Will Pope Benedict reform the liturgy?

[thistle]

the phoenix:

Dear thistle,

Nice to meet you. * smiles good greetings *

Your small minority has just gotten one person larger. I’m a middle-aged American who LOVES the indult Latin Mass. Of course whether the Mass is conducted in English or Latin, it’s the same Truly Present Jesus Christ we receive in the Holy Eucharist. That said, I just personally find the Latin Mass far more **beautiful, majestic, spiritual, satisfying, deep, rich, magnificent, praise-laden, and drawing me closer into the Loving Presence of God !!! **
~~ the phoenix

Nice to meet you too. I’m 57 and converted from the Methodist Church to the Catholic Church in the early 1990’s so all I have known is the NO Mass and with reference to this Mass and apart from Latin I could use your last sentence to describe how I feel.
Let me just say that I am not against the TLM. I would not be unhappy if people had the choice of Mass to attend. What I don’t like is (and I know you haven’t said this - I’m referring to other posters in these forums) the extreme supporters of the TLM who consider the NO itself as an abuse and want the TLM back and the NO scrapped. They are verging on disobedience to the Church but don’t want to go as far as SSPX.
Abuses in TLM or NO should not be allowed ( and these should be brought to the attention of the appropriate authorities) but the Church says the NO is now THE Mass so I don’t know why everyone won’t simply accept that. As faithful Catholics we should fully accept what the Church teaches (dogma, discipline, form etc).

 

[Dr.Bombay]

bear06:

Well then, would you think that it would be correct to say that Pope is sometimes inspired by the Holy Spirit in matters of discipline? I’m guessing the answer would be yes. With that in mind, how are we to know when this is if we are not specifically told by the Pope. I guess what I am asking is does it really matter? If you look at Pastor Aeternus, it shows that we are supposed to obey *and * *submit * to the pope in matters of faith and morals as well as disciplines. Of course you know this. It doesn’t say obey and submit if you think he’s inspired by the Holy Spirit or do not follow if you think he’s not. It doesn’t even say don’t submit if we don’t think it’s in the best interest of hte Church.

How should I know when the Holy Spirit inspires the Pope? As much as I’ve asked, the Spirit’s declined to share that knowledge with me. Along with a lot of other things I’ve asked for.

I’ve never claimed we shouldn’t submit and obey. Questioning the prudence of disciplinary changes while at the same time submitting to them is perfectly acceptable. It seems your beef is with Cardinal Ratzinger who, before his recent promotion, spent quite a bit of time questioning a few (not all) of the post-Conciliar reforms. Maybe he needs to read Pastor Aeternus.

 

[bear06]

Dr. Bombay:

How should I know when the Holy Spirit inspires the Pope? As much as I’ve asked, the Spirit’s declined to share that knowledge with me. Along with a lot of other things I’ve asked for.

I’ve never claimed we shouldn’t submit and obey. Questioning the prudence of disciplinary changes while at the same time submitting to them is perfectly acceptable. It seems your beef is with Cardinal Ratzinger who, before his recent promotion, spent quite a bit of time questioning a few (not all) of the post-Conciliar reforms. Maybe he needs to read Pastor Aeternus.

I didn’t say that you claimed that. Yikes! If you notice, I even said that you knew that. I was merely making this clarification because you and I both know that there are many people here who do not submit because they do not feel that things are inspired by the Holy Spirit. Also, Cardinal Ratzinger was most concerned with what people did rather than what was called for.

 

[the_phoenix]

Dear thistle,

Respectfully, since you say “so far all I have known is the NO Mass” … you might like to try attending a Latin Mass … one approved by the Church of course, … before you simply dismiss it. You may find your love for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass grow even more.

I share your belief that the SSPX has gone too far, to the point where they are no longer in communion with Rome. It would just be a shame if you let a schismatic group prejudice you against attending a perfectly valid Latin Mass … which, when it is an indult Mass celebrated with full authorization from the Vatican, is every bit as much “THE MASS” as a valid Novus Ordo Mass.

~~ the phoenix

 

[thistle]

the phoenix:

Dear thistle,

Respectfully, since you say “so far all I have known is the NO Mass” … you might like to try attending a Latin Mass … one approved by the Church of course, … before you simply dismiss it. You may find your love for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass grow even more.

I share your belief that the SSPX has gone too far, to the point where they are no longer in communion with Rome. It would just be a shame if you let a schismatic group prejudice you against attending a perfectly valid Latin Mass … which, when it is an indult Mass celebrated with full authorization from the Vatican, is every bit as much “THE MASS” as a valid Novus Ordo Mass.

~~ the phoenix

I have nothing against the Latin Mass. In my earlier comments I said would not be unhappy if people had a choice of Masses. I wouldn’t mind attending a Latin Mass to see what it is like but I live in the Philippines and I’m not aware of any Latin Masses in this country.

 

[palmas85]

thistle:

I have nothing against the Latin Mass. In my earlier comments I said would not be unhappy if people had a choice of Masses. I wouldn’t mind attending a Latin Mass to see what it is like but I live in the Philippines and I’m not aware of any Latin Masses in this country.

Traditional Latin Masses(Tridentine) in the Philippines

Manila

Our Lady of Victories Church

2 Cannon Rd.,

New Manila Quezon City 1112

Philippines

Tel: [63] (2) 725-5926 or [63] (2) 413-1978

Fax: [63] (2) 412-7389

E-mail: vgriego@excite.com

Resident Priests: Fr. Daniel Couture (District Superior) Fr. Thomas Onoda (Secretary) Fr. Vicente Griego Fr. Benoît Wailliez Fr. Joven Soliman Fr. Santiago Hughes Fr. Marie-Dominique O.P.

Weekly Mass Schedule: Sunday: 9:00am (Missa Cantata); 11:00am & 6:00pm (Low Mass) Mon.- Sat: 7:15 am; 6:30 Wed: Novena to O.L.of Perpetual help (after 6:30 Mass)

Confessions Sunday:during Masses/ Wed. 6:30 pm Friday and Saturday:7:15 am & 6:30 pm

For more details Email : vgriego@excite.com

Iloilo

Chapel of Our Lady of Consolation and Saint Joseph 70 Javellana St. Jaro, Iloilo City Philippines Tel. +63-33-329-5468

Contact Persons: Mr. & Mrs. Dan Viray

Mass Schedule: Every Sunday: Low Mass at 8:30 am and Sung Mass at 10:15 am

Also Every First Friday of the Month: Low Mass at 6:00 pm

Every Saturday : Low Mass at 5:30 pm

SANTA BARBARA, ILOILO

Santa Barbara, Iloilo St. Bernard Pre-Seminary

Brgy Daga, Santa Barbara, Iloilo,

Tel: 0917 40 40 855

Weekly Mass Schedule

Sunday: 10:15am (Missa Cantata); 8:30am (Low Mass) Saturday: 5:30pm First Fridays: 6:00pm (Low Mass, followed by a holy hour)

Resident Priests: Fr. Benoit Wailliez (Vocations Director) Fr Joven Soliman

For details email : wailliez@mozcom.com

General Santos City, Mindanao

Chapel of St. James Babate’s Residence,

Tiongson Street (in front of Lagao Elementary School)

9500 General Santos City

Tel: (63) (33) 552-2946 Contact: Ma. Magdalena Yumang

Mass Schedule 2nd Sunday of the month at 5:00 pm and following Monday at 6:00 am.

Marbel, Mindanao

St. Michael’s Chapel Marbel

Upper Paredez Marbel, South Cotabato

Tel: (63) (83) 288 3305 (chapel) Tel: (63) (83) 288 2126 (house)

Mass Schedule Saturday at 6:00 pm before the 2nd Sunday of the month, and second Sunday of the month at 9:00 am.

Contact Person: Mrs. Ghela

Mass Schedule: Saturday at 6:00 pm before the 2nd Sunday of the month, and

2nd Sunday of the month at 9:00 am

Davao, Mindanao

Nia Compound

Bolton Street

Davoa City

Tel: (63) (082) 563-1081 contact: Mr. Amiano Y. Sayon

Mass Schedule Friday at 7:00 pm and Saturday at 8:00 am before the 2nd Sunday of the month.

Cebu

15 Aqua Marine St.

St. Michael Village Banilad,

Cebu City Philippines

Tel: (63) (032) 495 4928

Contact: Mr. Julieto Robusto or Maritess Tubio

Tel. +63-32-34-66-02 +63-32-40-60-24 +63-32-232-30-01

Mass Schedule 1st Sunday at 5:00pm and following Monday at 6:00am.

Tagbilaran, Bohol

Tel: (63) (038) 235 3582

Contact: Mrs. F. Lumod

Mass Schedule Friday & Saturday before 1st Sunday and 2nd Sunday at 9:00am.

Leyte & Butan

Occasionally only, contact: sspx@pacific.net.sg for more details

Baguio

Innsbruck Condominium,

Innsbruck, Baguio City.

Contact person: Mr. Alvin Verzosa (074) 444 - 2550

Mass Schedule Every 4th weekend, 9:00 am Sunday Mass

There you are, .Looks like a good selection, No excuse now have fun

 

[thistle]

palmas85:

Traditional Latin Masses(Tridentine) in the Philippines

Manila

Our Lady of Victories Church

2 Cannon Rd.,

New Manila Quezon City 1112

Philippines

Tel: [63] (2) 725-5926 or [63] (2) 413-1978

Fax: [63] (2) 412-7389

E-mail: vgriego@excite.com

Resident Priests: Fr. Daniel Couture (District Superior) Fr. Thomas Onoda (Secretary) Fr. Vicente Griego Fr. Benoît Wailliez Fr. Joven Soliman Fr. Santiago Hughes Fr. Marie-Dominique O.P.

Weekly Mass Schedule: Sunday: 9:00am (Missa Cantata); 11:00am & 6:00pm (Low Mass) Mon.- Sat: 7:15 am; 6:30 Wed: Novena to O.L.of Perpetual help (after 6:30 Mass)

Confessions Sunday:during Masses/ Wed. 6:30 pm Friday and Saturday:7:15 am & 6:30 pm

For more details Email : vgriego@excite.com

Iloilo

Chapel of Our Lady of Consolation and Saint Joseph 70 Javellana St. Jaro, Iloilo City Philippines Tel. +63-33-329-5468

Contact Persons: Mr. & Mrs. Dan Viray

Mass Schedule: Every Sunday: Low Mass at 8:30 am and Sung Mass at 10:15 am

Also Every First Friday of the Month: Low Mass at 6:00 pm

Every Saturday : Low Mass at 5:30 pm

SANTA BARBARA, ILOILO

Santa Barbara, Iloilo St. Bernard Pre-Seminary

Brgy Daga, Santa Barbara, Iloilo,

Tel: 0917 40 40 855

Weekly Mass Schedule

Sunday: 10:15am (Missa Cantata); 8:30am (Low Mass) Saturday: 5:30pm First Fridays: 6:00pm (Low Mass, followed by a holy hour)

Resident Priests: Fr. Benoit Wailliez (Vocations Director) Fr Joven Soliman

For details email : wailliez@mozcom.com

General Santos City, Mindanao

Chapel of St. James Babate’s Residence,

Tiongson Street (in front of Lagao Elementary School)

9500 General Santos City

Tel: (63) (33) 552-2946 Contact: Ma. Magdalena Yumang

Mass Schedule 2nd Sunday of the month at 5:00 pm and following Monday at 6:00 am.

Marbel, Mindanao

St. Michael’s Chapel Marbel

Upper Paredez Marbel, South Cotabato

Tel: (63) (83) 288 3305 (chapel) Tel: (63) (83) 288 2126 (house)

Mass Schedule Saturday at 6:00 pm before the 2nd Sunday of the month, and second Sunday of the month at 9:00 am.

Contact Person: Mrs. Ghela

Mass Schedule: Saturday at 6:00 pm before the 2nd Sunday of the month, and

2nd Sunday of the month at 9:00 am

Davao, Mindanao

Nia Compound

Bolton Street

Davoa City

Tel: (63) (082) 563-1081 contact: Mr. Amiano Y. Sayon

Mass Schedule Friday at 7:00 pm and Saturday at 8:00 am before the 2nd Sunday of the month.

Cebu

15 Aqua Marine St.

St. Michael Village Banilad,

Cebu City Philippines

Tel: (63) (032) 495 4928

Contact: Mr. Julieto Robusto or Maritess Tubio

Tel. +63-32-34-66-02 +63-32-40-60-24 +63-32-232-30-01

Mass Schedule 1st Sunday at 5:00pm and following Monday at 6:00am.

Tagbilaran, Bohol

Tel: (63) (038) 235 3582

Contact: Mrs. F. Lumod

Mass Schedule Friday & Saturday before 1st Sunday and 2nd Sunday at 9:00am.

Leyte & Butan

Occasionally only, contact: sspx@pacific.net.sg for more details

Baguio

Innsbruck Condominium,

Innsbruck, Baguio City.

Contact person: Mr. Alvin Verzosa (074) 444 - 2550

Mass Schedule Every 4th weekend, 9:00 am Sunday Mass

There you are, .Looks like a good selection, No excuse now have fun

Thanks. Although I live in Manila, I live in Las Pinas which is some way from Quezon City. QC would be a round trip of 4 hours because of the traffic.
It means I have to weigh up a round trip from my house to my local church of 10 minutes against 4 hours for QC and I would have to get somebody prepared to drive me there and back. I’ll really have to think about that one but thanks agin for the info.

 

[mcliffor]

A friend of mine who works at the cathedral here in Phillie explained it to me like this:

JPII was very concerned with his image from the start. He wanted people to see him as a smiling, waving man of the people. I think he succeeded in this, since the pictures that are most often seem aren’t pictures of him saying mass, but pictures of him kidding children and that annoying picture of the girl who ran past the guards at WYD to hug him. (I’d rather she kissed his ring) He didn’t want to be an authoritarian figure when he didn’t have to be, and he didn’t want the figure of the pope to be one either. But from the start, in order to maintain this image, he had to have his curia do the administrative tasks for him so that he could travel all over the place. Since 1978, the curia has gained a lot of power, so that what was part of the pope’s job before JPII is now something the curia does. They aren’t going to surrender this power easily, which means even if Benedict DID want a universal indult or liturgical reforms, he couldn’t just do it. He would have to fight the curia if he met any opposition.

This made sense to me. I don’t see why else a pope who felt so strongly the way Cardinal Ratzinger did about the negative reforms since VII wouldn’t make the liturgy his priority from day 1.

 

[thistle]

mcliffor:

I don’t see why else a pope who felt so strongly the way Cardinal Ratzinger did about the negative reforms since VII wouldn’t make the liturgy his priority from day 1.

Could it be that it is only in the minds of ultra traditionalists the Liturgy needs reforming but in actual fact it does not need any reform??!! Therefore there is no need for the Pope to do anything about it, which he hasn’t, so the traditionalists are making up stories now about his inaction.

 

[BillyT92679]

mcliffor:

A friend of mine who works at the cathedral here in Phillie explained it to me like this:

JPII was very concerned with his image from the start. He wanted people to see him as a smiling, waving man of the people. I think he succeeded in this, since the pictures that are most often seem aren’t pictures of him saying mass, but pictures of him kidding children and that annoying picture of the girl who ran past the guards at WYD to hug him. (I’d rather she kissed his ring) He didn’t want to be an authoritarian figure when he didn’t have to be, and he didn’t want the figure of the pope to be one either. But from the start, in order to maintain this image, he had to have his curia do the administrative tasks for him so that he could travel all over the place. Since 1978, the curia has gained a lot of power, so that what was part of the pope’s job before JPII is now something the curia does. They aren’t going to surrender this power easily, which means even if Benedict DID want a universal indult or liturgical reforms, he couldn’t just do it. He would have to fight the curia if he met any opposition.

This made sense to me. I don’t see why else a pope who felt so strongly the way Cardinal Ratzinger did about the negative reforms since VII wouldn’t make the liturgy his priority from day 1.

The Curia is always at the behest of the Holy Father… he can remove Cardinals from posts, reassign them, do whatever he wants.
But also, the Roman Curia has had a lot of power well before JPII or Vatican II as well. You think the Curia was powerful under John Paul The Great? There are folks who remember the immense power and control it had under Pius XII. That’s one of the biggest reasons we had Vatican II, to look at the role of the Episcopacy relative to Rome.

 

[mcliffor]

thistle:

Could it be that it is only in the minds of ultra traditionalists the Liturgy needs reforming but in actual fact it does not need any reform??!! Therefore there is no need for the Pope to do anything about it, which he hasn’t, so the traditionalists are making up stories now about his inaction.

Well, I might agree with you, except that one of those “ultra-traditionalists” wrote a book about how much the liturgy needs reform, and then he became the pope. I don’t think this is something coming from the far right, unless you would call the Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger an ultra-traditionalist.

 

[palmas85]

thistle:

Thanks. Although I live in Manila, I live in Las Pinas which is some way from Quezon City. QC would be a round trip of 4 hours because of the traffic.
It means I have to weigh up a round trip from my house to my local church of 10 minutes against 4 hours for QC and I would have to get somebody prepared to drive me there and back. I’ll really have to think about that one but thanks agin for the info.

No problem. I really didn’t think that you would go anyway. Most times and in most places these Masses are not allowed to be advertised so a lot of people just hear about them word of mouth Funny isn’t it, they don’t want them advertised, well anyway, in looking at the list I see one of them is SSPX. I guess that they are everywhere.

 

[palmas85]

thistle:

Could it be that it is only in the minds of ultra traditionalists the Liturgy needs reforming but in actual fact it does not need any reform??!! Therefore there is no need for the Pope to do anything about it, which he hasn’t, so the traditionalists are making up stories now about his inaction.

I don’t know why the Holy Father hasn’t made good on some things that he indicated in his writings he would like to do as far as liturgical reform I do believe that the Vatican Beaurocracy has a lot to do with the inaction. I am not surprised that he has not done anything. nor do I really expect him to. Of course he could just be waiting for the right time. Lets hope so anyway. But if he ever does do anything you can bet it will be a long slow process and met with a lot of resistance.

 

[James0235]

thistle:

Could it be that it is only in the minds of ultra traditionalists the Liturgy needs reforming but in actual fact it does not need any reform??!! Therefore there is no need for the Pope to do anything about it, which he hasn’t, so the traditionalists are making up stories now about his inaction.

Wow! This is the first time I have ever heard anyone refer to Pope Bendedict as an ultra traditionalist.

James

 

[oat_soda]

This made sense to me. I don’t see why else a pope who felt so strongly the way Cardinal Ratzinger did about the negative reforms since VII wouldn’t make the liturgy his priority from day 1.

if you read carefully what he has said about reforming the liturgy or what cardinal arinze has said, you will see that while he may have his opinions, he never intended to make any drastic changes.

a good example is the ad orientem position which he seemed so adamant of. at WYD, or masses outside st. peters, he still chooses to face the people. while he has said a return to sharing a common orientation with the people can be a help, but he has also said that any drastic change would be cause more harm than good and may confuse the faithful. this same compromising tone can be heard comming from arinze as well.

usually they will say something like sacred music is important and that sometimes a guitar and piano may not be suitable, but they also say sometimes they are. i wish they would just take a stand on something and enforce some dicscipline, even if it tends to be a little legalistic. but i’m not the pope and we’ll just have to wait and see.

 

[bear06]

A friend of mine who works at the cathedral here in Phillie explained it to me like this:

…and your friend new JPII well? So many people can read so many minds. Wish I had that gift. ~sigh.

 

[bear06]

oat soda:

if you read carefully what he has said about reforming the liturgy or what cardinal arinze has said, you will see that while he may have his opinions, he never intended to make any drastic changes.

a good example is the ad orientem position which he seemed so adamant of. at WYD, or masses outside st. peters, he still chooses to face the people. while he has said a return to sharing a common orientation with the people can be a help, but he has also said that any drastic change would be cause more harm than good and may confuse the faithful. this same compromising tone can be heard comming from arinze as well.

usually they will say something like sacred music is important and that sometimes a guitar and piano may not be suitable, but they also say sometimes they are. i wish they would just take a stand on something and enforce some dicscipline, even if it tends to be a little legalistic. but i’m not the pope and we’ll just have to wait and see.

Yes, this is true. I fear that some hope that the Novus Ordo will just be scrapped instead of reformed. I doubt that’s going to happen from what I’ve been told by priests who know the Holy Father well.

 

[Orionthehunter]

palmas85:

I don’t know why the Holy Father hasn’t made good on some things that he indicated in his writings he would like to do as far as liturgical reform I do believe that the Vatican Beaurocracy has a lot to do with the inaction. I am not surprised that he has not done anything. nor do I really expect him to. Of course he could just be waiting for the right time. Lets hope so anyway. But if he ever does do anything you can bet it will be a long slow process and met with a lot of resistance.

I would be very disappointed if Pope Benedict didn’t have a single change of heart or idea from his Pre-Pope days. One of the promises of the Church is that the chrism of being Pope changes one and brings them in greater communion with the Holy Spirit. If Pope Benedict was exactly the same person as Joseph Ratzinger, the chrism would be symbolic rather than substantive.

Personally, I will trust Pope Benedict to do his best to discern the will of the Holy Spirit and discern what needs to be changed or not changed. I will accept equally what he does and doesn’t do regarding the liturgy as I’m not graced by the chrism of the See of Rome.

Also, I trust that the Holy Spirit will work even among and through those who don’t understand or support any change or non-change made by Pope Benedict.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

mcliffor:

A friend of mine who works at the cathedral here in Phillie explained it to me like this:

JPII was very concerned with his image from the start. He wanted people to see him as a smiling, waving man of the people. I think he succeeded in this, since the pictures that are most often seem aren’t pictures of him saying mass, but pictures of him kidding children and that annoying picture of the girl who ran past the guards at WYD to hug him. (I’d rather she kissed his ring) He didn’t want to be an authoritarian figure when he didn’t have to be, and he didn’t want the figure of the pope to be one either. But from the start, in order to maintain this image, he had to have his curia do the administrative tasks for him so that he could travel all over the place. Since 1978, the curia has gained a lot of power, so that what was part of the pope’s job before JPII is now something the curia does. They aren’t going to surrender this power easily, which means even if Benedict DID want a universal indult or liturgical reforms, he couldn’t just do it. He would have to fight the curia if he met any opposition.

This made sense to me. I don’t see why else a pope who felt so strongly the way Cardinal Ratzinger did about the negative reforms since VII wouldn’t make the liturgy his priority from day 1.

This tired old saw! “John Paul cared about style than substance.” This from the man who swatted down the idea of female ordination, faced a crowd of manipulated Marxists in Central America and bascially told them to shut their pie holes, etc, fought the culture of death, and suffered visibly before our eyes. If you’ve seen more photos of him kissing babies than celebrating Mass, then you and I aren’t looking at the same photos. And the girl who hugged him instead of kissing his ring: if it didn’t bother him, why does it bother anyone else? I think it’s some of the “traditionalists” who are more concerned with style than substance.

As for the Curia, is your friend at the Cathedral a Catholic? Benedict XVI was a part of that Curia, that Curia had cardinals who helped elect him, and when he was elected, they having all effectively AND legally been fired upon the death of Pope John Paul II, HE was the one who reappointed them. ALL OF THEM. I doubt there’s many there that he doesn’t want there.

I think the Holy Father thinks the liturgy needs to be reformed. It’s just possible, however, that he doesn’t think it needs to be reformed along the lines of that some people would like to see.

 

[mcliffor]

JKirkLVNV:

This tired old saw! “John Paul cared about style than substance.” This from the man who swatted down the idea of female ordination, faced a crowd of manipulated Marxists in Central America and bascially told them to shut their pie holes, etc, fought the culture of death, and suffered visibly before our eyes. If you’ve seen more photos of him kissing babies than celebrating Mass, then you and I aren’t looking at the same photos. And the girl who hugged him instead of kissing his ring: if it didn’t bother him, why does it bother anyone else? I think it’s some of the “traditionalists” who are more concerned with style than substance.

As for the Curia, is your friend at the Cathedral a Catholic? Benedict XVI was a part of that Curia, that Curia had cardinals who helped elect him, and when he was elected, they having all effectively AND legally been fired upon the death of Pope John Paul II, HE was the one who reappointed them. ALL OF THEM. I doubt there’s many there that he doesn’t want there.

I think the Holy Father thinks the liturgy needs to be reformed. It’s just possible, however, that he doesn’t think it needs to be reformed along the lines of that some people would like to see.

I know there are other photos, but the public wants to remember him as a man of the people and not for his condemnation of heresy. I think he was more concerned with presenting himself as a man of the people than other popes in the past were. Do a google image search for JPII, and you might see what I’m talking about.

Sure, JPII didn’t mind being hugged or being the center of a pep rally of 1,000,000 young people, but some people I’m sure, recognizing the pope’s great authority and service to the Church, would find it innapropriate to greet him as you would a relative. A more appropriate gesture for the pope, or any prelate, would be a genuflection and a kiss of the ring. That is why this action is indulgenced. I would hope that if that girl saw St. Peter she wouldn’t hug him that way, but then again, who knows.