is really no need for you to leave the Church over this. Simply accept those those dogmatic teachings of the Church, honor Mary as teh Mother of Our Lord, and worship in the way that is most comfortable for you.

I hope this helps a bit.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Be realistic. The church has declared these men to be saints (which some say is an infallible declaration), and has raised St. Alphonsus Liguori to the status of doctor. The writings of Liguori are carefully reviewed for heresy. Is it really reasonable to conclude that he went “overboard” and the intellectuals of the church missed it when he said things like:

If my Redeemer rejects me on account of my sins, and drives me from his sacred feet, I will cast myself at those of his beloved Mother Mary, and there I will remain prostrate until she has obtained my forgiveness; for this Mother of Mercy knows not, and has never known, how to do otherwise than compassionate the miserable, and comply with the desires of the most destitute who fly to her for succor; and therefore, if not by duty, at least by compassion, she will engage her Son to pardon me"

*(Note, he is actually quoting from St. Bonaventure, another doctor of the church).

Would one REALLY be trusting the church to claim that two of her greatest teachers went “overboard.”

If you had a great teacher or spiritual director, whom you Loved and admired above all others who have helped you, would that mean that absolutely EVERYTHING they said was withour Error?
This is how Saints should be viewed. Even the Doctors of the Church are not viewed as being completely without error.
Yes they are pious. Yes they have a great deal to offer. Yes they lived exemplary lives. And - Yes they can have errors in their writings.

I hope that you will also note that in the quote you posted, Ligouri did not say that YOU had to dos this, only that this is what He would do.

Peace
James

 

[Chrissy_O]

I hate it when people try to bring “Oh you’re going to Hell” into a subject that should be all about the optimistic. I don’t understand why people feel that threats of going to hell is going to convince anybody.