Will life insurance pay for funerals?

[kage_ar]

You are the one advocating more liberal and as you say “modern practices”. The truth is cremation used to be seen as a pagan and heterodox practice.

By modern practice, I refer to the modern type of cosmetic embalming.

In times past, burial was just that, burial. Wash the body, dress the body and bury the body. No thousands of dollars to have chemicals pumped into the body so it will stay pretty for an open casket funeral.

People can choose to go without embalming and have a burial, however the industry does not inform people of that low cost and more respectful option.

I know well the history of cremation, the views of it over the years, and I did not question that. The Church permits cremation. The Church has full mass for people who have been cremated.

I can tell this is an emotional issue for you. I will pray for the soul of your young wife.

It still requires special permission to even bring the cremated remains into church.

Having made arrangments for many funerals every month, I have not had to seek such permission. I will research this and find out if we are in some sort of violation.

 

[kage_ar]

Follow up, in the US, it is normal for this permission have been granted as a blanket permission.

 

[Jay53]

People can choose to go without embalming and have a burial, however the industry does not inform people of that low cost and more respectful option.

Sorry, but you are incorrect. Funeral directors are required to receive express permission from the family to perform embalming and inform the family that embalming IS NOT required by law.

The second FTC Funeral Rule disclosure tells consumers that the law does not require embalming. The statement funeral service providers should include should read as follows:

“Except in certain special cases, embalming is not required by law. Embalming may be necessary, however, if you select certain funeral arrangements, such as a funeral with viewing. If you do not want embalming, you usually have the right to choose an arrangement that does not require you to pay for it, such as direct cremation or immediate burial.”

Funeral service providers do not need to include the phrase “except in certain special cases” if state or local law in the area where they do business does not require embalming under any circumstances. If they want to add information about state law requirements, they can do so after the FTC disclosure. This disclosure should be placed in immediate conjunction with the price for embalming.

“In immediate conjunction” means that the embalming disclosure must appear directly next to the price for embalming. The funeral service provider should not put the disclosure on a separate page or anywhere else on the GPL apart from the embalming price. (See the sample GPL for more details.) funeralplan.com/funeralplan/consumer/ftcembalming.html

 

[kage_ar]

Sorry, but you are incorrect. Funeral directors are required to receive express permission from the family to perform embalming and inform the family that embalming IS NOT required by law.

I’d imagine if we took a poll of those who have been “the family” we’d find that this was not made clear as an option to almost every one who answers.

Even the wording above - “immediate burial” - would lead those not thinking clearly to imagine they could not have a funeral or Mass.

 

[CentralFLJames]

Follow up, in the US, it is normal for this permission have been granted as a blanket permission.

Now you have be curious since there is no valid “USA” ecclesial office outside of Rome that can make blanket permissions to my knowledge. The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops is a “conference” and in and of itself I do not believe it speaks with a binding authority of canon law for all US bishops unless there is unanimous consent on a particular matter by every bishop. Bishops generally report directly to Rome irrespective of country except for cases where a papal commission has established a special ecclesial office for conducting narrow topic affairs. So my understanding was each bishop is free to set his own policy for his own dioceses or arch-diocese in these sort of matters. I think they in turn will generally permit each of their parish priests to have latitude on how they want to deal with certain practices.

So it may be that your dioceses bishop has issued a general dispensation but I am not so certain that the Vatican has issued one through its authorities as a blanket permission.

I will look into it also.

James

 

[CentralFLJames]

Aha - I think I found it. It’s an indult not an dispensation from the Vatican’s Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments.

Indult on Cremation

From the Committee on Divine Worship
*On April 18, 1997 Bishop Anthony Pilla informed the bishops of the United States that he had received a letter from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments which responded favorably to the NCCB’s request for an indult to allow the presence of the cremated remains of a body at the Funeral Mass.

Bishop Pilla called attention to the language of the indult which gives to each diocesan bishop the right to decide whether to allow the practice in his diocese. In his letter, Bishop Pilla alerted the bishops to the Committee on the Liturgy’s statement,“Reflections on the Body, Cremation, and Catholic Funeral Rites” which is now available as a catechetical tool to help dioceses understand the Church’s position on burial and cremation.

Finally, Bishop Pilla asked the bishops not to utilize the indult until the texts and ritual directives, which had been approved by the bishops last November, are confirmed by the Apostolic See. The following is the text of the letter from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments: *

The rest of the letter is at the link.

James

 

[kage_ar]

Where on earth did I say that one office could answer for all the US?

If I am not clear, let me restate. In the United States of America, it is common for the Ordinary to grant blanket permission for all of his Parishes to have funerals for those who have been cremated, as cremation is at this present day permitted to the faithful.

You are very clear, you do not like cremation. It would be unwise for you to ever choose such for your family.

It is permitted for good, holy, orthodox, Latin lovin’, rosary prayin’ Catholics to be or have their loved ones cremated. The family, in most Parishes in the US, will not have to jump through any hoops to gain special permission.

 

[Jay53]

I’d imagine if we took a poll of those who have been “the family” we’d find that this was not made clear as an option to almost every one who answers.

Even the wording above - “immediate burial” - would lead those not thinking clearly to imagine they could not have a funeral or Mass.

Possibly. That’s why it is our job as funeral directors to educate the public as to their options. I’ve encountered many families who are not aware that embalming is not required by law, however it is explained to them when we ask for their permission to embalm and again when they plan their arrangements.

I’m also a big advocate for pre-planning - for families to discuss all of their options both with a funeral home and with their loved ones so as to avoid confusion and indecision at a very difficult time.

 

[CentralFLJames]

Where on earth did I say that one office could answer for all the US?
kage_ar;5209361:

Follow up, in the US, it is normal for this permission have been granted as a blanket permission.

You seem to be in a rather cranky mood today. Might I recommend prune juice?

You are reframing the dispute and manufacturing a strawman - you clearly indicated that you thought there was a blanket permission in place in the USA. I have not found any such national level blanket permission yet - but have not checked all the latest records. But for the immediate comments we are going round and round on please see the nested quote above from you which I included for convenience of your recollection.

Thanks for your clarification since you certainly did seem to suggest that you were speaking of a USA territory wide “blanket permission” (as if a national indult) in your comments. I did not think that any bishop in Arkansas, your home state, had the authority to speak for the much older established arch-dioceses and other more senior dioceses around the country.

If I am not clear, let me restate. In the United States of America, it is common for the Ordinary to grant blanket permission for all of his Parishes to have funerals for those who have been cremated, as cremation is at this present day permitted to the faithful.

You are very clear, you do not like cremation. It would be unwise for you to ever choose such for your family.

It is permitted for good, holy, orthodox, Latin lovin’, rosary prayin’ Catholics to be or have their loved ones cremated. The family, in most Parishes in the US, will not have to jump through any hoops to gain special permission.

People can’t make these kinds of important decisions on your opinion of “common practice”. One must check their own diocese that will be conducting the rites to see what their bishop actually permits de-facto for cremation.

But you are very clear on one point. You tend to prefer to go against Church preferences and personally prefer cremation over Catholic burial and probably mis-advise others of your personal preferences. It would be unwise for you to ever choose a normal preferred Catholic burial for for your family and I might suggest that when you advise others outside of your own family you tell them that The Church and orthodox Catholics prefer and recommend burial and in the case of cremation GREATLY prefer the rites be executed prior to cremation.

So, re-clarifying, the bottom line here is your original statements in this OP concerning the performing of funeral liturgy in the presence of cremated remains is in fact NOT a blanket permission across the USA and cremation is NOT preferred to burial. If this is the best you can admit to being wrong - Thank-you. So, every person facing an internment decision and funeral rite better not assume anything and it would prudent to first check with the parish or dioceses in which the rites will be performed.

Here are snippets from the indult that AGAIN re-emphasises that burial is to be GREATLY encouraged over cremation – which is in complete agreement with my original post #12 that you attempted to contradict and mis-correct. You are still doing everything in your power here to try to back-peddle away from your original error rather than admit you were simply wrong and misinformed on the norms. I normally expect this kind of “contest” from anti-Catholics challenging the catechism and had no idea that a fellow Catholic would made such a benign topic become such a brouhaha. I would never have dreamt that a new Catholic convert such as yourself would dare try to talk down to a cradle catholic (which I am). FYI, I was weened on Latin Tridentine Masses, instructed and catechized from age 6 to age 15 by ordered nuns and priests, attended mass every day of my youth and attended Catholic parochial school.

Why not let it “rest in peace” dude. Sheesh…
CONGREGATIO DE CULTU DIVINO ET DISCIPLINA SACRAMENTORUM (Prot. 1589/96/L 21 March 1997):

Oringal text: Indult on Cremation.

It is greatly to be preferred that the funeral liturgy take place in the presence of the body of the deceased prior to its cremation.

…

Experience has shown that on occasion request is made for the funeral liturgy to be celebrated in the presence of the ashes of the deceased after cremation. In the light of an opinion expressed by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on 3 December 1984 (prot. 99/18), and of the recent vote of the Assembly of Bishops, this Dicastery concedes a particular permission to the diocesan Bishops of the United States of America. By this, local Ordinaries are authorized in the individual cases which are brought to their attention to permit that the funeral liturgy, including where appropriate the celebration of the Eucharist, be celebrated in the presence of the cremated remains instead of the natural body. In each individual case the local Ordinary should give due consideration to the various aspects of the pastoral situation and to the spirit and precise content of the current canonical norms. It is necessary that care be taken that all is carried out with due decorum.

…

In this connection, the Congregation views very favorably the intention of Your Excellency that the whole question of cremation be the object of a nuanced catechesis.

…

Pax,
James

 

[kage_ar]

James, I never stooped to personal jabs. I’d appreciate you having the same consideration.

 

[danialmark83]

Is there anyone who knows how to personalize a funeral service? Is it needed some necessary arrangements in advance?

 

[CentralFLJames]

Is there anyone who knows how to personalize a funeral service? Is it needed some necessary arrangements in advance?

What do you mean danial? If you mean the vigil, mass and grave side service - yes within limits. The Parishes will normally let you pick the songs and the readings from a list and arrange to have your own readers of the 1st and 2nd readings as well as give a short eulogy AFTER communion before dismissal. At the vigil it is permitted to have as many as you like come forward to speak for the deceased but the funeral mass they like to keep to just one or maybe 2 speakers and to stay within the liturgy. The priest will speak the homily. The graveside service is usually just a simple blessing and consecration of the ground and coffin and prayers. You may elect to arrange a police escort through the funeral home but depending on distance to the grave-site it can get expensive since you are paying the police for their personal time. Also, at the mass and vigil you can often arrange to pay for your own choir or singers etc. if you want something more than just a volunteer organist and 1 or 2 vocalist that the church will normally provide.

The actual details of the funeral preparations are all optional with the funeral home (style of caskets, vaults, embalming, obituary length, cards, guest book etc.). Flowers can get hugely expensive and you might like to donate these to the church altar etc. or have people donate the money to a favorite charity instead. We had to get a lot of help to relocate the many flowers to the place of reception and it was a lot of work and we ended having to leave some very nice arrangements behind for lack of room. I recommend making up a generic obituary well ahead of time with blank dates etc. to be filled in if you expect a death in the next few years since it can be very stressful trying to recollect the details of a person’s life and not leaving out important information. I had to write and rewrite one till 3 am in the morning to make a publishing deadline so people would get the word into as I wanted more than just a short bio as well. These can also get quite expensive depending on length ($750 in my case). You might like to publish in multiple newspapers if known well in other places outsife of home area where they grew up etc.

You can of course do anything you wish at the receptions - and I do recommend for larger funerals to just go hire a banquet hall and cater it. Put up placard boards with photos in the entrance area since people like to reminiscence and identity with good memories. This can be the most difficult to arrange on short notice if doing a full burial within the traditional 3 days or so of death. We have a lot of resort style hotels so had lots of catering and room options but smaller towns are not so easy to schedule and may have to go with social halls etc. from church or a rented condo rec room etc.

James

 

[danialmark83]

I have got the information which I have looking for on Texas Funeral Homes. I am really thankful to all of you for your support. If any of you knows some more online resource form where I got the same information then please suggest me. Please continue your great support.

Thanks,

 

[Saint_Sebastian]

I will find that funeral services are so expensive in US so what’s the best way to save money on a funeral? Will life insurance pay for funerals? I have to suggest my friend who is basically from Texas so it’s better for me if anyone give me info on Texas funeral services.

Thanks,
Danial

The best way to determine whether life insurance will pay is to research the payment record of the company you are considering. Many life insurance company’s contracts contain fine print clauses which exclude payments in certain “cause of death”. My brother’s Veteran’s life insurance policy refused to pay for his death because he did not die an “accidental” death. When purchasing any type of insurance, read the contract thoroughly to find out what is included also what is excluded in coverage then follow up before signing by asking the agent for a list of customers that you can talk to to “see for yourself” that the insurance company actually pays out on it’s policies. There are many fraudulent insurance companies that collect premiums from members then refuse to pay out benefits. That is why life insurance companies are some of the wealthiest corporations in American, because they take your money, then refuse to honour their contract or else deceive members through “fine print” exclusions making it nearly impossible to receive benefits without an attorney’s help. The only life insurance company worth signing with is one that has a record of payment with the least restrictive policy which meets your needs. Consider having an attorney read the “fine print” on the policy to advise you whether the company is legitimate and worthy of your trust.

 

[Saint_Sebastian]

Is there anyone who knows how to personalize a funeral service? Is it needed some necessary arrangements in advance?

The best way to personalize a funeral service is to know the priest who is presiding and make certain you are selecting a funeral home that is compliant with Catholic Church protocol and Doctrine. I was denied a rosary for both my brother and sister in law at the funeral home located next to the church. I reported the funeral home for anti-Catholic sentiment. The Priest found a better funeral home for me.

 

[Jay53]

The best way to personalize a funeral service is to know the priest who is presiding and make certain you are selecting a funeral home that is compliant with Catholic Church protocol and Doctrine. I was denied a rosary for both my brother and sister in law at the funeral home located next to the church. I reported the funeral home for anti-Catholic sentiment. The Priest found a better funeral home for me.

Just curious, what was the funeral home’s reasoning for denying the rosary?

 

[Saint_Sebastian]

Just curious, what was the funeral home’s reasoning for denying the rosary?

The reason the funeral home denied the recitation of the rosary was because the management is protestant and does not believe in the Blessed Mother of Christ and the practice of prayer in the Holy Rosary.

 

[CentralFLJames]

The reason the funeral home denied the recitation of the rosary was because the management is protestant and does not believe in the Blessed Mother of Christ and the practice of prayer in the Holy Rosary.

I suspect this is a violation of law. But how ironic for them to be all too happy to take a Catholic’s money and help them get their loved ones properly interned so they can get on with thier time in hell huh?

If I ever ran across a place like this I’d go create a website and get the information out on them with copies of all documenting evidence (emails, voice messages, letters, photos of business and faces of management etc.). Then I’d make sure they got an invitation in the mail to come visit the site to see what their customers and your many family and friends are writing about their bigoted and hypocritical attitudes on the blog and how google is picking it all up for the whole world to see.

I just bet that you could get them to offer to “bury” the hatchet and buy out the web site from you and become more flexible in their policies - who know even convert.

People like this need to be exposed for the two-faced hippocrites that they are.

James

 

[AHapka]

Some of her family wanted closed casket.

This is one of those times, though, where you as the husband should decide what you and her would have wanted and just do it.

In my daughter’s case, my mom was very against me having an open casket. Me and my wife, however, decided that was the way we were doing it. And that was that. Having a closed casket prevents one from directly confronting the fact of human beings and morality head on. Sure, we all know there is a body in there. But if you don’t see it, it’s just not as “real.” Plus we have to celebrate her life. In her case, she lived 13 days and not everyone got to see her. So it was one last chance for those who had not.

But I don’t begrudge anyone doing either decision. And I completely think closed casket is the right choice for certain cases (horribly disfiguring accident, massive head injuries, etc.).

 

[CentralFLJames]

This is one of those times, though, where you as the husband should decide what you and her would have wanted and just do it.

In my daughter’s case, my mom was very against me having an open casket. Me and my wife, however, decided that was the way we were doing it. And that was that. Having a closed casket prevents one from directly confronting the fact of human beings and morality head on. Sure, we all know there is a body in there. But if you don’t see it, it’s just not as “real.” Plus we have to celebrate her life. In her case, she lived 13 days and not everyone got to see her. So it was one last chance for those who had not.

But I don’t begrudge anyone doing either decision. And I completely think closed casket is the right choice for certain cases (horribly disfiguring accident, massive head injuries, etc.).

Thanks - you and I are in perfect agreement here. I can’t imagine what you went through losing such a young daughter - God bless you and her! I absolutely agree - one should confront death face to face to get closure and see how real it is and how sin kills things we love. If Adam & Eve never disobeyed none of these loved ones would die. Seeing a deceased loved one makes one want to get angry at sin and keep in mind how every time we sin we are hurting a loved one. Every sin effects every other person in some mystical way (just as good acts do in the positive sense) and that is why we all must suffer and die.

I wanted to convey another personal story here but its too involved and too personal. It involves my mother in law trying to hijack the funeral and take over all the arrangements I had made; and getting the families all upset by spinning everyone up that I was trying to do it all without consulting anyone (as I was racing to meet funeral deadlines). She even tried to take over our house and had many of her personal friends (strangers to us) visiting my dieing wife and exhausted her with idle talk and commotion so she was too sleepy to talk to me when all left late at night. Then these complete strangers (6-8 friends of her mothers) just sat there and watched and listened to all my private words to my wife as she died in my arms. I wanted to scream at the lack of respect and basic human consideration and physically throw them out of our house. The kicker was seeing my poor wife cry through her oxygen mask over all the drama and conflict her mom was causing us in the day before she died. It was bad enough losing a loved spouse but a complete living hell dealing with her mother.

I could write a book on the whole story and over all the petty things her mother did to try her hardest to interfere with the funeral arrangements. There are still ongoing petty contests over the grave headstone and who gets to put flowers in the single flower vase. I think her mother is still upset that I did not consult her when I put a personal verse in the rose granite headstone that starts: “Beloved wife”. In her mother’s eyes she was never married since she could never leave her mother.

Sigh…

James