Will Protestants be surprised when Jesus judges them according to their deeds?

[JonNC]

And you didn’t go with it. Sounds like private interpretation to me.

But if I had become Catholic, it wouldn’t have been private interpretation? lol

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

And you still don’t think that Protestants believe in private interpretation of Scripture alone?

Which Protestants? …

Exactly…

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

And you didn’t go with it. Sounds like private interpretation to me.

But if I had become Catholic, it wouldn’t have been private interpretation? lol

No. Because at the point you become Catholic, you must rely upon the Teaching of Jesus Christ passed down by His Church.

Big difference. Maybe someday you’ll understand.

 

[ATraveller]

It’s probably better to start a new thread on this in Non-Catholic Religions.

 

[spiritualsoldier]

The main problem with Calvinism is that its concept of total depravity is complete nonsense that refutes the preaching of Jesus. Jesus commanded his followers to love as He loved (John 13:34). Here, Jesus makes clear to us that we are capable of loving as He loved. Indeed, Jesus told his followers “if you love me you will do what I command.”(John 14:15). Therefore, mankind is not totally depraved, and it logically follows that Calvinism is nonsense.

 

[ltwin]

I"m not a Calvinist, but you don’t really understand the concept. As explained by a Calvinist:

In the Reformed tradition, total depravity does not mean utter depravity. We often use the term total as a synonym for utter or for completely, so the notion of total depravity conjures up the idea that every human being is as bad as that person could possibly be. You might think of an archfiend of history such as Adolf Hitler and say there was absolutely no redeeming virtue in the man, but I suspect that he had some affection for his mother. As wicked as Hitler was, we can still conceive of ways in which he could have been even more wicked than he actually was. So the idea of total in total depravity doesn’t mean that all human beings are as wicked as they can possibly be. It means that the fall was so serious that it affects the whole person. The fallenness that captures and grips our human nature affects our bodies; that’s why we become ill and die. It affects our minds and our thinking; we still have the capacity to think, but the Bible says the mind has become darkened and weakened. The will of man is no longer in its pristine state of moral power. The will, according to the New Testament, is now in bondage. We are enslaved to the evil impulses and desires of our hearts. The body, the mind, the will, the spirit—indeed, the whole person—have been infected by the power of sin.

 

[ltwin]

And yes, Jesus does teach us to love as he loves. From a Calvinist point of view, this is possible for those who have been regenerated because as I quoted above from the Westminster Confession:

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it;[21] the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.[22]

Chapter 13, the Confession speaks to the reality of sanctification and growth in grace by the power of the Holy Spirit:

I. They, who are once effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart, and a new spirit created in them, are further sanctified, really and personally, through the virtue of Christ’s death and resurrection,[1] by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them:[2] the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed,[3] and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified;[4] and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces,[5] to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.[6]

II. This sanctification is throughout, in the whole man;[7] yet imperfect in this life, there abiding still some remnants of corruption in every part;[8] whence arises a continual and irreconcilable war, the flesh lusting against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh.[9]

III. In which war, although the remaining corruption, for a time, may much prevail;[10] yet, through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying Spirit of Christ, the regenerate part does overcome;[11] and so, the saints grow in grace,[12] perfecting holiness in the fear of God.[13]

 

[JonNC]

No. Because at the point you become Catholic, you must rely upon the Teaching of Jesus Christ passed down by His Church.

Let’s see:
Jaroslav Pelikan leaves Lutheranism for Orthodoxy = private interpretation.
Richard John Neuhaus Leaves Lutheranism for Roman Catholicism = rely upon the Teaching of Jesus Christ passed down by His Church.

Triumphalist nonsense.

 

[JonNC]

Exactly what?..

 

[De_Maria]

I"m not a Calvinist, but you don’t really understand the concept. As explained by a Calvinist:

In the Reformed tradition, total depravity does not mean utter depravity. We often use the term total as a synonym for utter or for completely, so the notion of total depravity conjures up the idea that every human being is as bad as that person could possibly be. You might think of an archfiend of history such as Adolf Hitler and say there was absolutely no redeeming virtue in the man, but I suspect that he had some affection for his mother. As wicked as Hitler was, we can still conceive of ways in which he could have been even more wicked than he actually was. So the idea of total in total depravity doesn’t mean that all human beings are as wicked as they can possibly be. It means that the fall was so serious that it affects the whole person. The fallenness that captures and grips our human nature affects our bodies; that’s why we become ill and die. It affects our minds and our thinking; we still have the capacity to think, but the Bible says the mind has become darkened and weakened. The will of man is no longer in its pristine state of moral power. The will, according to the New Testament, is now in bondage. We are enslaved to the evil impulses and desires of our hearts. The body, the mind, the will, the spirit—indeed, the whole person—have been infected by the power of sin.

That is self contradicting. Unless he merely means to reiterate the Doctrine of Original Sin, and exaggerating it’s effects, he is essentially saying that every person is thoroughly corrupt. (i.e. The body, the mind, the will, the spirit—indeed, the whole person—have been infected by the power of sin.)

And if he is merely reiterating the Doctrine of Original Sin, why rename it to something that sounds much, much, worse.

 

[De_Maria]

Let’s see:
Jaroslav Pelikan leaves Lutheranism for Orthodoxy = private interpretation.
Richard John Neuhaus Leaves Lutheranism for Roman Catholicism = rely upon the Teaching of Jesus Christ passed down by His Church.

Triumphalist nonsense.

Lol! It’s true whether you like it or not. It is the Protestants who finally see through the cacophony of Protestant shrieking who understand that there is a need to humbly submit to the one Church which Jesus Christ established. It is they who see the blessing that God gave us of one infallible Church. And therefore, they check their pride at the door and leave behind private interpretation. They will no longer have to make up the Christian religion as they go along. It was established by Jesus Christ 2000 years ago and they are satisfied to simply accept it and submit to Christ’s authority.

Amen.

 

[JonNC]

Protestants who finally see through the cacophony of Protestant shrieking who understand that there is a need to humbly submit to the one Church which Jesus Christ established.

I’ve never heard the Protestant shrieking. I was Lutheran most of my life, now continuing Anglican. No shrieking that I recall.

And therefore, they check their pride at the door and leave behind private interpretation.

Actually, your presentation here sounds more prideful than most I’ve heard

 

[De_Maria]

I’ve never heard the Protestant shrieking. I was Lutheran most of my life, now continuing Anglican. No shrieking that I recall.

When you have Lutherans and Anglicans approving of the Satanic doctrines of abortion and homosexual relationships and you don’t hear the shrieking, your ears are being tickled to muffle the sound.

 

[JonNC]

And some Catholics, too. It is indeed sad. But I’ve never listened to the social justice secularism that has infected even the orthodox western Christian communions.
In fact, for those who do not have their heads in a prideful triumphalist cloud, an emerging realignment is occurring within the Universal Church.
As I said, I am continuing Anglican. None of those errors are part of our teaching and practice. You must have missed that, too.

 

[De_Maria]

And some Catholics, too. …

Wasn’t it you who pointed out that we can’t confuse the Teachings of a Church with the teachings of the purported adherents.

As I said, I am continuing Anglican. None of those errors are part of our teaching and practice.
You must have missed that, too.

Hm? If that’s true, I apologize. But I’ve heard that the Anglicans are the worst of all.

In 2003, the first openly gay bishop was consecrated; in 2009, General Convention resolved that God’s call is open to all; in 2012, a provisional rite of blessing for same-gender relationships was authorized, and discrimination against transgender persons in the ordination process was officially prohibited; and in 2015, the canons of the church were changed to make the rite of marriage available to all people, regardless of gender.
LGBTQ – The Episcopal Church

LONDON, May 16, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The Anglican Church is the perfect vehicle for creating a new “gay” Christianity by virtue of the fact that it is the only church that accepts the logical contradiction of asserting both the sanctity of human life and the existence of a right to abortion.
Anglican Acceptance of both Abortion and Sanctity of Life will Allow the Creation of a Gay Church: G | News | LifeSite

So, there’s a misunderstanding, somewhere.

 

[JonNC]

I am not in communion with the C of E. I wouldn’t be, couldn’t be.

 

[De_Maria]

But you’re an Anglican? Are you in communion with the Catholic Church? Our Lady of Walsingham, Houston, TX?

 

[JonNC]

But you’re an Anglican? Are you in communion with the Catholic Church? Our Lady of Walsingham, Houston, TX?

I never said I was in communion with the Catholic Church. This not entirely your fault. It is the fault of the new CAF format for not providing the religious affiliation of members right on the thread.
I am a member of the Anglican Province of America, a continuing Anglican.

https://anglicanprovince.org/about/

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

But you’re an Anglican? Are you in communion with the Catholic Church? Our Lady of Walsingham, Houston, TX?

I never said I was in communion with the Catholic Church.

I never said you did. But you said you couldn’t be C of E. So, I thought I’d ask.

I am a member of the Anglican Province of America, a continuing Anglican.

https://anglicanprovince.org/about/

History

The present structure of the Anglican Province of America (APA) was erected in 1998, constituted by the Diocese of the Eastern United States and the Missionary District of the West. In 2000, the Missionary District of the West became a Diocese in its own right and in the 2008, the Diocese of Mid-America was erected in the central U.S. from the non-geographical Diocese of St. Augustine, which had come into union with the APA in 2004. The history of the APA, however, stretches back to 1968 with the founding of the American Episcopal Church (AEC) in response to the heretical teachings of Episcopal Bishop James Pike, the Social Gospel Movement in the mainline Protestant churches, and the liturgical movement spawned by the dramatic liturgical revisions of Vatican II. Our Diocese of the Eastern United States is the same diocese first erected in the old AEC, the first of the modern so-called “Continuing Churches.”

Even in your short history, you’ve already divided several times. Apparently, the confessions haven’t helped to keep unity. Have these divisions resolved anything?

 

[JonNC]

Getting there. …