Will Permanant Deacons make a big impact?

[JimR-OCDS]

Wow, thanks for sharing this, it is very informative. Two nights a week for 5 years, is quite a commitment for you and your wife.

I’m glad it worked out for you, I obviously have a interest in this area.
Thanks again.

Keep in mind that training for the diaconate is not the same in all the dioceses. It’s unfortunate. My diocese was very rigorous. Professors from Holy Cross taught, theology, scripture, church history, morality, etc. The guys who stayed with the program, worked their tails off. Only 4 out of the original 25 who started the discernment program, were ordained. of the 4, two were retired, one was a teacher, and the other owned his own business where he could make his own hours.

Many complained that the program was too difficult, and it wasn’t this difficult in the past. The deacon in our parish only had to go for 3 years of training, and it was not as rigorous. It may change because the director of the program, was removed for reasons I won’t get into. From what I understand, now the program is run by ordained deacons, with oversight from the director of vocations for the diocese. These deacons have a better sense of what sacrifices a married man must make to get through the training, and then serve in the ministry.

However, your diocese may be different. The state of NH, (I live in MA) is not as difficult as here. I believe they have a 3 year program and it’s once a week.

Check with your local diocesan office.

Jim

 

[Charybdis]

I am in the very beginnings of deaconate formation. Our diocese in NC requires a two year Lay Ministry Program first with classes held once or twice a month. I am currently in the second year of that.

After that, it’s 3 years of formational study until ordination. We just had 16 men ordained this past June and another class has just begun this year, unfortunately, the timing was off and I was not able to get into it and the next class does not begin until at least 2009 or possibly 2010, so it will be a long way off if I complete the entire thing, maybe by 2013!!!

The Lord will be with me though…

 

[Brendan]

Thanks for sharing. Will they let you resume where you were
with your original group because your taking classes?

No, my original class will probably be Ordained when I resume int he program.

Instead of 2 classes a semester, I’m only going to take 1. It will still mean 3 years of formation afterward, but it will be an easier 3 years

 

[Brendan]

Keep in mind that training for the diaconate is not the same in all the dioceses. It’s unfortunate. My diocese was very rigorous. Professors from Holy Cross taught, theology, scripture, church history, morality, etc.

There was a new Directory for the Formation of Permanent Deacons that was released by the USCCB in reponse to Vatican norms issued.

usccb.org/deacon/DeaconDirectory.pdf

So most diocese should be coming into compliance with what you (and I ) have experienced.

We have our course work at Sacred Heart Major Seminary, and take may of our classes with the seminarians, so the Philosophy, Theology and Scripture classes are much the same as those studying for presbyterial ordination.

 

[Brendan]

Keep in mind that training for the diaconate is not the same in all the dioceses. It’s unfortunate. My diocese was very rigorous. Professors from Holy Cross taught, theology, scripture, church history, morality, etc.

There was a new Directory for the Formation of Permanent Deacons that was released by the USCCB in reponse to Vatican norms issued.

So most diocese should be coming into compliance with what you (and I ) have experienced.

We have our course work at Sacred Heart Major Seminary, and take may of our classes with the seminarians, so the Philosophy, Theology and Scripture classes are much the same as those studying for presbyterial ordination.

 

[Micael]

In the Archdiocese of Washington, these are the base requirements for starting the formation process:

• Age: 30-62 at time of application.
• Status: A Roman Catholic, married or single, of sound moral character, mature faith and possessing a sense of vocation to service.
• Family: If married, a partner in a stable marriage.
• Has actively taken part in parish life.
• Recommendation of his pastor.

When you state "Status: Roman Catholic

I suppose you mean Catholic “latin rite” or are there no deacons in Eastern Catholicism (ie. Maronite, Byzantine, Melkite and other “non-latin” Catholics)?

Thanks

PS: You know we Catholics have really got to get rid of this “Roman” term. It was an invention of non-catholics, used pegoratively, and we still can not get it. Somehow, we think it implies the center of Catholic govermement. However, we must remember Rome is simply a geographic center, but otherwise has little if any significant meaning to the faith. If that were the case, should have Catholics changed their title to Frano Catholicism when the center of Catholicism was temporarily moved to Avignon, France during 1309-1377. That pretty much sets the point. I am Catholic, not Roman in any way. I am of the Western or Latin rite, but to imply that the Latin rite should define the entire Church is absurd, unjust, and simply improper. Catholicism is that, Universality, it is comprised of “two lungs” as is sometimes refered. Thus, lets remind the world that the Universal Church founded by Christ is truly that a universal church, with rites (subdivisions) that expand the Globe. A Universal Church of the one and only Universal God. Not a Roman Universal Church…thats an oxymoron!

 

[Marauder]

When you state "Status: Roman Catholic

I suppose you mean Catholic “latin rite” or are there no deacons in Eastern Catholicism (ie. Maronite, Byzantine, Melkite and other “non-latin” Catholics)?

Thanks

Those words were not my own, they were directly off the Archdiocese of Washington web page for deacon formation. I just did the cut and paste. Also I assume when they are talking about becoming a deacon in the Archdiocese of Washington they are only talking about latin rite deacons because if you want to become a deacon in another rite you probably have to go through the diocese associated with that rite. They aren’t saying that there are not deacons in other rites.

 

[Mattapoisett64]

When you state "Status: Roman Catholic

I suppose you mean Catholic “latin rite” or are there no deacons in Eastern Catholicism (ie. Maronite, Byzantine, Melkite and other “non-latin” Catholics)?

I believe there are deacons in all the Eastern Rites, but I believe their roles - at least their liturgical / sacramental roles - may be different from Latin Rite deacons. I know a Maronite deacon (who was previously a sub-deacon, which has been supressed in the Latin Rite) , and unlike Latin Rite deacons, he does not baptize and cannot be the official witness at weddings. I believe he does proclaim the Gospel and preach, however. Of course, the primary diaconal ministry is service, and he is very active in that area.

 

[Brendan]

When you state "Status: Roman Catholic

I suppose you mean Catholic “latin rite” or are there no deacons in Eastern Catholicism (ie. Maronite, Byzantine, Melkite and other “non-latin” Catholics)?

It would mean the Latin Church (which is a seperate term from Rite, server Catholic Churches use the same Rite).

A Latin Bishop is prohibited by Canon Law from Ordaining a member of another *sui juris *Church without express permission from the Holy See.

Thus the requirement that the applicant be a Latin\Roman

 

[JimR-OCDS]

There was a new Directory for the Formation of Permanent Deacons that was released by the USCCB in reponse to Vatican norms issued.

usccb.org/deacon/DeaconDirectory.pdf

So most diocese should be coming into compliance with what you (and I ) have experienced.

We have our course work at Sacred Heart Major Seminary, and take may of our classes with the seminarians, so the Philosophy, Theology and Scripture classes are much the same as those studying for presbyterial ordination.

The two priest who were in charge of the diaconate for our diocese, were part of the team that put that document together, for the USCCB.

Jim

 

[Gilbert_Keith]

I have seen the position to which a candidate is drawn variously spelled as “deaconate” and “diaconate.” Is one of these incorrect, or are both accepted depending on the national or local tradition?

 

[Gilbert_Keith]

In reply to the question of this thread:

"Will Permanant Deacons make a big impact?"

**They already have. **

In 1965 there were 35,925 diocesan priests nationwide. Today there are 28,299. That a decline of well over 7,000 priests while the Catholic population grew from 45.6 million to 64 miilion during the same period.

**For those seven thousand-plus priests missing we have 14, 794 deacons that did not exist in 1965. **

Evidently the Church saw this coming long before it came and knew how to make up for its losses … at least in part.

 

[Mattapoisett64]

I have seen the position to which a candidate is drawn variously spelled as “deaconate” and “diaconate.” Is one of these incorrect, or are both accepted depending on the national or local tradition?

From everything I’ve seen, “deacon” is the person / title / position, and “diaconate” is the state / order. I don’t think “deaconate” is a real word.

 

[gitsch]

In reply to the question of this thread:

"Will Permanant Deacons make a big impact?"

**They already have. **

In 1965 there were 35,925 diocesan priests nationwide. Today there are 28,299. That a decline of well over 7,000 priests while the Catholic population grew from 45.6 million to 64 miilion during the same period.

**For those seven thousand-plus priests missing we have 14, 794 deacons that did not exist in 1965. **

Evidently the Church saw this coming long before it came and knew how to make up for its losses … at least in part.

Holy smokes! Almost 15,000 Deacons, I had no idea.

Thanks for the update.

 

[gitsch]

Keep in mind that training for the diaconate is not the same in all the dioceses. It’s unfortunate. My diocese was very rigorous. Professors from Holy Cross taught, theology, scripture, church history, morality, etc. The guys who stayed with the program, worked their tails off. Only 4 out of the original 25 who started the discernment program, were ordained. of the 4, two were retired, one was a teacher, and the other owned his own business where he could make his own hours.

Many complained that the program was too difficult, and it wasn’t this difficult in the past. The deacon in our parish only had to go for 3 years of training, and it was not as rigorous. It may change because the director of the program, was removed for reasons I won’t get into. From what I understand, now the program is run by ordained deacons, with oversight from the director of vocations for the diocese. These deacons have a better sense of what sacrifices a married man must make to get through the training, and then serve in the ministry.

However, your diocese may be different. The state of NH, (I live in MA) is not as difficult as here. I believe they have a 3 year program and it’s once a week.

Check with your local diocesan office.

Jim

My Archdioces is a total of 4 years. The first year is an aspiracy year. During the first year they meet 1 day a month and attend 1 weekend retreat.

 

[Gilbert_Keith]

Mattapoisett

From everything I’ve seen, “deacon” is the person / title / position, and “diaconate” is the state / order. I don’t think “deaconate” is a real word.

Thanks. I didn’t think it was either, but I keep seeing it spelled different ways at different web sites.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

One thing I wanted to say about the men who serve as deacons in my diocese. When I was in discernment, they had groups of ordained deacons come into talk to us about being a deacon.

All of them, came across as holy men. Especially impressive, were the deacons assigned to special ministries, such as prison ministry, hospital ministry and hospice. These men were very humble and very dedicated to serving God and his Church.

Also, the wive’s of the deacons came in to speak with us. They too were very dedicated, and sacrifice a lot for their husband’s ministry.

The deacon we had serving in our parish, gave homilies that I’ve yet to hear from a diocesan priest. His spirituality was such, that no diocesan priest I have ever met, could match. Unfortunately, he moved to North Carolina, and some diocese down there are now the beneficiaries.

I think decaons play an importan role in the Church. I think they’re an example of what a married priesthood would be like, which of course is another subject.

Jim

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

One thing I wanted to say about the men who serve as deacons in my diocese. When I was in discernment, they had groups of ordained deacons come into talk to us about being a deacon.

All of them, came across as holy men. Especially impressive, were the deacons assigned to special ministries, such as prison ministry, hospital ministry and hospice. These men were very humble and very dedicated to serving God and his Church.

Also, the wive’s of the deacons came in to speak with us. They too were very dedicated, and sacrifice a lot for their husband’s ministry.

The deacon we had serving in our parish, gave homilies that I’ve yet to hear from a diocesan priest. His spirituality was such, that no diocesan priest I have ever met, could match. Unfortunately, he moved to North Carolina, and some diocese down there are now the beneficiaries.

I think decaons play an importan role in the Church. I think they’re an example of what a married priesthood would be like, which of course is another subject.

Jim

I suspect that’s a bit of an illusion.
I don’t deny for one minute that the deacon you mentioned was very committed, spiritual, humble and so forth.

But a celibate man commits full time to his ministry, whilst for a married man it is something he gives part of his energy to. Just as a boyfriend is much more generous, charming, witty, sociable etc than a husband, because the boyfriend only has to keep it it for a couple of hours on the date, whilst for the husband the situation is permanent, you are probably seeing the best part of the deacon’s efforts.

Comparisons to priests are thus unfair. The deacon can contribute in a very positive way to the priest’s ministry, for instance by giving the homily, but he couldn’t take over from him.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

But a celibate man commits full time to his ministry, whilst for a married man it is something he gives part of his energy to. Just as a boyfriend is much more generous, charming, witty, sociable etc than a husband, because the boyfriend only has to keep it it for a couple of hours on the date, whilst for the husband the situation is permanent, you are probably seeing the best part of the deacon’s efforts.

Priest are suppose to be more committed, but from my experience, that isn’t the case.

Most deacons don’t get paid. The hours they put into service of the church, are in addition to the hours they must put into their jobs and families. Try volunteering 15-20 hours a week to a cause, and see how much time you have for yourself and family.

Yes, a priest has the freedom to put in full-time service, but his ministry is all he has to concern himself with. I’ve rarely seen a priest put in extra hours into his ministry. Their extra hours usually involve recreation of some sort, a thing deacons don’t have very much of.

Comparisons to priests are thus unfair. The deacon can contribute in a very positive way to the priest’s ministry, for instance by giving the homily, but he couldn’t take over from him.

I’m not suggesting that a deacon should take over for a priest. Just pointing out what the deacons that I know are doing.

Believe me, being a deacon is a tough and thankless job.
It takes a special person to be one and it takes a special woman to be a deacon’s wife.

Jim