Will people who do not help the State of Israel be cursed?

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Abba

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Lately, I have read several times that if people do not support the state of Israel they shall be cursed and the following quote is provided:

Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

What is the Catholic response to this claim?
 
Abba said:
Lately, I have read several times that if people do not support the state of Israel they shall be cursed and the following quote is provided:

Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

What is the Catholic response to this claim?
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The question is: are “the sons of Israel” (which I would identify here with the Jewish people as a whole) the same as the modern state of Israel (the one founded in the 1940s)?
 
As alluded to in the previous post, the state of Israel is not the jewish people entire. Israel today is a secular political entity and should not be confused with the Israel in the bible.
 
Abba said:
Lately, I have read several times that if people do not support the state of Israel they shall be cursed and the following quote is provided:

Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

What is the Catholic response to this claim?
Click to expand...
Actually, the Catholic Church doesn’t have an official teaching–not in the Catechism, at any rate. My own response is to point out that Israel does not represent all Jews.

It would make just as little sense as conflating (1) the state of Lebanon created by the French mandate for the Maronites in the area with the Melkites, Syriac Catholics, Armenian Catholics, and Latins in Syria, Jordan, and Israel-Palestine, or (2) the states resulting from the peaceful dissolution of Czechoslovakia with all Czechs and Slovaks who remained in what are now Austria, Croatia, Hungary, Poland, Romania, Serbia, and Ukraine after their families have lived there for generations.
 
The people that peddle this “curse” nonsense (Mike Evans comes to mind) do not accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah, and therefore lack any credibility or authority to teach the meaning of Scripture. They are false prophets. They are still living in the Old Testament and therefore are not aware the The Catholic Church is the New Israel.

Also, people like Evans make the mistake of conflating the biblical Israel with the modern state of Israel, as if they are one and the same. They also conflate “Israeli” with “Jew” as if they are one and the same. Nothing could be further from the truth.
 
To Abraham were the promises made and to his seed. He saith not, And to his seeds, as of many: but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. Galatians 3:16
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I believe the above gives the Christian understanding of the promise to Abraham as expounded by Paul. Paul is speaking of Genesis 12:7 just after the passage you originally quoted of 12:3
 
Abba said:
Lately, I have read several times that if people do not support the state of Israel they shall be cursed and the following quote is provided:

Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

What is the Catholic response to this claim?
Click to expand...
Also note that Abraham’s descendants extend well beyond the Jewish people of today.
 
Haydock says…
Ver. 3. In thee, &c., or in the Messias, who will be one of thy descendants, and the source of all the blessings to be conferred on any of the human race, Galatians iii. 16. Many of the foregoing promises regarded a future world, and Abram was by no means incredulous, when he found himself afflicted here below, as if God had forgot his promises. (Calmet) — He was truly blessed, in knowing how to live poor in spirit, even amid riches and honours; faithful in all tribulations and trials; following God in all things, ver. 1.
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haydock1859.tripod.com/id339.html
 
MarMax said:
What’s a real Jew?

Zulfiqar… see you’ve retained the Muslim aspect of your searchingness. The sword of Ali, correct?
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A real Jew, in my opinion, is an Orthodox Jew. Ultra-Orthodox Jews, for the most part, are anti-Zionism. Neturei Karta is a group of Orthodox Jews that live in Israel but they are anti-Israel. They lived in that area before Zionism. They believe that the state of Israel can only be under Jewish power legitimately when the Messiah comes. Since that has not happened (according to Judaism), the state of Israel, as it exists now, is illegitimate.

And yes. Haha I’m surprised someone knew of that. I tried many different username combinations that represented me “Truth Seeker” “Seeker” “Truth_Seeker” “Seeker of Truth” ad infinitum. Eventually, I just typed in Zulfiqar and it worked. lol
 
I’ve heard this before, that the modern state of Israel is not the same as the Israel of the Bible, and I’m really trying to wrap my head around this (to use one of the more colorful and odd expressions out there now!).

The folks who make up the modern state of Israel can trace their lineage directly back to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, right? Is this an issue of the State of Israel being only a part of what constitutes Israel, or are they just considered an entirely different entity from Israel? Or is this related to spiritual Israel and the branches of the natural Olive Tree being replaced by wild branches?

I’m open, so please set me straight!
 
Russ_of_Tokyo said:
I’ve heard this before, that the modern state of Israel is not the same as the Israel of the Bible, and I’m really trying to wrap my head around this (to use one of the more colorful and odd expressions out there now!).

The folks who make up the modern state of Israel can trace their lineage directly back to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, right? Is this an issue of the State of Israel being only a part of what constitutes Israel, or are they just considered an entirely different entity from Israel? Or is this related to spiritual Israel and the branches of the natural Olive Tree being replaced by wild branches?

I’m open, so please set me straight!
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Not every Israeli is a Jew, and not every Jew is Israeli.
 
Well, that’s certainly true if all Jews are from the line of Judah who was one of the sons of Israel. Some Jews say they can trace their lineage back to different tribes such as Levi.

I was once asked by some people from the local Jewish center if I was one of their number (this was in a theater where I was playing the part of Mordecai in a play about Esther) but they used the word “Hebrew” which I thought was significant.
 
Russ_of_Tokyo said:
Well, that’s certainly true if all Jews are from the line of Judah who was one of the sons of Israel. Some Jews say they can trace their lineage back to different tribes such as Levi.

I was once asked by some people from the local Jewish center if I was one of their number (this was in a theater where I was playing the part of Mordecai in a play about Esther) but they used the word “Hebrew” which I thought was significant.
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No, not every Israeli citizen is a Jew and vice versa. And ‘Israeli’ does not equal ‘Israelite’.
 
Zulfiqar said:
Real Jews are anti-Israel.
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Very true.

We must not be deceived into supporting the zionist state of Israel. Judaism is not what gave Israel its inception, it is the ideology of zionism that brought Israel into existence.

As Zulfiqar said, real jews are anti-Israel, meaning jews who actually follow the torah to the best of their ability, the orthodox jews namely. These Jews are Israel’s most vehement opponents, because they realize the Jewish people forcibly taking back the land is not a fulfillment of Biblical prophecy but a crime against God, a sin to do so. Orthodox Jews believe that only God Himself will bring the true Israel back into existence with the coming of the Messiah. These zionists in Israel are the modern day equivalents of the zealots in the time of Jesus, Jews who used force and violence as way to restore Israel by fighting against the Romans. And it should be noted that Jesus refused to join them at every turn, because Jesus knew and said that His kingdom is not of this world.

The vast majority of zionist Jews are what we Catholics would see as “cafeteria catholics” or “cultural catholics” people who don’t follow all the teachings, may not even believe in the faith, but only refer to themselves as Catholics… in this case refer to themselves as Jews because of a cultural connection or ethnic connection, and so solidarity in support of Israel is based along these lines rather than true religious belief.

But this is one of the core aspects of zionism, it is an ethnic and political ideology, but only mascarades under the cover of Jewish roots to make it appear religious and thereby dispel any criticism from outsiders who can then be labeled antisemitic for their opposition to zionism. When in truth, the greatest critics of zionism and Israel are the most faithful orthodox Jews. The orthodox Jews who are opposed to Israel rightly call this Israel a fraud and counterfeit of the true Israel, and sadly many Christians have been duped into believing they are bound to support Israel no matter what under pain of being in rebellion to God.

I see zionist Christians turning a blind eye for the suffering of innocent people at the hands of the IDF, clamoring for war every time a country incurs the ire of Israel, and I can tell you one thing, this is not of God, and Jesus would by no means stand allied with Israel the way zionist Christians have. But in the mind of the zionist Christian, the Christian values of non-violence, fighting injustice for all people necessarily need to go out the window and be temporarily forgotten simply because the one making war and the one committing injustice is the state of Israel.

I encourage you all to investigate the history of the zionist movement, and the state of Israel. It is a proven falsehood to say that Israel was created as a result of the holocaust. The zionist movement had acquired a guarantee from the British government (who controlled Palestine after WW1) in the Balfour Declaration of 1917 to create a state for the Jewish people while Hitler was still a no name corporal in the German army. The holocaust merely provided the collective backing of the zionists by the major world powers in providing the heavy handed force that was able to establish the zionist state of Israel in Palestine.

We Christians are not bound to support the state of Israel, rather we should be critics of Israel just as we should be critics of every nation (including our own) that permits injustice to occur.
 
Fascinating. Are there any books or web sites out there on the subject that you would recommend?
 
Russ_of_Tokyo said:
Fascinating. Are there any books or web sites out there on the subject that you would recommend?
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I would recommend looking up videos on youtube, especially interviews with Orthodox Rabbis themselves, they are so articulate, informative,and concise about the subject. I used to be one of the Christians who got lured in by the zionist movement, the Christian aspect of it is very appealing because of the connection made between the state of Israel and the end times, so there is certainly a lot of excitement that draws people into the fold of the Christian zionist movement. But when you peel away these misguided and superficial elements, and taking into account the teaching of the Church, the Church fathers, and the views of practice orthodox Jews themselves, it becomes quite clear that the Christian zionist movement is barking up the wrong tree much like those Christians who subscribe to the rapture theology as portrayed in the Left Behind series.

I do believe this state of Israel has end times implications, but certainly not in the way the Christian zionists believe. From the Church fathers and scripture, we know that the antichrist will be jew and will proclaim himself to be the messiah deceiving many, and it seems to me that if this is the case, this false messiah, this antichrist can only arise from a place where he can legitimately attempt to convince the jews that he is the messiah, and this can only be done in Israel where he will attempt to fulfill messianic prophecy in an all together fraudulent way compared to the way of Jesus. So if anything I believe we should be skeptical of Israel’s policies (just as we should any other nation) and not give blind support to Israel as the zionist Christians seem to do, and operate under the delusion that the antichrist will be a muslim, or a random self absorbed gentile, I believe the scriptures and the Church fathers are very clear on neither being the case, but rather the scenario which I mentioned before unfolding.

But in terms of information here is an informative interview with Rabbi Yisroel Weiss
who is one of the more vocal Jewish critics of Israel and Zionism:

youtube.com/watch?v=wXjP1xdqbmE

Run some searches on Rabbi Weiss’s views on zionism and Israel and you’ll get a wealth of other information.
 
_L said:
I would recommend looking up videos on youtube, especially interviews with Orthodox Rabbis themselves, they are so articulate, informative,and concise about the subject. I used to be one of the Christians who got lured in by the zionist movement, the Christian aspect of it is very appealing because of the connection made between the state of Israel and the end times, so there is certainly a lot of excitement that draws people into the fold of the Christian zionist movement. But when you peel away these misguided and superficial elements, and taking into account the teaching of the Church, the Church fathers, and the views of practice orthodox Jews themselves, it becomes quite clear that the Christian zionist movement is barking up the wrong tree much like those Christians who subscribe to the rapture theology as portrayed in the Left Behind series.

I do believe this state of Israel has end times implications, but certainly not in the way the Christian zionists believe. From the Church fathers and scripture, we know that the antichrist will be jew and will proclaim himself to be the messiah deceiving many, and it seems to me that if this is the case, this false messiah, this antichrist can only arise from a place where he can legitimately attempt to convince the jews that he is the messiah, and this can only be done in Israel where he will attempt to fulfill messianic prophecy in an all together fraudulent way compared to the way of Jesus. So if anything I believe we should be skeptical of Israel’s policies (just as we should any other nation) and not give blind support to Israel as the zionist Christians seem to do, and operate under the delusion that the antichrist will be a muslim, or a random self absorbed gentile, I believe the scriptures and the Church fathers are very clear on neither being the case, but rather the scenario which I mentioned before unfolding.

But in terms of information here is an informative interview with Rabbi Yisroel Weiss
who is one of the more vocal Jewish critics of Israel and Zionism:

youtube.com/watch?v=wXjP1xdqbmE

Run some searches on Rabbi Weiss’s views on zionism and Israel and you’ll get a wealth of other information.
Click to expand...
You know, it kind of seems to me that many of the Christians who ‘support’ the state of Israel do so only because of their ideas about eschatology rather than what we could say is genuine concern for the country. In other words, they have their own agenda for supporting Israel the modern state.
 
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