Will it be Eurabia?

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cestusdei

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At dinner we were discussing the current Islamic crusade on the cartoons. They are killing dozens of people and demanding censorship. One guy is Scottish and lives in Paris. It was asked, “I wonder what is going to happen?” I in my usual restrained fashion said, “eventually there will be civil war and mass deportations…either of the Christians or the Muslims.” He looked surprised and then simply nodded. He knew that was the likely end to all of this.

Look how the Muslims act on the boards. Do you think living as dhimmi under their rule would be fun? There is little difference between jihad and crusade. I think we need to start to make clear stands. Just say “no”. No to their hypocrisy, lies, violence, hatred, bigotry, and intolerance. If they don’t like it let’s kick them out. I don’t care if they were born in the West or not. Strip them of citizenship and heave them out the door. We are nursing a viper to our breast. They seem to have no desire to integrate. So they can get out. One day the Europeans may wake up and find that it’s time to either say praise Allah or Deus Vult.
 
Just say “no”. No to their hypocrisy, lies, violence, hatred, bigotry, and intolerance. If they don’t like it let’s kick them out.
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Can you please list some examples of “muslim lies” in the west?

As for hypocrisy, paper after paper in Europe published the offensive cartoons to show support for the principle of free speech.

I read in the paper today that a holocaust denier was sentenced to three years in prison in Austria for giving a speech denying the holocaust.

Do you think that’s hypocrisy? Do you see how many muslims in the west might feel unfairly discriminated against?
Strip them of citizenship and heave them out the door. We are nursing a viper to our breast. They seem to have no desire to integrate. So they can get out. One day the Europeans may wake up and find that it’s time to either say praise Allah or Deus Vult
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People said the same thing about Irish Catholics in America. The same venom was spewed over John Kennedy…“The Pope will rule america!!!”

This is hate propaganda, pure and simple. The fact that its object is an unpopular group (in the west) and that there are some radicals who claim to follow the same faith doesn’t make it any less hate propaganda. If you don’t believe me, see what happens below when I switch out the word “jew” for the word “muslim” in your post:
At dinner we were discussing the current Jewish crusade on the cartoons. They are killing dozens of people and demanding censorship. One guy is Scottish and lives in Paris. It was asked, “I wonder what is going to happen?” I in my usual restrained fashion said, “eventually there will be civil war and mass deportations…either of the Christians or the Jews.” He looked surprised and then simply nodded. He knew that was the likely end to all of this.
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Look how the Jews act on the boards. Do you think living as goyim under their rule would be fun? There is little difference between zionism and crusade. I think we need to start to make clear stands. Just say “no”. No to their hypocrisy, lies, violence, hatred, bigotry, and intolerance. If they don’t like it let’s kick them out. I don’t care if they were born in the West or not. Strip them of citizenship and heave them out the door. We are nursing a viper to our breast. They seem to have no desire to integrate. So they can get out. One day the Europeans may wake up and find that it’s time to either say praise Yahweh or Deus Vult.
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Congratulations. You just revived the anti-semitic propaganda formula that has plagued Europe for thousands of years, that was stopped in the most costly and horrific war the world has ever seen, and you were able to do it only because you chose a different religious faith to attack this time.

Maybe your next idea will be to create special muslim neighborhoods, and make muslims wear little yellow crescents on their arms, so that when the time comes to “deport” them we’ll know who they are.
 
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pro_universal:
Can you please list some examples of “muslim lies” in the west?

As for hypocrisy, paper after paper in Europe published the offensive cartoons to show support for the principle of free speech.

I read in the paper today that a holocaust denier was sentenced to three years in prison in Austria for giving a speech denying the holocaust.

Do you think that’s hypocrisy? Do you see how many muslims in the west might feel unfairly discriminated against?

People said the same thing about Irish Catholics in America. The same venom was spewed over John Kennedy…“The Pope will rule america!!!”

This is hate propaganda, pure and simple. The fact that its object is an unpopular group (in the west) and that there are some radicals who claim to follow the same faith doesn’t make it any less hate propaganda. If you don’t believe me, see what happens below when I switch out the word “jew” for the word “muslim” in your post:

Congratulations. You just revived the anti-semitic propaganda formula that has plagued Europe for thousands of years, that was stopped in the most costly and horrific war the world has ever seen, and you were able to do it only because you chose a different religious faith to attack this time.
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SOME of them printed them and what happened? Riots and deaths. My local paper printed a vile anti-Catholic cartoon. The result? A letter to the editor. Get a little perspective. Muslims live much better here then in their own lands. But if they feel discriminated against they can always return from whence they came. Oddly you don’t see them doing that do you?

Did the Irish commit terrorist acts during the 1960 election? No, they had shown for over 100 years that they were loyal Americans who fought to defend our nation. They loved America and supported her. I don’t see that from Muslims in Europe or the US. I am half Irish btw.

What is “hateful” is Muslims justifying terrorism against our country or killing innocent Christians because they don’t like a cartoon! The most anti-Semitic violence today is perpetrated by Muslims not Christians. See www.memri.org.
 
Was it not a muslim that planted that cartoon in the first place? I am beginning to see your wisom Father Cest! This is a clash of culture and we are in for it!

Although I think you shouldn’t be sp reserved! 😉
 
Muslims live much better here then in their own lands. But if they feel discriminated against they can always return from whence they came. Oddly you don’t see them doing that do you?
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By your logic then, any amount of racism and discrimination against muslims is permissible, as long as it’s not worse than whatever government they came from is doing. That’s not a standard to govern by.

The reason these protests have so much force is that muslims have already been given every reason to believe that the west has declared a war on Islam. That gives more fuel to the radicals who organize these protests. Every post like yours gives them more fuel too, and actually makes them right…if most people here feel as you do, then it’s in fact true that the west is anti-islam and hates them.
Did the Irish commit terrorist acts during the 1960 election? No, they had shown for over 100 years that they were loyal Americans who fought to defend our nation.
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Irish organized crime, Irish labor revolts, and continuous financial support for the Irish Republican movement would say otherwise. But the Irish are white, speak english like we do, and have a faith that is no longer hated (even though Catholics were grossly discriminated against in the past.) That’s why today you think everything was fine and dandy. In the past, that wasn’t so…it’s just that now everyone realizes that those claims of doom and gloom were all lies.
What is “hateful” is Muslims justifying terrorism against our country or killing innocent Christians because they don’t like a cartoon! The most anti-Semitic violence today is perpetrated by Muslims not Christians.
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And most drug use and child molestation is committed by “christians.” Muslims have criminals too. What’s so hard to understand about that? We are lucky enough to have governments that arrest and crush KKK criminals…they are not so lucky. Doesn’t change a thing about their traditions or religious beliefs.

Edit:

The MEMRI site is a series of translations of only radical speeches. It’s like taking all of the racist conventions that go on in the United States, publishing them, and saying nothing about the context or what the current mood regarding racism is in America.
 
And I reiterate…is it not a muslim that planted the cartoon? :confused:
 
And I reiterate…is it not a muslim that planted the cartoon?
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It was a danish paper originally, and then all the major European papers started printing the cartoons over and over to prove a point about free speech.

At the same time, no one seems to be up in arms about someone being sentenced to prison for anti-semitic speeches (David Irving). I have to wonder if the row was about free speech, or about bashing an unpopular religion.
 
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pro_universal:
It was a danish paper originally, and then all the major European papers started printing the cartoons over and over to prove a point about free speech.

At the same time, no one seems to be up in arms about someone being sentenced to prison for anti-semitic speeches (David Irving). I have to wonder if the row was about free speech, or about bashing an unpopular religion.
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That doesn’t answer my question…was it or was it not a muslim?
 
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pro_universal:
By your logic then, any amount of racism and discrimination against muslims is permissible, as long as it’s not worse than whatever government they came from is doing. That’s not a standard to govern by.

#If they are loyal and abide by our laws I have no problem with them. But they don’t seem willing to do that for the most part. They instead set up a parallel government. That can’t last. Something will give.

The reason these protests have so much force is that muslims have already been given every reason to believe that the west has declared a war on Islam. That gives more fuel to the radicals who organize these protests. Every post like yours gives them more fuel too, and actually makes them right…if most people here feel as you do, then it’s in fact true that the west is anti-islam and hates them.

#That is BS. We did everything possible to placate them. Yet they butcher and enslave Christians abroad. I would risk my life just to visit some of their countries. They are anti-Christian and anti-American. After 911 they cheered and they do so whenever we have a set back. But when they bomb a school or pizza parlour they rejoice and when we finally get Osama what do you think they will do?

Irish organized crime, Irish labor revolts, and continuous financial support for the Irish Republican movement would say otherwise. But the Irish are white, speak english like we do, and have a faith that is no longer hated (even though Catholics were grossly discriminated against in the past.) That’s why today you think everything was fine and dandy. In the past, that wasn’t so…it’s just that now everyone realizes that those claims of doom and gloom were all lies.

#The IRA was not religiously motivated. They are marxists. In the US Catholics were discriminated against. But they EARNED their place. They fought and were loyal. They became Americans. Where are the 10’s of thousands of Muslims in the US volunteering to serve in the Army and Intelligence services?

And most drug use and child molestation is committed by “christians.” Muslims have criminals too. What’s so hard to understand about that? We are lucky enough to have governments that arrest and crush KKK criminals…they are not so lucky. Doesn’t change a thing about their traditions or religious beliefs.

#Again BS. They have drug problems and they tend to executed addicts. As for child molesting! It is rampant in Islamic countries. They can marry girls as young as 9 legally. And you don’t think they like boys to? Arafat sure did.

Edit:

The MEMRI site is a series of translations of only radical speeches. It’s like taking all of the racist conventions that go on in the United States, publishing them, and saying nothing about the context or what the current mood regarding racism is in America.
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#It translates Arab government press reports. They don’t like it because it reveals what they really think.
 
The problem is that Islam itself does not seem amenable to freedom of religion. Now, I may be wrong on this. I don’t see Muslims in the USA agitating for Sharia law to be imposed here.

But in most Islamic countries of the middle east, it seems that non-Islamic religions are given a second class status.

In a recent tape, didn’t bid Laden invite Bush to become Muslim? Was there an implied “or else?”
 
#It translates Arab government press reports. They don’t like it because it reveals what they really think.
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That isn’t true. In the first place, none of those governments are democratic…in the second, it posts almost exclusively releases from the most extreme, hard-line parties it can find. Kind of like posting things from the American nazi party only and claiming a website just “posts news from America.”
But in most Islamic countries of the middle east, it seems that non-Islamic religions are given a second class status.
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This is actually a recent development. Before the 20th century, muslims were on the whole more tolerant of religious diversity than the Christian world. Jews, any brand of christian, and the original Christians all lived there as integrated and relatively well off members of the respective societies.

That’s why there are still millions of Christian arabs, and that’s also why before 1948 there were hundreds of thousands of Jews living in every part of the muslim world.
 
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pro_universal:
This is actually a recent development. Before the 20th century, muslims were on the whole more tolerant of religious diversity than the Christian world. Jews, any brand of christian, and the original Christians all lived there as integrated and relatively well off members of the respective societies.

That’s why there are still millions of Christian arabs, and that’s also why before 1948 there were hundreds of thousands of Jews living in every part of the muslim world.
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So you’re saying that it’s possible for Islam to co-exist peacefully as just one religion out of many? I certainly hope that this is the case.
 
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pro_universal:
No, that’s what I was saying. No.
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Actually, the three most offensive cartoons were planted (composed and passed off as Danish) by mullahs.
 
Memri lists the newspapers they translate. Look for yourself. They are the ones they read over there. Islamic tolerance was never very tolerant. Ask the Armenians in Turkey, oh wait, they are all dead. Ask the Copts in Egypt how wonderful the last 1300 years has been. You will get an ear full. In Spain Christians were treated little better then slaves. They fought 700 years for their freedom. Dhimmitude was never pleasant. Tell you what. Let’s meet in Saudi Arabia for a public Mass. How about in Mecca? Let’s put your view to the test. Make sure your life insurance is paid up.
 
Memri lists the newspapers they translate. Look for yourself. They are the ones they read over there. Islamic tolerance was never very tolerant.
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I did look at the list of “speakers.” Those are indeed the standard lineup of radicals.
Ask the Armenians in Turkey, oh wait, they are all dead.
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Interesting you mention that. The Armenian genocide happened when Turkey abandoned its role as an Islamic state and secularized itself. That was practically the first thing the pro-secularists did in Turkey.
Ask the Copts in Egypt how wonderful the last 1300 years has been.
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You mean like Boutros Boutros Ghali, the former Secretary General of the UN? There are still millions of Copts. Here’s what the online Coptic encyclopaedia has to say about the subject:
The position of the Copts began to improve early in the 19th century under the stability and tolerance of Muhammad Ali’s dynasty. The Coptic community ceased to be regarded by the state as an administrative unit and, by 1855 A.D., the main mark of Copts’ inferiority, the “Gezya” tax was lifted, and shortly thereafter Copts started to serve in the Egyptian army. The 1919 A.D. revolution in Egypt, the first grassroots dispaly of Egyptian identity in centuries, stands as a witness to the homogeneity of Egypt’s modern society with both its Muslim and Coptic sects. Today, this homogeneity is what keeps the Egyptian society united against the religious intolerance of extremist groups, who occasionaly subject the Copts to persecution and terror. Modern day martyrs, like Father Marcos Khalil, serve as reminders of the miracle of Coptic survival.
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coptic.net/EncyclopediaCoptica/
If you compare that with the role and treatment of Jews in Europe at the time, I’m going to have to say the muslims there have the upper hand in terms of tolerance for religious minorities.
In Spain Christians were treated little better then slaves. They fought 700 years for their freedom. Dhimmitude was never pleasant.
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This position is so devoid of historical evidence that you would be laughed out of any serious history discussion on muslim Spain.

Christians in Spain lived measurably better lives during the muslim heyday than they did under the Castillians, and Jews lived infinitely better lives. The reason there are all those sephardic (spanish speaking jews) people in Turkey is that they had to flee Spain once the “christians” took over again. To call the regime that replaced the emirate in spain one of “freedom” is outright insulting to the millions of Jews, Christians, and Muslims who were butchered by the people who brought us peonage and genocide in the new world during the exact same time period.
Let’s meet in Saudi Arabia for a public Mass. How about in Mecca? Let’s put your view to the test. Make sure your life insurance is paid up.
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And here’s where a good knowledge of middle eastern history can help you to prevent falling into the ‘all muslims do x’ trap. The cult that runs Saudi Arabia founded its country in 1924…and it is indeed a cult considered heretical by the vast majority of Muslims. Using the Saudis as an exemplar of Islam is like taking Jim Jones’s group and saying “that’s a good example of what Christianity is like!”.

But you wouldn’t know that if you didn’t bother to read the books on muslim history. I’m always amazed at how people will sit in judgment on another culture/country knowing full well that they have never cracked a single serious book on the place.
 
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cestusdei:
At dinner we were discussing the current Islamic crusade on the cartoons. They are killing dozens of people and demanding censorship. One guy is Scottish and lives in Paris. It was asked, “I wonder what is going to happen?” I in my usual restrained fashion said, “eventually there will be civil war and mass deportations…either of the Christians or the Muslims.” He looked surprised and then simply nodded. He knew that was the likely end to all of this.

Look how the Muslims act on the boards. Do you think living as dhimmi under their rule would be fun? There is little difference between jihad and crusade. I think we need to start to make clear stands. Just say “no”. No to their hypocrisy, lies, violence, hatred, bigotry, and intolerance. If they don’t like it let’s kick them out. I don’t care if they were born in the West or not. Strip them of citizenship and heave them out the door. We are nursing a viper to our breast. They seem to have no desire to integrate. So they can get out. One day the Europeans may wake up and find that it’s time to either say praise Allah or Deus Vult.
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In some ways Europe is already there. Today I read that a German court just sentenced a man to 5 years probation and 300 days of community service for printing the koran on toilet paper, and trying to distribute this. Now, granted, this not a very wise thing to do but does the sentence fit the “crime”? He could have gotten 1 year in jail but it was communted to a lesser sentence. So, in some ways Europe is already in the palm of Islam.
 
Alright! I can’t take my ignorance anymore. I have NEVER seen any of the cartoons that have caused such a stir, so I can’t make a judgement on that.

As for booting people of a certian religion out…
I don’t know.
I the one hand I completely agree that as Catholics we must stand firm in our beliefs, even in the face of tyrants. For that matter, especially int he face of tyrants and oppression or persecution.
And yet, tossing all the muslims out also denies them the opportunity to encounter and be affected by our faith. That can’t be a good thing.
 
Europe may indeed fall in time! So might North America, anything is possible. It may even be all in the “Big Plan” Only God knows for sure!

The one thing I’m certain of is that the Church will never fall. If we as Christians are to prosecuted for being Christians it would certainly be our own fault.

Europe secular Realivistic mindset is it’s own undoing and may indeed need to be purged before it’s christian roots can once again grow more wheat than weeds!

Peace! 👍
 
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prodigal-sun:
Europe may indeed fall in time! So might North America, anything is possible. It may even be all in the “Big Plan” Only God knows for sure!

The one thing I’m certain of is that the Church will never fall. If we as Christians are to prosecuted for being Christians it would certainly be our own fault.

Europe secular Realivistic mindset is it’s own undoing and may indeed need to be purged before it’s christian roots can once again grow more wheat than weeds!

Peace! 👍
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Code:
It has happened before, and it will happen again. We never learn our lesson. Just by the fact that the mullas planted those cartoons tells me they truly want a jihad at any cost…we are going to pay!
 
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