Will Islam fill the void left by the decline in believing Christians?

[Mount_Carmel]

Bob Crowley - Indeed, I don’t think England/UK, or indeed the rest of Europe could or would take Islam seriously. ‘We’ are currently too bound up with laissez faire ideas of personal and materialistic rights. I can’t see ‘we’ English giving up our beer, or the Germans giving up their pork sausages.

There are saints and prophetic acclamations predicting that England will once again become a suitable subject for ‘Our Lady’s Dowry’, and that it will lead Europe into a rebirth of Faith.

Some eight or so years back, after having had my confession heard, I was chatting with my Parish Priest, we he suddenly stopped mid sentence, looked up, and ask me to ‘bear with him a moment’. After a pause of a few seconds, he suddenly smiled and said that Our Lady had asked, through him, for me to pray for her ‘Dowry’. I replied that I would, but that I hope she also calls on a lot more prayers warriors, since her ‘Dowry’ is currently in a bit of a bad state.

Prayer for The Conversion of England

O Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, and our own most gentle Queen and Mother, look down in mercy upon England, thy Dowry, and upon us all who greatly hope and trust in thee. Through thee it was that Jesus our Saviour and our Hope was given unto the world; and he hath given thee to us that we might hope still more. Plead for us thy children, whom thou didst receive and accept at the foot of the Cross, O sorrowful Mother. Intercede for our separated English brethren, that they may be united with us in the one true Fold. Pray for us all, dear Mother, that by faith fruitful in good works, we may all deserve to see and praise God together with thee in our heavenly home. Amen.

catholicgadfly.blogspot.com/p/why-all-catholics-must-return-to.html

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Bob Crowley - Indeed, I don’t think England/UK, or indeed the rest of Europe could or would take Islam seriously. ‘We’ are currently too bound up with laissez faire ideas of personal and materialistic rights. I can’t see ‘we’ English giving up our beer, or the Germans giving up their pork sausages.

catholicgadfly.blogspot.com/p/why-all-catholics-must-return-to.html

Well, for a start the pastor’s prediction was that Britain would revert to her Catholic traditions, if you read my post again.

It was mainland Europe he mentioned, and he also said that the Europeans would not take it very seriously. It would be mainly a political decision, and I suspect it will have to do with an oil embargo.

You might have plenty of oil from the North Sea, but how much has Western Europe got?

I also note there are already quite a number of “no go” Moslem zones in French cities for example.

gatestoneinstitute.org/5128/france-no-go-zones

 

[Mount_Carmel]

Well, for a start the pastor’s prediction was that Britain would revert to her Catholic traditions, if you read my post again.

It was mainland Europe he mentioned, and he also said that the Europeans would not take it very seriously. It would be mainly a political decision, and I suspect it will have to do with an oil embargo.

You might have plenty of oil from the North Sea, but how much has Western Europe got?

I also note there are already quite a number of “no go” Moslem zones in French cities for example.

gatestoneinstitute.org/5128/france-no-go-zones

The UK hasn’t got that much oil and gas reserves now. Norway has got the best of the reserves, especially given its smaller population, and their natural richness in hydro-electric power.

ps. When I opened my last posting with ‘Indeed,’ I was agreeing with you, not challenging you.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

You might have plenty of oil from the North Sea, but how much has Western Europe got?

I note that according to the following Wikipedia, oil reserves in Britain, Norway and the European Union are 6900, 6900 and 6700 millions of barrels respectively.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_proven_oil_reserves

Saudi Arabia has 268,350 million barrels alone, although Venezuala appears to have even more. But Venezuala is a long way from Europe, and in an embargo, there’d be a lot of competition from China, the USA and India for oil, along with everybody else.

I’ll stick to the pastor’s prediction, mainly because I got to know just how accurate he was over a period of nine years in his church. I think I could honestly say I got to know him far more thoroughly than any priest I’ve met.

 

[Mount_Carmel]

I note that according to the following Wikipedia, oil reserves in Britain, Norway and the European Union are 6900, 6900 and 6700 millions of barrels respectively.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_proven_oil_reserves

Saudi Arabia has 268,350 million barrels alone, although Venezuala appears to have even more. But Venezuala is a long way from Europe, and in an embargo, there’d be a lot of competition from China, the USA and India for oil, along with everybody else.

I’ll stick to the pastor’s prediction, mainly because I got to know just how accurate he was over a period of nine years in his church. I think I could honestly say I got to know him far more thoroughly than any priest I’ve met.

I wonder if ‘oil’ and the greed and immorality that tends to spring from it is the ‘Harlot’ referred to as riding the dragon/serpent/beast in the ‘Babylon’ end times prediction?

 

[Reuben_J]

I am reminded of those statues of Our Blessed Lady, with the her feet crushing the Dragon/Serpent, and also the Crescent Moon - ‘coincidentally?’ the symbol of Islam.

I am reminded of the Qur’an itself expressing that ‘Allah’ is the greatest/best of deceivers. That the ‘Best/Greatest of Deceivers’ is also an accolade reserved by Christianity for Satan - my mind then flicks back to those depictions of Our Lady with the Dragon/Serpent and the Crescent Moon {symbol of the pagan Hubal, as well of Islam], under her feet. I am also reminded of Jesus’ promise that even in our darkest of hours He will not abandon ‘us’. I am additionally reminded that even when there is only a handful of ‘us’, that He too is present.

I also think on the many prophesies and descriptions of what may loosely be called ‘the end times’, and of what is going on even now, and feel a mixture of alarm for humanity, but also feel that Satan’s time is drawing to its climactic ending. I also feel that Satan himself knows that his time is coming towards a close.

Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host,
by the Divine Power of God,
cast into hell Satan and all the evil spirits
who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls.

That possibility can never be disregarded. We know that Satan works to nullify the redemption at the cross. If he can deceive as to deny the Lord’s death on the cross, he will do it. Islam, so alarmingly, exactly does this.

 

[Matthew_Light]

This is a beautiful exploration of Baha’u’llah’s Revelation Matthew

Thankyou

.

You are too kind

 

[hasantas]

telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2042169/Bishop-Michael-Nazir-Ali-Radical-Islam-is-filling-void-left-by-collapse-of-Christianity-in-UK.html

Point is that religion, like nature, abhors a vacuum. As Christianity recedes in the developed world–including the United States–will Islam take its place? One wonders if 100 years from now, Islam will be the dominant faith in the United States as well as Europe. Scary thought. :imsorry:

I think Europe does not need to be Islam. If Europeans hold their religion and faith exactly then there will not be any decline. We hope so. And we(Muslims) are waiting for Jesus to raise Christianity in its correct form. When that happen then Europe will be so close to Islam anyhow.

There is a prophecy about Islam that Islam will be predominant on the world.

Some people always see wrong exercizes of Islam and accuse all Islam/Muslims. But that is not fair. Islam has accurate moral values as Chritianity hold and Islam has strong effect and import in faith. Also Islam manage all stages of social groups(economical, political, social, etc)

 

[dronald]

I think Europe does not need to be Islam. If Europeans hold their religion and faith exactly then there will not be any decline. We hope so. And we(Muslims) are waiting for Jesus to raise Christianity in its correct form. When that happen then Europe will be so close to Islam anyhow.

There is a prophecy about Islam that Islam will be predominant on the world.

Some people always see wrong exercizes of Islam and accuse all Islam/Muslims. But that is not fair. Islam has accurate moral values as Chritianity hold and Islam has strong effect and import in faith. Also Islam manage all stages of social groups(economical, political, social, etc)

What do you think of the book of Revelation?

 

[StGerardMajella]

As Christianity recedes in the developed world–including the United States–will Islam take its place? One wonders if 100 years from now, Islam will be the dominant faith in the United States as well as Europe. Scary thought.

It’s all about the birth rate. In the West, among white Ango-Saxon Protestants and Catholics, the birth rate is much lower when compared to other faiths, such as Islam. If you have a low birth rate, it only takes a generation or two for your family line to be wiped out.

A couple generations back, it was not uncommon for families to have 10 kids or more, all working on the farm. Nowadays, most of the Westerners I know are lucky to have a couple kids, if that. It seems the more affluent and money-centric the individual, the less likely they are to have or want children, let alone a large family.

 

[arthra]

There is a prophecy that

The vast majority of people who profess to be Muslim will be so only in name despite their practice of Islamic rites and it will be they who make war with the Mahdi.

Here is a detailed account with source:

There will dawn a time when there will remain nothing but a trace from the Qur’an. And from Islam there will survive only a name. There will be people called Muslims, but they will be the farthest of all other people from Islam. They will have well built mosques; but these will be devoid of guidance

Bihar al-anwar, Vol. 52, p. 190.

 

[hasantas]

What do you think of the book of Revelation?

What should I think? What do you ask?

 

[dronald]

What should I think? What do you ask?

Because Islam says Jesus will return and “restore Christianity” as you say, but Revelation was written 600 years before and it speaks of someone coming and claiming to be the Christ.

 

[boar2roar]

I don’t think non muslims will convert in large numbers. What will most likely happen is that falling birthrates and the secularization of former catholic and Christian countries will leave them as the minority faith. Muslims on the other hand have large families and are less vulnerable to secularism. If you are talking about Europe I already see it as a competition between the secular humanist majority (in my view the true dominant religion in western Europe) Europe and the smaller but growing religious minority (muslims).

 

[Matthew_Light]

Because Islam says Jesus will return and “restore Christianity” as you say, but Revelation was written 600 years before and it speaks of someone coming and claiming to be the Christ.

That’s interesting, can you tell me chapter and verse?

Thx!

 

[RosslynV]

Another thing is that Islam isn’t just an alternative to Christianity. It is also an alternative to quasi-religions like Marxism, nationalism or secular humanism. These have been filling the Christian vacuum practically since the reformation.

Haven’t you read the Catechism. Alert-- we worship the same God

 

[gmcbroom]

lol, here we go. The catechesism says we acknowledge that they say they worship the Same God as us.

It may or may not be true. Personally, with all the nuances of languages and doctrines it may be true, but if so they worship radically different than we do. So, I just try to love God or Father and our neighbor.

 

[hasantas]

Because Islam says Jesus will return and “restore Christianity” as you say, but Revelation was written 600 years before and it speaks of someone coming and claiming to be the Christ.

I do not understand what you mean but the true religion is that: Believing and worshiping in one God and God revealed Himself through prophets. If you mean that Quran had took from Revelation? That is not possible. Muhammed had never read any thing and He cannot learn everything by hearing because nobody had known such knowledges whom were close to him. Muhammed had got more knowledges than a pastor and priest. That shows Muhammed was taught by Allah.

Anyway.There is a message in Revelation that Jesus will come back. Quran mean Jesus wil come and Hadidths inform that Jesus will come back. There is a fact that Jesus will come back. Islamic scholars explain about details of that return.

• Everybody will not know Jesus openly but everybody(people of book, scripture) will believe in Him.
• Muhammed (an other prophet ) came after Jesus so Jesus will not negate Islam but He will restore His religion and in that form Christianity will be same with Islam in main points.
  -That will occur very close to the end of the world.

Also we can interpret return of Jesus in that way:

1. Every soul will taste death. Then to Us will you be returned. Ankabut(29)

According to that verse every human will die. Jesus was raised with His body so He did not die. He will come back and will die as other humans do.

 

[DrJonE]

I never think the press is the best place from which to get an objective view. I don’t know if the bishop has said what they write and in the manner they write. It could be the result of editorial changes. The press like nothing better than making things sound worse than they are.

The reality is rather more complex than this article would have you believe. I have the opportunity in my profession to work with a large number of young people whose ethnic heritage is from the Indian sub-continent. These young people are trapped between two worlds. At school, college, university and in many aspects of their lives outwith the home they face the same pressures as all young people in the West. At home they are exposed to completely different values and those differences shouldn’t be undervalued. For this group of young people adolescence is far more challenging. It results in some, and even without data I’m confident to say, but only a minority, being radicalised by extreme forms of Islam.

I don’t see a society in which almost everyone has sunken in the mire of the cesspool. It is the often made claim of clerics that without religion that society breaks down. That is more about recruitment than reality. It is both nonsense and completely offensive to claim that one cannot be a good, decent, moral person without the guidance of a religious body. If I was to look for moral guidance I would most certainly not look to any religious body for that.

I think the Christian denominations in the West are in panic mode because the number of their adherents are declining. However, the section of society that would most likely have gone to a Christian place of worship on a Sunday are not the same members of society who would join Islam. Islam might become the largest religion by simple numbers of people who go to midday prayers on a Friday. The Christians are running scared that they will no longer top the league tables. However, the people who realise that religion has nothing to offer aren’t leaving Christianity for another religion. People aren’t flocking from the churches to the mosques. What is going to happen is that secularists will be in the majority.

A secular majority doesn’t mean that we all have the sexual mores of an alley cat, that we all resort to drugs to solve the problems in our daily lives, it doesn’t mean that we all drown our sorrows in alcohol. It is possible to live a moral life without religion. I most strongly object to the invidious suggestion that we cannot.

 

[hasantas]

I never think the press is the best place from which to get an objective view. I don’t know if the bishop has said what they write and in the manner they write. It could be the result of editorial changes. The press like nothing better than making things sound worse than they are.

The reality is rather more complex than this article would have you believe. I have the opportunity in my profession to work with a large number of young people whose ethnic heritage is from the Indian sub-continent. These young people are trapped between two worlds. At school, college, university and in many aspects of their lives outwith the home they face the same pressures as all young people in the West. At home they are exposed to completely different values and those differences shouldn’t be undervalued. For this group of young people adolescence is far more challenging. It results in some, and even without data I’m confident to say, but only a minority, being radicalised by extreme forms of Islam.

I don’t see a society in which almost everyone has sunken in the mire of the cesspool. It is the often made claim of clerics that without religion that society breaks down. That is more about recruitment than reality. It is both nonsense and completely offensive to claim that one cannot be a good, decent, moral person without the guidance of a religious body. If I was to look for moral guidance I would most certainly not look to any religious body for that.

I think the Christian denominations in the West are in panic mode because the number of their adherents are declining. However, the section of society that would most likely have gone to a Christian place of worship on a Sunday are not the same members of society who would join Islam. Islam might become the largest religion by simple numbers of people who go to midday prayers on a Friday. The Christians are running scared that they will no longer top the league tables. However, the people who realise that religion has nothing to offer aren’t leaving Christianity for another religion. People aren’t flocking from the churches to the mosques. What is going to happen is that secularists will be in the majority.

A secular majority doesn’t mean that we all have the sexual mores of an alley cat, that we all resort to drugs to solve the problems in our daily lives, it doesn’t mean that we all drown our sorrows in alcohol. It is possible to live a moral life without religion. I most strongly object to the invidious suggestion that we cannot.

The issue is not develop society with religion but that is a fact if people are to be more religious then they hold more moral values. Religion is not only for worldly life but religion is about to gain an infinite life in Heavens. All orders of religion are to provide that. If you reduce religion’s laws to simple states of world then you can see many useless.

A secularize society may seem good but a religious society can hold the good values of secularizm and much more in moral. Humanbeing is not only biological but also human have spiritual and moral values. Religion can manage biological part of human more well than any other system and in moral values nothing can fulfil work of religion.