Will Pell be defrocked?

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All the indications are that the Vatican believes him to be not guilty.
 
He is still going thru the appeals process so, IMO, too soon to know
 
That is my sense, too. If what I have read is true AFA evidence, there is plenty of doubt to be had and he may be a scapegoat
 
My personal belief is still that he is not guilty, though I have no other source of information than what I read and hear in the media and online, including several knowledgeable Aussies posting here at CAF. @Edmundus1581, @Greenfields, @Roseeurekacross, and others.
 
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  • Degree of gravity
  • Degree of certainty
What role do the above have in defrocking?

Because there are degrees to both.
 
adgloriam said:
  • Degree of gravity
  • Degree of certainty
What role do the above have in defrocking?

Because there are degrees to both.
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The accusations are more grave than those against McCarrick.

The accusations led to a unanimous verdict of guilty by a jury, which seems more credible than those against McCarrick. (As in, the scandal is reason enough to defrock him)

I am not sure those are the criteria the Vatican will use.
 
Bradskii said:
Does the Vatican have any option?
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The best answer I’ve found is that they’re looking into it.

Given his conviction in Australian court, it would scandalize the Church further if it didn’t arrive at a similar conclusion, though. So you’re right about that.

Too bad. I liked Pell. Thought he was one of the “good ones”. In recognition of the good he’s done, I hope they let him serve his “prison sentence” in Rome for the remainder of his days. 😦
 
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Based on what the Holy See said today, an ecclesiastical process has not even been initiated against Cardinal Pell. He has been “removed from public ministry”, by the local bishop in Australia, but the Holy See will do nothing until the civil process is definitively ended. And, it is the Holy See alone that can take up the case (ecclesiastically).

The civil trial/judgment has nothing to do with his ecclesiastical status (that is, as a cleric or not, as suspended or not, etc.) and, although it would be undesirable, civil and ecclesiastical judgments might not always agree with each other.

http://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2019/02/26/190226e.html

Dan
 
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As an aside, there is concern that quite a few Australian journalists may be charged with disobeying a court order not to name Pell in any reports. Many articles were written along the lines of: ‘A well known figure has been charged with serious offences but we are unable to name that person’.

I named him in a post a few months back and I think that was tecnically illegal as well (I’m an Australian).

As far as Pell is concerned, he is looking down the barrel of a few years in jail. His health is not that good and he’s 77. He may not survive it.
 
Bradskii said:
As an aside, there is concern that quite a few Australian journalists may be charged with disobeying a court order not to name Pell in any reports. Many articles were written along the lines of: ‘A well known figure has been charged with serious offences but we are unable to name that person’.

I named him in a post a few months back and I think that was tecnically illegal as well (I’m an Australian).

As far as Pell is concerned, he is looking down the barrel of a few years in jail. His health is not that good and he’s 77. He may not survive it.
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If that occurs, it’ll send a very powerful message world-wide.

I think the Baptists of my upbringing had the better view of the matter. If you have to fight it, then you don’t have the gift of celibacy.

That makes one human just like the rest of us. Let the guys marry. At least in the priestly ranks. Give that steam a place to licitly blow-off…
 
Guinness said:
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Vonsalza:
If you have to fight it, then you don’t have the gift of celibacy.
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Celibacy isn’t a gift, it’s a discipline.
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I’m not going to hijack Bradskii’s thread, so this is the last I’ll type on it here.

Where it’s mentioned by Christ in Matthew 19, He uses the phrase “only those to whom it has been given” to describe it.

Where it’s mentioned by Paul in 1 Corinthians 7 he immediately qualifies celibacy with “But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that”.

Last word is yours, on this anyway.
 
The fact that Crdl. Pell was eager to go through ‘the process’ (at least, I heard that he was eager to go through the process) leads me to believe that he is innocent. I could be wrong.
 
I have no idea if he’s guilty or not. I’m wary now of trusting any testimony from a Church figure sorry to say. After Cardinal Marx admitted they destroyed documents, I lost pretty much any trust I had in testimony on this subject. I just find all of it so tragic.
 
ioannes_pius said:
The fact that Crdl. Pell was eager to go through ‘the process’ (at least, I heard that he was eager to go through the process) leads me to believe that he is innocent. I could be wrong.
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I’m not sure he was given the choice.
 
The first jury didn’t find him guilty. The second one did. There’s a lot of talk about “stacking the deck” against him. He’s going through an appeal process.
As I understand it, his alleged crimes were committed in public areas such as the busy sacristy of the cathedral. He maintains his innocence and many believe him… everyone knows McCarrick is guilty.
 
stpurl said:
Men do not abuse boys because they cannot marry.
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All human beings cry out for sex, barring supernatural intervention or medical issue. It’s a fundamental biological drive.

If young boys are the only people they ever see in relative privacy, well… 2 and 2 folks.

It’s the same reason otherwise straight men engage in homosexual acts in prison. It’s just “what’s around”.
 
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This article by the National Catholic Register makes it seem like Cardinal Pell might be a scapegoat

http://m.ncregister.com/59726/d

The fact that all of the alleged victims have recanted their statements, except for one, and fact that there seems to be holes in the testimony, make it seem like it is possible that Cardinal Pell is being framed or that this is a lie/hit job.

Now, if he’s guilty - I’m all for sentencing. But as we have seen lately, there seems to be a growing number of people who are willing to make false accusations against others for political motives. So it makes me very cautious. It’s more important now that ever to assume someone is innocent until proven guilty.
 
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